It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Creationist Ken Ham calls to end space program because aliens are going to hell anyway

page: 6
21
<< 3  4  5    7  8  9 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jul, 23 2014 @ 12:43 PM
link   
a reply to: Another_Nut

that is a new one I must admit...

You can become Jesus eh... How exactly does that work anyways?





posted on Jul, 23 2014 @ 12:48 PM
link   
a reply to: Akragon


You can become Jesus eh... How exactly does that work anyways?

I think that he's confused about Mormon doctrine.

Just like he's confused about Ken Ham doctrine, lol.



posted on Jul, 23 2014 @ 12:52 PM
link   
a reply to: adjensen

Because Ias I have outlined above he has a point

But because hes an idiot people use him to bs and bash

He has a point its not his fault he is a idiot

a old saying

Even a broke clock is right twice a day

His assertion is not new

And taken with what we think we understand abiut the universe how do we reconcile drake and fermi?

Ham may not be smart enought to frame the question correctly but the questions are there

His oiint is simple . Your thread is am attempt to bash

Title should read

Ham believes aliens dont exist and calls for an end to searching



posted on Jul, 23 2014 @ 12:54 PM
link   
a reply to: Akragon

This is a mormon belief

The more pure u are the higher station In the afterlife

The pinnacle being granted their own planet to oversee as jesus oversees earth



posted on Jul, 23 2014 @ 12:58 PM
link   
a reply to: adjensen

That is explained to me by exs family

Unless yiu are mormon I will take their words over yours

Maybe its not me who is mistaken?

Or maybe not all mormons belive the same thing

Again u try to lump all into yiur preceptions

edit on pm720143112America/ChicagoWed, 23 Jul 2014 12:59:02 -0500_7000000 by Another_Nut because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 23 2014 @ 01:03 PM
link   
a reply to: Another_Nut

So you're Mormon then?

Or you just like their belief system?

Isn't it against their beliefs to engage in debates.... ye know, Agree quickly with your adversary?




posted on Jul, 23 2014 @ 01:09 PM
link   
a reply to: Akragon

I have an obsession with all religion

I have read the book of Mormon along with most other religious texts

My twins family is mormon all 8 uncles and theirs prodigious offspring

My twins are being taken to a mormon church

I like some of theiir practices like no priests. Everyone takes a turn .

Eta I am I guess agnostic

I wont take a side yet but I do enjoy the thought exercises


edit on pm720143101America/ChicagoWed, 23 Jul 2014 13:11:56 -0500_7000000 by Another_Nut because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 23 2014 @ 01:14 PM
link   
a reply to: Another_Nut

Yeah, I haven't got through the BOM quite yet... I kinda abandoned reading it once I found out they ripped off the KJV verbatim in one of their books and claimed Jesus said it to the Nephites

Interesting that when Jesus appeared to them he was carrying his own KJV bible




posted on Jul, 23 2014 @ 01:24 PM
link   
a reply to: Another_Nut


Because Ias I have outlined above he has a point

What? What do you think his point is?

You keep saying that he doesn't believe that aliens can be saved because they don't exist, when he wrote exactly the opposite on his blog -- he believes that aliens don't exist because they can't be saved and God wouldn't create a species that would be eternally damned with no chance of salvation.


That is explained to me by exs family

Unless yiu are mormon I will take their words over yours

Mormons believe that, if they achieve the highest level of salvation, they will be made god over a planet. Your claim that they would become like "Jesus overseeing earth" is wrong because they don't believe that Jesus was God -- he was the firstborn child of God and one of his many wives.


Christ, the Firstborn, was the mightiest of all the spirit children of the Father. (Doctrine and Covenants 93:21-23)



posted on Jul, 23 2014 @ 01:30 PM
link   
a reply to: adjensen

Yiu are just playing word gamesto continue your ham bashing

Good luck to yiu

I can and have admitted when I was in error

Because I have no problem with my fallibility as a human

not all of us can do that yet



posted on Jul, 23 2014 @ 02:31 PM
link   

On tonight, live from 10PM Eastern time!

Show thread with listening information



posted on Jul, 23 2014 @ 03:01 PM
link   

originally posted by: Akragon


Isn't it against their beliefs to engage in debates.... ye know, Agree quickly with your adversary?



