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Arguing Religion and God - Why?

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posted on Jul, 22 2014 @ 09:59 AM
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Seeing heated and downright disrespectful posts here on ATS in regards to Religion and God.....

here is what I find interesting with threads arguing Religion and God with statistics, passages, percentages, and flawed logic.

Metaphysics, Religion, or (God) cannot be argued with logic, nor proven with it, well maybe it can, but it's called circular argumentation, meaning one passage is used to prove another, and it's invalid.

People either believe or they don't. Simple really.

Think about it for just one moment, you are trying to prove the existence of some being that may, or may not exist by pointing to texts written by men and using logic. smh

We were all born without any religious knowledge, only to be indoctrinated by it from our social peers, that have texts that were written by men.

Here is a question to ponder on.

Would we have the same beliefs we currently cling to, if we were not exposed to them?

Peace,

RT

edit on 22-7-2014 by Realtruth because: (no reason given)




posted on Jul, 22 2014 @ 10:07 AM
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You make a sound argument for agnosticism.



posted on Jul, 22 2014 @ 10:09 AM
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a reply to: Realtruth

The only reason I can find to argue about religion is when one group forces their belief/s on others... and when I say forces, I mean the use or threat of economic/physical force to coerce. An example would be ISIS in Iraq, where recently Christians in Mosul were told to convert, pay the jizya, leave town or be killed.



posted on Jul, 22 2014 @ 10:13 AM
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Intresting subject, found this....

No such thing as athiests?



posted on Jul, 22 2014 @ 10:15 AM
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originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: Realtruth

The only reason I can find to argue about religion is when one group forces their belief/s on others... and when I say forces, I mean the use or threat of economic/physical force to coerce. An example would be ISIS in Iraq, where recently Christians in Mosul were told to convert, pay the jizya, leave town or be killed.


There is no argumentation there, just some group forcing their wills upon another group.



posted on Jul, 22 2014 @ 10:16 AM
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a reply to: Realtruth

Do you really see a valid argument taking place? I don't.

I just see people testing and probing each other's faith and observing how they react.

Screaming at buses of children, bombing civilians, concentration camps for "outsiders", all the while walking around believing they are God's choice and victims of imaginary persecution. I can't stop myself from engaging this evil. Call it a hobby if you like.



posted on Jul, 22 2014 @ 10:18 AM
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originally posted by: Realtruth

originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: Realtruth

The only reason I can find to argue about religion is when one group forces their belief/s on others... and when I say forces, I mean the use or threat of economic/physical force to coerce. An example would be ISIS in Iraq, where recently Christians in Mosul were told to convert, pay the jizya, leave town or be killed.


There is no argumentation there, just some group forcing their wills upon another group.

I argue that it is wrong to force it.
ISIS (and anyone that does not disagree with them) obviously would argue that they are doing Allah's will and are right to do it.



posted on Jul, 22 2014 @ 10:18 AM
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originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: Realtruth

The only reason I can find to argue about religion is when one group forces their belief/s on others... and when I say forces, I mean the use or threat of economic/physical force to coerce. An example would be ISIS in Iraq, where recently Christians in Mosul were told to convert, pay the jizya, leave town or be killed.


I have been reading about that. That is religion at its worse. Just like the Catholic inquisitions and Catholic crusades. Makes me sick.

I feel sorry for the Christians over there, they are proper Christians, not the right wing bigots we have here in the west.



posted on Jul, 22 2014 @ 10:19 AM
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originally posted by: InverseLookingGlass

I just see people testing and probing each other's faith and observing how they react.



Blind Ignorance is a wonderful thing, well maybe not. lol

No one is actually trying to listen ever, just trying to out talk the other one. Butcherguy's post is the end result of breakdowns in their madness.

Great point star for you.



posted on Jul, 22 2014 @ 10:20 AM
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a reply to: Realtruth

I have never meet any non logical spiritual beings and the more I learn about the divine the more it makes sense. If it do not makes sense then it is probably because it is pushed down to the lowest version of human understanding instead of thought of on the level it should be thought on.



posted on Jul, 22 2014 @ 10:21 AM
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Whats even more hilarious is that the three abrahamic religions all worship the same god yet slaughter each other over it claiming that they are the chosen ones ..

Meh.. never will understand westerners and their religion ..



posted on Jul, 22 2014 @ 10:22 AM
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originally posted by: pennydrops

I have been reading about that. That is religion at its worse. Just like the Catholic inquisitions and Catholic crusades. Makes me sick.

I feel sorry for the Christians over there, they are proper Christians, not the right wing bigots we have here in the west.


All religion is hypocritical, and that would go for any dogma's as well, including science.

