Christmas

So we are about to experience a very merry Christmas again but I have a few questions.

1. No one knows when Christ was born. Why do we celebrate his birth at this time of year.

2. If we do celebrate Christmas as the Birth of Christ, why do we incorporate the Christmas tree and father nick (Santa) (pagan figures) as well? From what I know, the decoration of the Christmas tree stems back from druid tradition. How the hell did it end up as Christmas tradition?

3. Why share gifts? Where did this come from? Is it because of the story of Christ and the 3 wise men? How can that relate to giving presents to each other? Possibly we should be giving offerings to churches instead?

4. Another theory is that Santa clause is actually an Satan clause! Sounds funny but what if it is true? What if Christmas is divided into 2. Some people worship Christ and the others worship unwittingly each year Satan! Blows ya mind.

Tell me if Christmas is some big religious conspiracy!!

or we could just sit under the tree and open presents and be happy about it...but I've never even thought about your point #4...twist the letters around, and there you go...maybe the Jehovah Witnesses have it right...

Originally posted by shmick25
Tell me if Christmas is some big religious conspiracy!!

Disclaimer: this is just my opinion and not meant to indict any specific Christian religion.

How does a religious organization get it's members to stop practicing certain "pagan" traditions? Answer: They don't, you incorporate the pagan tradition into your religion and require them to go to church.

Here are a few pre-Christian traditions were the similarities are pretty evident:

In ancient Babylon, the feast of the Son of Isis (Goddess of Nature) was celebrated on December 25. Raucous partying, gluttonous eating and drinking, and gift-giving were traditions of this feast.

In Rome, the Winter Solstice was celebrated many years before the birth of Christ. The Romans called their winter holiday Saturnalia, honoring Saturn, the God of Agriculture. In January, they observed the Kalends of January, which represented the triumph of life over death. This whole season was called Dies Natalis Invicti Solis, the Birthday of the Unconquered Sun. The festival season was marked by much merrymaking. It is in ancient Rome that the tradition of the Mummers was born. The Mummers were groups of costumed singers and dancers who traveled from house to house entertaining their neighbors. From this, the Christmas tradition of caroling was born.

In northern Europe, many other traditions that we now consider part of Christian worship were begun long before the participants had ever heard of Christ. The pagans of northern Europe celebrated the their own winter solstice, known as Yule. Yule was symbolic of the pagan Sun God, Mithras, being born, and was observed on the shortest day of the year. As the Sun God grew and matured, the days became longer and warmer. It was customary to light a candle to encourage Mithras, and the sun, to reappear next year.

The entire article can be found here

B.

Originally posted by shmick25

4. Another theory is that Santa clause is actually an Satan clause!

Sounds funny but what if it is true? What if Christmas is divided into 2. Some people worship Christ and the others worship unwittingly each year Satan! Blows ya mind.

Shmick I am starting to agree with your Satan Claws idea. Bare with me here, but his got a red suit, his obese (no offence to fat ppl) a sign of gluttony a cardinal sin, his got a slave army of sub human demons (Elfs), and is a known home invader! Parents encourage their kids to pray and write to Satan Claws so he knows what present to give them! And to top it off we leave offerings of milk and cookies for him!

This obviously blasphemes ritual needs to be brought to a halt, BAN Christmas I SAY!

You could be celebrating the birthday of Isis. Christianity is built on egyptian mythology.

I have a big problem with how commercial Christmas is getting anyway. If anything it has become a big business conspiracy to force us to buy expensive stuff at the same time of year every year.
It kind've makes me angry that I've actually heard people saying "I have to buy Christmas". How do you "buy" Christmas?
Sometimes I want to rebel about "Santa's Claws" being in my wallet.

Researchers have determined the Date of Jesus Birth as the 1st of March 7BC and his 'official' birthday until 314AD as the 15th of September.

In 314AD the Roman Emporer Constantine the great changed the date to the 25th of December to coincide the Roman Sun Festival of Saturnalia, on this day of the festival it was customary to sacrifice a bull to commemorate the birth of Deus Sol Invictus, the all conquering Sun.

at the time of Constantines change of date the birth in question was
celebrated on 6 Jan. . so if you dont like 25 Dec there are 3 other choices.

Originally posted by elaine
I have a big problem with how commercial Christmas is getting anyway. If anything it has become a big business conspiracy to force us to buy expensive stuff at the same time of year every year.

Ditto that Elaine. I can onlyassume that we are urged to buy in excess for Chirtmas to keep consumer debt going. Debt makes the world go 'round

The reason there are gifts and santa clause is because Saint Nicholos would give presents to poor families and buy slaves to set them free. Someon just changed saint nick to santa. I never likd that though. I think christmas should be to celebrate the birth of our savior and good will towards men(and women). Its kinda silly how non christians celebrate christmas. They shouldnt be allowed to do that.

Originally posted by elaine
I have a big problem with how commercial Christmas is getting anyway. If anything it has become a big business conspiracy to force us to buy expensive stuff at the same time of year every year.
It kind've makes me angry that I've actually heard people saying "I have to buy Christmas". How do you "buy" Christmas?
Sometimes I want to rebel about "Santa's Claws" being in my wallet.