No, at least not any of the ones I've spent time with. The drummer in my band "married into it" about 20 years ago so I got to witness a lot of it first hand from their normal Sunday services to the super insane baptisms as well as engaging the missionaries in debate.

Knowing that I was an agnostic with atheistic leanings and an Anthropology background they used to have me go up against the missionaries to get them used to potentially hostile encounters during their door to door conversion attempts.

F It was always an interesting dialogue because they were usually young kids, 18-20 who were pretty firmly entrenched in their faith. I hesitate to use brain washing as an analogy but its pretty close. Every once in a while, particularly when going at it from a scientific perspective, you would catch one wavering a little and wonder if I might not be full of it which would lead to them asking for further clarification.

I found that if you were respectful to them and their views they were fairly open to hearing my side. Slightly different tactic than I tend to employ on ATS sometimes so perhaps I should add it back to my tool kit lol



posted on Jul, 24 2014 @ 10:17 AM
link   

originally posted by: olaru12

originally posted by: adjensen


I'll leave that to the Jehovah's Witnesses, who are no doubt contemplating building spaceships to one day drop copies of The Watchtower on E.T.'s doorstep, lol.



With that little gem you just confirmed my suspicions that a pervasive "holier than thou" arrogant attitude permeates Christianity.

Is it any wonder why many of us on this site have lost our faith when we continually see the fragmentation of those that are trying to convince us of their contact with divinity; and why we should follow them.

What other denomination do you feel like making fun of? Got any Mormon jokes?

Take a chill pill man, it better they drop The Watchtower than let RC Church run free with there young children



posted on Jul, 24 2014 @ 12:11 PM
link   
Before the Catholic Church started bringing aliens into the picture I thought most of religion wouldn't have a rock to stand on in light of full disclosure. I thought for sure everyone on the planet, regardless of creed, would immediately have a cog thrown into the wheel that is everything we know.
I think the Church must have saw it coming though and are working it into their storyline as we speak.

The idea that another civilization would have to come across OUR planet to hear the good news and be saved is ludicrous. The idea that the history of this planet and the religious system set up on this planet would be central and essential to everyone else in the galaxy would surely have raised many more eyebrows in the future if not for the "preparatory" messages of now...assuming they are actually preparing us for anything.

Because the way I see it, our history and everything that's been built on it (ie. religion) is relevant to this planet specifically and no one outside our planet could possibly be hurt by not knowing the 'stuff of here'. God would have seen fit to have every civilization out there have the experiences and history needed on their own unique planet and it is pretty dumb to think they NEED ours.

Believing that every major belief system in the world (and now the universe I guess) all funnel up to the same source, it is a bummer to think that all many will continue to see are the differences and therefor the justification to continue fighting and converting.

It is funny, we hardly ever consider an ET that shows up to spread THEIR version of the 'good news'. I'm sure there could be converts both ways...which I think is perfectly fine.



posted on Jul, 24 2014 @ 04:20 PM
link   

originally posted by: awakendhybrid
Before the Catholic Church started bringing aliens into the picture I thought most of religion wouldn't have a rock to stand on in light of full disclosure. I thought for sure everyone on the planet, regardless of creed, would immediately have a cog thrown into the wheel that is everything we know.
I think the Church must have saw it coming though and are working it into their storyline as we speak.

The idea that another civilization would have to come across OUR planet to hear the good news and be saved is ludicrous. The idea that the history of this planet and the religious system set up on this planet would be central and essential to everyone else in the galaxy would surely have raised many more eyebrows in the future if not for the "preparatory" messages of now...assuming they are actually preparing us for anything.

Because the way I see it, our history and everything that's been built on it (ie. religion) is relevant to this planet specifically and no one outside our planet could possibly be hurt by not knowing the 'stuff of here'. God would have seen fit to have every civilization out there have the experiences and history needed on their own unique planet and it is pretty dumb to think they NEED ours.

Believing that every major belief system in the world (and now the universe I guess) all funnel up to the same source, it is a bummer to think that all many will continue to see are the differences and therefor the justification to continue fighting and converting.

It is funny, we hardly ever consider an ET that shows up to spread THEIR version of the 'good news'. I'm sure there could be converts both ways...which I think is perfectly fine.