I am holier and mightier than thou. lol

Religious arrogance is what causes many wars, or should I say religious ignorance.



posted on Jul, 22 2014 @ 10:24 AM
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originally posted by: pennydrops

originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: Realtruth

The only reason I can find to argue about religion is when one group forces their belief/s on others... and when I say forces, I mean the use or threat of economic/physical force to coerce. An example would be ISIS in Iraq, where recently Christians in Mosul were told to convert, pay the jizya, leave town or be killed.


I have been reading about that. That is religion at its worse. Just like the Catholic inquisitions and Catholic crusades. Makes me sick.

I feel sorry for the Christians over there, they are proper Christians, not the right wing bigots we have here in the west.


Are you sure? Besides that being a No True Scotsman fallacy, how do you know that if you were to place the Christians in the same situation that ISIS is in now, they wouldn't behave the same way? Right now Christianity is a minority over there, so the Christians can't make too many waves. But when in charge, who's to say they'd act any differently? Looking at America and how Christians here push the envelope, it certainly seems like they'd swing closer to the ISIS method of conversion given enough leeway



posted on Jul, 22 2014 @ 10:25 AM
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a reply to: Realtruth

Humanity almost seems to have a genetic predisposition towards religion in one form or another. Possibly this is something of personality quirk/security blanket that allows us to carry on with our lives and gives us the illusion of hope and immortality to come after the toil of this existence never mind some kind of meaningful answer as to our existence and origins.

I strongly suspect that there is a rather more complicated and multi faceted answer through.

edit on 22-7-2014 by andy06shake because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 22 2014 @ 10:27 AM
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a reply to: Krazysh0t
Christians certainly have behaved badly in the past... as groups in power.
I think that is where the problem lies. Governments need to be secular.



posted on Jul, 22 2014 @ 10:30 AM
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originally posted by: butcherguy

I argue that it is wrong to force it.
ISIS (and anyone that does not disagree with them) obviously would argue that they are doing Allah's will and are right to do it.


Hence what logicians call "Blind Ignorance" or some refer to it as "Willful Ignorance"

Weak minds are easily led.


P.S. The "Weak minds" statement is not an attack, just an observation. I was raised a Catholic, but have since found myself being agnostic.

I do not like being told how to think and what I should believe in, because that is how it was written.




edit on 22-7-2014 by Realtruth because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 22 2014 @ 10:34 AM
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originally posted by: Expat888
Whats even more hilarious is that the three abrahamic religions all worship the same god yet slaughter each other over it claiming that they are the chosen ones ..

Meh.. never will understand westerners and their religion ..


If you get right down to brass tacks, all religions that are mono-theistic, have one creator, and the argument could be made that, the one creator is the same one in all religions. So Allah, Jahova, God, whomever, is the same entity. That encompasses almost all religions over the entire globe. So it only makes the killing in the name of (insert your deity) that much more absurd.

I suppose the killing needs to take place for population control, or to ensure our weapons keep doing their jobs, but to me, it just seem so pointless.

You rarely see to men fighting to the death over which beer is better. They just drink them both and smile.



posted on Jul, 22 2014 @ 10:37 AM
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a reply to: Realtruth

Some of the first instances of recorded religion involve Sun worship, this is actually rather close to the truth when one considers we are all indeed composed of stardust.


Then comes all the control constructs and do this or do that or i'll spank you crap with the added incentive of eternal damnation should you not wish to bend over and accept there version of God's will.

That right there is Man's hand at play.


This little vid raises some interesting points regarding religion or lack of for that matter. I think the author is also a member of ATS.

www.youtube.com...

Should probably add viewer discretion is advised regarding the above video.
LoL
edit on 22-7-2014 by andy06shake because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 22 2014 @ 10:57 AM
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originally posted by: butcherguy
a reply to: Krazysh0t
Christians certainly have behaved badly in the past... as groups in power.
I think that is where the problem lies. Governments need to be secular.



Secular with religious freedom left intact. A secular government that forces atheism on the populace is just as horrible as a non-secular one that pushes whatever religion of the day on its citizens.



posted on Jul, 22 2014 @ 11:07 AM
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I believe in God and find debates on ATS stimulating, learning from many here that have far greater insight than myself. I have no problems with those that are anti-religous or have different religous views as I consider skepticism and debate healthy. In science, religion or anything, If we didn't have debate we'd have dogmatism.

As to your question "Would we have the same beliefs we currently cling to, if we were not exposed to them?". We each have a belief system that is created by both internal and external influences. I use to be a total atheist until internal influences of a spiritual nature changed my belief system. If you see that as illogical so be it, your belief system doesn't worry me the slightest.

edit on 22 7 2014 by glend because: (no reason given)



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