"Can God create a rock..."

a reply to: Huggiesunrise

Dear bittersweet clown, thanks for the compelling post.

"On the other hand asking if god can make and ice-cream sammich so large it couldn't eat it would be like trying to stir a pot with your dogs sense of humor."

If only we had the boundless joy, energy, and humor of Fido, then we would truly rule the world.
Reason can be such an albatross.

Wow what a great thread, reading your answers to the posters was a joy as well. We cannot know the mind or skills of God, it is impossible as finite beings to comprehend the infinite. I know that I do not know, to raggedly quote Socrates, So crates, as Ted would say. ;-)

a reply to: Diderot

To achieve ecstasy, we must surpass the summit and look down upon ourselves to see our place in this world.

i thought the point of surpassing the summit was to change our place in this world. seeking perfection is not about discovering why it is better to be imperfect...it just teaches you to hate that you are. which isnt really an unheard of theme.

a reply to: spy66

I believe I understood your point after clearing up my misinterpretation of your use of absolute. I was trying to understand why you were using math as a backdrop for your statements. I see that you want to organize the properties into sets which makes sense.

Here is a quote from my first post:

Of course, you could attempt to create a set and define all things within in that set to somehow encompass all things necessary for defining omnipotence.

This isn't too different from how you are constructing your absolute infinite set. It would require encoding intelligence and various other properties.

a reply to: Diderot

The human mind is still a confounded, superstitious mass of contradicting folly.

Be careful not to align the mass of contradictions too uniformly or your water will turn into ice.

A simple paradox is a titanium barrier that we have yet to pass, but one day we shall.

I'm inclined to agree.

a reply to: compressedFusion

This isn't too different from how you are constructing your absolute infinite set. It would require encoding intelligence and various other properties.

That is true. But this is also a part of mathematics. To try and fill in the empty Space to test if the end result is true?

a reply to: TzarChasm

Hello again.

"i thought the point of surpassing the summit was to change our place in this world. seeking perfection is not about discovering why it is better to be imperfect...it just teaches you to hate that you are. which isnt really an unheard of theme."

To begin, I take issue with the first keystroke of your response.
TzarChasm is worthy of a capitalized "I".
Can there possibly be a Tzar undeserving of the upper case?

But seriously, I try to avoid anything that teaches hatred.

a reply to: compressedFusion

"I'm inclined to agree."

Why do you make it so hard for me to disagree?

originally posted by: TzarChasm
what happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object?

A possible explanation: they cannot coexist logically in the same world, therefore could never meet.

Once a force carries the characteristic of "unstoppable", there is nothing that can stop it.

Once an object carries the characteristic of "immovable", there is nothing that can can move it.

originally posted by: Diderot
This classical paradox is a great example of the formidable shortcomings of human analytical thought. This stumbling block reveals our still primative nature.

I agreed with everything in your post, except this part. Could you please elaborate on these two sentences?

a reply to: Diderot

What's the difference between a mouse ! ??






\ The higher it spins - the fewer !

originally posted by: Diderot
a reply to: TzarChasm

Hello again.

"i thought the point of surpassing the summit was to change our place in this world. seeking perfection is not about discovering why it is better to be imperfect...it just teaches you to hate that you are. which isnt really an unheard of theme."

To begin, I take issue with the first keystroke of your response.
TzarChasm is worthy of a capitalized "I".
Can there possibly be a Tzar undeserving of the upper case?

But seriously, I try to avoid anything that teaches hatred.

i dont place a whole lot of importance in capitalization, tzar or no. the name wasnt supposed to be a title so much as a word play anyway.

hatred can become a product of perfection. why doesnt everyone recognize that you, and you alone, are the paragon of organized matter and a glittering speciment of existence that no one and nothing could hope to hold a candle to? thats what perfection is about. recognition. you dont just want to know what you are perfect, you want to be told. you want it to be universal fact. you want everything that lives and breathes to know perfection exists and it is you. acknowledgment is the point, otherwise it is pointless. there is no difference between king and pauper. except for how the universe flows around them according to their station. the point of perfection is to change your place so the universe stops and starts on account of your breathing. because you are just that pivotal of a being. and if it doesnt...you get upset. because that implies you are as significant and consequential as a cockroach and thats an affront to your perfectness. perfection tends to polarize a person's perspective...it is either compatible with you or it isnt. and if it isnt, well your perfect, so clearly it isnt you thats the problem right? so destroy it. if it isnt compatible...destroy it. and thats when hate blossoms.

starting to sound familiar?

a reply to: TzarChasm

If a person is absolute Perfect. That person would not have to be told or worshiped. He/she would already know what they are.

And he/she would see you for what You are. But since he/she is absolute Perfect, he/she would be absolute honest With you. They would not lie to you, because then they would not be absolute Perfect.