If I were to assume for the sake of argument that the accounts of contact with E.T's are legitimate, then I can safely conclude that their version of the 'good news' as you call it, their belief is the exact same as that which is preached in the new age movement. I know for sure that this is the same message that the catholic church is preparing to include in their doctrine as well. When I see the Pope preaching unity between all religions, that is all the evidence any real Bible believing Christian should need, for wide is the gate to the pit of hell. If the various E.T messages are correct, then the Bible cannot possibly be right by default.

I don't personally need to contemplate the possibility of intelligent life in space. The belief in life in space is based entirely on the belief in evolution. And I believe that this was Ken Hams entire point and is the main reason why Christians in general are diametrically opposed to even contemplating the possibility of E.T life. So before kicking the can down the road about E.T's, those who believe in it will first have to prove, by the scientific method of observation, and not by circumstantial evidence, how life arose on earth, as everything that is propagated about alien life is based on faulty notions of materialism.

Case in point - Aliens and Evolution:



edit on 24-7-2014 by BlackManINC because: (no reason given)

edit on 24-7-2014 by BlackManINC because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 24 2014 @ 05:43 PM
link   
a reply to: BlackManINC



If I were to assume for the sake of argument that the accounts of contact with E.T's are legitimate, then I can safely conclude that their version of the 'good news' as you call it, their belief is the exact same as that which is preached in the new age movement.


Ha. Well yea, the idea that it is already happening now via those messages had crossed my mind, but I didn't feel it necessary to go into.




The belief in life in space is based entirely on the belief in evolution.


Why must these ideas be synonymous with each other? Supposing that he did create life all throughout the universe would he not give every civilization the information needed to choose? We have ours and we fight about it every day, but where do we assume that God had to tell us that others of his creation were out there seeded with the same message: "seek me and I will reveal myself to you".




I know for sure that this is the same message that the catholic church is preparing to include in their doctrine as well.


Hm, that'll be interesting to see play out if true. In the end we all have to make the choice.



posted on Jul, 24 2014 @ 06:21 PM
link   
a reply to: BlackManINC

I agree with AwakenedHybrid, that God could have created life throughout the Universe. He could have also created using evolution.

These are not mutually exclusive concepts.

You have made assumptions that limit God IMHO.



posted on Jul, 24 2014 @ 07:36 PM
link   

originally posted by: awakendhybrid


Why must these ideas be synonymous with each other? Supposing that he did create life all throughout the universe would he not give every civilization the information needed to choose? We have ours and we fight about it every day, but where do we assume that God had to tell us that others of his creation were out there seeded with the same message: "seek me and I will reveal myself to you".




originally posted by: zardust
a reply to: BlackManINC

I agree with AwakenedHybrid, that God could have created life throughout the Universe. He could have also created using evolution.

These are not mutually exclusive concepts.

You have made assumptions that limit God IMHO.



Why are we even bringing God into this discussion in the first place? Which "god" are we referring to anyway? This is the question that has never even been asked regarding life in space. This isnt about limiting what God is capable of, this is about what the Bible does and does not say. If you are indeed talking about Yahweh, then there is no reason at all for a Christian to even contemplate the idea of E.T's in the first place since the Bible is silent on the issue. This isn't about what you believe should be true, this is about applying the scientific method of observation to religion. If it cannot be observed that E.T life was included in the creation account of the Bible, you don't than conclude that there must be life in space just because it should exist in your mind just because you think God should have done so. Gods ways and thoughts are not the same as ours.

This goes for the theistic evolutionists as well. If it cannot be observed in the Bible that God created life by Darwinian means, then you have no legitimate reason at all to include this pagan belief in the Bible just because you want to feel accepted by the heathen. Take away or add anything to the words written in the Bible for your convenience and you shall be removed from the book of life. Assuming that there is life in space, there is apparently this widely held belief that Christians are scratching there heads as to how an E.T would be effected by the fall in Eden. Adam and Eve brought sin into the world by their disobedience, and the curse was universal on all creation, not just on earth. There would be no need for God to create a new heaven as well as a new earth in the end times in the first place if the curse was not universal. Its really this simple when it comes down to it.
edit on 24-7-2014 by BlackManINC because: (no reason given)

edit on 24-7-2014 by BlackManINC because: (no reason given)

edit on 24-7-2014 by BlackManINC because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 24 2014 @ 09:18 PM
link   
a reply to: BlackManINC

Do you believe in angels? Can you tell me when they were created? This coming from the bible please. Oh its not there, then there's no way any christian should even be contemplating angels exist. BTW I"m not equating angels and aliens like so many. Just pointing out that the bible never speaks of any creation of angels. Not to mention angel means messenger, and often refers to men. But lets keep on topic.