Yes, this is really all a modern "Christmas" has been about. A scam to get you to go out and spend "charge" money that you don't have "debt". It usually makes the stores happy, but this year because of everybody's happiness with the economy. the stores aren't doing as well as expected. I won't be buying anything this year because I am the Scrooge.
so, I am happy.

Originally posted by shmick25


1. No one knows when Christ was born. Why do we celebrate his birth at this time of year.

(BTW the following is supported by each of the three Catholic priests at my school as true) The date of Christmas (the 25th) was one of the early church's attempts to erase Pagan culture in place of their own. Yule was on the 25th centuries before the change.

2. If we do celebrate Christmas as the Birth of Christ, why do we incorporate the Christmas tree and father nick (Santa) (pagan figures) as well? From what I know, the decoration of the Christmas tree stems back from druid tradition. How the hell did it end up as Christmas tradition?

The Christmas tree is an adaptation of the Pagan "Yule Log" which is still ritualized today. The Yule log is, of course, a log, which is often decorated and set on fire in memorial of the gods. Another Christian takeover.

3. Why share gifts? Where did this come from? Is it because of the story of Christ and the 3 wise men? How can that relate to giving presents to each other? Possibly we should be giving offerings to churches instead?

I think I heard an explanation a while ago but I can't remember what was said.

4. Another theory is that Santa clause is actually an Satan clause!

Sounds funny but what if it is true? What if Christmas is divided into 2. Some people worship Christ and the others worship unwittingly each year Satan! Blows ya mind.

I like this theory! Kudos

Its all poppy-cock... lol
Its all symbolism; all religeon and materialism is symbolism.
Our thoughts are even nonesense chatter.
Jesus wasn't born in the past.... stupid....
the past is a concept.. so is the future... we are eternally stuck in the present.

Laugh at me, go ahead. Give me physical proof of the past, or future... you can't. I can show you God very simply.... Clap your hands... thats "God".
God doesn't have a name, no one was before him to measure or name him/her.
Wake Up I tell you, this nonesense you live is killing you... Rest in Jesus Christ... Rest in God... Rest in Time... the Present never changes... it is the best gift.


edit: ... Look at the "coincidences"
God is eternal, unchanging..... So is the present.

[edit on 4/12/04 by dnero6911]

Originally posted by Croat69
The reason there are gifts and santa clause is because Saint Nicholos would give presents to poor families and buy slaves to set them free. Someon just changed saint nick to santa. I never likd that though. I think christmas should be to celebrate the birth of our savior and good will towards men(and women). Its kinda silly how non christians celebrate christmas. They shouldnt be allowed to do that.

I agree with ya. I think the name change was because so many children..missing the two front teeth...could say santa easier..lol
I buy only as much as I can afford, and make as much as my hands can make for everyone around me. Only because I love them. We have a wonderfull dinner together shortly after saying grace.....go figure...hahahaha
It very well could be the wrong DOB of The Lord, but as many traditions remain, old habits are hard to change. Besides, i'm sure that God can see into the hearts of many who actually use this holiday as it was meant to be, and smiles down upon us with pride in his heart.

Midwinter is a depressing time of year. Cold, damp, lifeless trees, little birdsong, even less sunshine. Miserable.

So why not have a big party to celebrate the solstice, the lengthening days, and to give you something to look forward to?

Basically Christmas - and all it's antecedents - come down to that.

As has already being mentioned, the Christian celebration of the birth of Christs was made December 25th in line with the Church's habit of taking over pre-existing festivities. Almost all other aspects of the modern festival derive from older, pagan, traditions or Victorian invention - the later including the ridiculous notion of a 'white Christmas' (well, ridiculous here in England anyway )

Hi All.

Thanks for the more accurate background of the history of xmas. I find it amazing that there are so many different customs and traditions tied up in the one day of year... xmas. From what I have heard, Easter is another double edged sword. Celebrating the resurrection of Christ and then Easter rabbits and chocolate eggs. One pagan one Christian. Seems like there is always a ying and yang to each occasion.

So I have this question for you. Say you are a Christian. And you have now learnt the true heritage of what Christmas represents and that it really is not that biblical but rather pagan. Does it now make it wrong (as you are denying ignorance) to celebrate Christmas? What do you think? Should Christians celebrate a pagan festival?

We might as well rename it "December Sinning." Everyone, including myself, just gets really greedy and eats way too much for the purpose of big bussiness. I think it should remain religious, but no one can let go of "Satan" Clause. Saint Nick was just a very charitable person who gave to the needy, not a red fat man. The only people who get presents now are the people who aren't needy.

I keep praying that SantaJesus will bring me a full armed ME262 and Dani Ashe for Christmas...............but it never happens.

Christmas is a big buisness for (gifts of all kind, party dresses, food, alcohol) economy in general....

Why we all like christmas, because we are on vacation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and we drink and eat

Nobody gives a crap about "why" hahahahahaha

I'm so anxious to be on 1 week vacation and sleep late in the morning!

so why is easter the celebration of the alleged resurection now at spring equinox instaed of at passover as is clearly stated in the cannonical gospels?

maybe the writers didnt know when it happened ? or maybe it is as Pope sylvester said, " salvation is a matter for Constantine not Jesus Christ."