The problem of the matter is you. Not the once who are perfecrt.

originally posted by: spy66
a reply to: TzarChasm

If a person is absolute Perfect. That person would not have to be told or worshiped. He/she would already know what they are.

implying that the desire to be worshipped is a symptom of imperfection?

And he/she would see you for what You are. But since he/she is absolute Perfect, he/she would be absolute honest With you. They would not lie to you, because then they would not be absolute Perfect.

in all sincerity, i have (yet) another question. why does perfect have to mean all-knowing and all-powerful? is "perfect" short for "perfectly capable"? because in exalting perfection as the absolute peak of existence, it feels to me like you just hit the 'select all' key in an attempt to make a metaphysical concept more manageable in your skull. from where im sitting, you rob the word "perfect" of all meaning by injecting it with every meaning imaginable.

The problem of the matter is you. Not the once who are perfecrt.

i pity those who are perfect or imagine themselves to be perfect because they will never be truly satisfied. not until they have become the universe gazing upon itself with wonder and adoration at what a perfect universe it is. hey! hey you little guys down there! look up at me! i made you! i made you because i am perfect and i want you to notice! notice me and how perfect i am!

good grief.

a reply to: TzarChasm

i pity those who are perfect or imagine themselves to be perfect because they will never be truly satisfied.

Jesses. A person that is absolute Perfect is absolute neutral. A person who is Perfect have become all that he can become: HE IS PERFECT. He is truly satisfied.

A person who imagine him self to be Perfect is not Perfect. He is imperfect so he is never truly satesfied.


How can you even debate this? You have no knowledge of Perfect. You dont know what Perfect is.

I've been hearing the "God/Rock" argument since high school. Metaphysics is a slippery subject, Kant delivered some strong arguments against it, but it still around and may possibly help to clarify concepts.

a reply to: spy66

Jesses. A person that is absolute Perfect is absolute neutral. A person who is Perfect have become all that he can become: HE IS PERFECT. He is truly satisfied.

in which case, nothing. that person no longer exists because they now inhabit every atom in the universe and possess no individuality of their own. absolutely neutral. they have effectively vaporized.

How can you even debate this? You have no knowledge of Perfect. You dont know what Perfect is.

because you do? im exploring your idea of perfect here, not the official definition.

a reply to: Dark Ghost

originally posted by: Diderot
This classical paradox is a great example of the formidable shortcomings of human analytical thought. This stumbling block reveals our still primative nature.


" I agreed with everything in your post, except this part. Could you please elaborate on these two sentences?"

Certainly. The human mind is still primitive and barely excels the mind of our primate cousins. To measure the excellence of human achievement, we fall short when we consider the quality of our compassion for others.

The basic paradox of my thread confounds and confuses us. We cling to superstition and irrational emotion.

The human mind is capable of explaining any paradox. A wise soul admits their shortcomings.

For instance, you might notice that I misspelled "primitive" in my original post.

Does that mean that I am wise? No, just that I am smug.

a reply to: Timely

Clearly, the difference between a mouse
is the same difference between a duck.

Why a duck?

It's all in the soup.

a reply to: Diderot

If that is what you take away from my theory, then yes.

To answer your question, the Judeo-christian god can not create a ROCK that it cannot lift. Rock is just mass. Your god is above mass.

If god is eternal - there is no way it can create anything it cannot overcome. By christian faith god is everywhere so god would be the rock itself. God would be interacting with itself. Now if you think about this in absolutes (not sure about my word choice) If you view god as an infinity, it can create a separate infinity. There would be 2 infinities, and since they are both infinite, neither can best another. If you introduce a third infinity, then 2 infinities > 1 infinity. If god that single Infinity, it cannot best 2 of the same. In plain terms, God cannot create a rock that it cannot lift, but it CAN create 2 rocks that it would not be able to lift. But then again, if infinities i speak of are literally the same, then upon contact they would merge into 1 infinity again. If god cannot stop existing it must be maddening. You too can drive yourself mad just thinking about this. So my suggestion is: Don't think about it, thinking wont help you answer questions about this god. God said so itself - "i am" or w/e. stop questioning your own faith.

As for myself, i am very curious on this subject but... I know nothing about this god. There is no empirical data on the god, anywhere. Words written on a piece of paper are not enough because they do not have facts. Cannot take it up on "faith" because we are asking a defined question with set parameters. Faith just gives you an answer you want to hear, not an answer that is proven to be true. When we get some credible variables for god, we can use science to answer the question for you. But if one can actually meet god and get close enough to get some data, one might as well ask god the question. God would not lie to you.

Religion is funny. When you go against it in any way, sense or form you face a Brick wall.