Its not mentioned in the creation story. Which one is that? There are a few. Im going to guess you think they are the same, the first is an overview and the second is more specific right? Except for a little hitch. You see the second narrative has Adam being created before any shrub or plant had sprung from the ground. Yet just a paragraph earlier in the same account (supposedly) it says man was created on the 6th day, and plants were created on the second day.

I personally don't have a problem with this because I don't take this literally, and neither did anyone until the last 200 years or so. These are ancient poems, allegorical stories, not literal events. It is a modern invention to believe that Genesis 1 is a literal creation account.

You may not like that interpretation, but your literalism has to deal with the fact that Genesis 1 contradicts Genesis 2.

For me, the entire book is spiritual,Paul said the letter kills but the Spirit gives life. Reading by the letter, or literal does nothing but kill. It is not life giving.




posted on Jul, 24 2014 @ 10:14 PM
link   

originally posted by: zardust
a reply to: BlackManINC

Do you believe in angels? Can you tell me when they were created? This coming from the bible please. Oh its not there, then there's no way any christian should even be contemplating angels exist. BTW I"m not equating angels and aliens like so many. Just pointing out that the bible never speaks of any creation of angels. Not to mention angel means messenger, and often refers to men. But lets keep on topic.


The creation account in Genesis doesn't concern angels because angels were created before the physical creation of our universe as clearly described in the book of Job. When God was creating the heavens and the earth, the angels were already with God shouting for joy. This being the case, and knowing that God is eternal, there is no way to know how long they've been around before the first and second heaven. And lets get this one thing straight about the word "alien", it simply means that which is not indigenous to a specific location. I already went over this before in detail. Everything we know about angels describes them, scientifically, as extra-dimensional , or celestial, that technically makes them alien, in this case meaning not indigenous to our sphere of existence, our universe. Angels are far more than a mere extra-terrestrial. The term E.T, however, is a term ascribed to something not indigenous to our planet but originates from another planet within our sphere of existence, or our universe. The terms extra-dimensional and extra-terrestrial are two entirely different things when it comes to origins. The Bible speaks nothing of the latter definition.


Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? - Job 38:4-7



originally posted by: zardust

Its not mentioned in the creation story. Which one is that? There are a few. Im going to guess you think they are the same, the first is an overview and the second is more specific right? Except for a little hitch. You see the second narrative has Adam being created before any shrub or plant had sprung from the ground. Yet just a paragraph earlier in the same account (supposedly) it says man was created on the 6th day, and plants were created on the second day.


First off, dry land and plant life was created on the third day, not the second day. And, can you point to me exactly what "contradiction" you are referring to because I don't see it? The first narrative has Adam being created on the sixth day and plant life on the third day. Here is what the second narrative actually says that you claim is a contradiction. I will apply basic reading comprehension skills and rightly divide the word of God, no Hebrew translations needed.


Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.

2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,

5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the Lord God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground.

6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.


7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

8 And the Lord God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

9 And out of the ground made the Lord God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

10 And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads.

11 The name of the first is Pison: that is it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold;

12 And the gold of that land is good: there is bdellium and the onyx stone.

13 And the name of the second river is Gihon: the same is it that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia.

14 And the name of the third river is Hiddekel: that is it which goeth toward the east of Assyria. And the fourth river is Euphrates.

15 And the Lord God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.


In other words, verse 5 acknowledges that plant life was already present with the emergence of dry land before Adam and Eve as Genesis 1 stated. Verse 8, however, is referring to the creation of the garden after Adam and Eve, a specific location that was created for Adam and Eve to dwell in, and as I show you, the Bible makes it very clear that it was indeed a specific location. Genesis 1 & 2 only contradicts itself to those who want to be intellectually dishonest, of which this website is full of. If the creation account wasn't literal, then neither was the fall of Adam, and henceforth our redemption through Jesus Christ.






edit on 24-7-2014 by BlackManINC because: (no reason given)



new topics

top topics



 
21
<< 3  4  5    7  8  9 >>

log in

join