It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Ukrainian Su-25 warplane detected heading toward Malaysian Boeing

page: 9
38
<< 6  7  8    10  11  12 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jul, 21 2014 @ 03:41 PM
link   

originally posted by: LarryLove
a reply to: rustyclutch

Wrong. ATS members are doing what they do best, jumping at conspiratorial straws in the hope they strike lucky. The 'facts' being paraded in this thread aren't facts. Members' egos are centric to their posts and not what has really happened. What we know is: 1) a commercial plane was downed via a surface-to-air missile system (a system that could very well have been looted from Ukrainian weapons stores or supplied by Russia, 2) there is video evidence of separatists walking away with what looks very much like one Black Box and of them desecrating the crime scene, 3) no effort was made to contain and protect the crime scene even when realising that a commercial airliner has been shot down, 4) efforts by international observers/crime scene investigators to inspect the wreckage have been blocked, 5) not all bodies have been accounted for and/or cannot be accounted for because Russia is calling the shots when they have no right to. Finally, the footage of the separatists desecrating the crash site and treating the dead and their belongings with little if any dignity is truly disgusting.


I posted a news article with statements by military experts to be presented as evidence against an international crime which I am sure will be scrutinized and has to pass inspection. Yes. I am willing to take them at their word until evidence proves otherwise. Innocent until proven guilty. It's funny how thats a strange concept to Americans. The american government is providing no proof. The people arguing in this thread are providing no proof. If you can't substantiate your claims with anything that makes you a liar. Especially when all other evidence presented is to the contrary of your statements. That makes everyone accusing Russia a liar right now. If I was being called a liar I would present evidence to the contrary. Kind of like Russia did. That's how you expose the true liars. You ask them for their proof. In threads and at the international level.




posted on Jul, 21 2014 @ 03:42 PM
link   

originally posted by: demus
a reply to: LarryLove

oh please tell us should they have left black box laying in the field?

should they have left the bodies of deceased on the sun to rot?



They did leave the bodies in the field and the investigators should have been called in immediately to deal with the recovery of the Black Box. Best reports suggest the Black Box is now in Moscow.



posted on Jul, 21 2014 @ 03:45 PM
link   

originally posted by: LarryLove

originally posted by: demus
a reply to: LarryLove

oh please tell us should they have left black box laying in the field?

should they have left the bodies of deceased on the sun to rot?



They did leave the bodies in the field and the investigators should have been called in immediately to deal with the recovery of the Black Box. Best reports suggest the Black Box is now in Moscow.


What they did after the crash is irrelevant to who shot it down. You mad they didn't let the Ukrainians secure the site? In the middle of a civil war? You thought they were just going to let the government that bombs them daily right on in huh? LOL. The world doesn't always work the way you think it should. Maybe they didn't want kiev getting their hands on those black boxes. Maybe some people did come loot some corpses. Doesn't mean they shot the plane out of the sky. Where is the evidence of them shooting a plane out of the sky? They were accused as soon as it went down. What were these claims based off of? What are YOUR claims based off of? You have proven the crime of graverobbing so far.
edit on 21-7-2014 by rustyclutch because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 21 2014 @ 03:47 PM
link   

originally posted by: rustyclutch

originally posted by: LarryLove

originally posted by: demus
a reply to: LarryLove

oh please tell us should they have left black box laying in the field?

should they have left the bodies of deceased on the sun to rot?



They did leave the bodies in the field and the investigators should have been called in immediately to deal with the recovery of the Black Box. Best reports suggest the Black Box is now in Moscow.


What they did after the crash is irrelevant to who shot it down. You mad they didn't let the Ukrainians secure the site? In the middle of a civil war? You thought they were just going to let the government that bombs them daily right on huh? LOL. The world doesn't always work the way you think it should. Maybe they didn't want kiev getting their hands on those black boxes. Maybe some people did come loot some corpses. Doesn't mean they shot the plane out of the sky. Where is the evidence of them shooting a plane out of the sky? They were accused as soon as it went down. What were these claims based off of? What are you claims based off of? You have proved the crime of graverobbing so far.


What they did immediately after the event is entirely relevant. What we now have is a contaminated crime scene.

Edit: we need that crime scene as intact as possible to determine who shot the plane down. Black Boxes disappearing into separatist hands and bodies removed … come on. They also went through luggage looking for any other electronic devices.
edit on 21-7-2014 by LarryLove because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 21 2014 @ 03:50 PM
link   
a reply to: LarryLove

The United States doesn't need anything on the ground to prove what happened. The russians proved it wasn't them without anyone on the ground. I'm not really getting your point. They could release satellite imagery of everything that happened in that area a half hour before and a half hour after that crash. The fact that they haven't speaks volumes. All the spies they have over there and they can't provide anything of any substance.
edit on 21-7-2014 by rustyclutch because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 21 2014 @ 03:50 PM
link   

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: rustyclutch

The maximum ceiling of 23,000 feet is for a clean configuration, meaning nothing hanging on the wings. If you start adding weapons that ceiling goes down.

Maximum altitudes, and speeds are set under very precise conditions. No weapons or fuel tanks, and sometimes not even a full load of fuel. So while it might be able to briefly, it can't with weapons on board.


What if the SU was configured so that it could take it out?

Who said it had to Catch up. What if the Su was already there waiting. The Mh17 diverted of the coridor to the North, probably exactly where the Su was waiting.



posted on Jul, 21 2014 @ 03:50 PM
link   

originally posted by: LarryLove

originally posted by: demus
a reply to: LarryLove

oh please tell us should they have left black box laying in the field?

should they have left the bodies of deceased on the sun to rot?



They did leave the bodies in the field and the investigators should have been called in immediately to deal with the recovery of the Black Box. Best reports suggest the Black Box is now in Moscow.

news flash for you:
online.wsj.com...://onli ne.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304282604580043382126419298.html



The transfer of the so-called black boxes was scheduled to take place at about 9 p.m. local time Monday in Donetsk, Ukraine, according to the Malaysia prime minister, under the agreement negotiated between Mr. Najib and Alexander Borodai, a rebel leader in eastern Ukraine.



posted on Jul, 21 2014 @ 03:52 PM
link   

originally posted by: demus

originally posted by: LarryLove

originally posted by: demus
a reply to: LarryLove

oh please tell us should they have left black box laying in the field?

should they have left the bodies of deceased on the sun to rot?



They did leave the bodies in the field and the investigators should have been called in immediately to deal with the recovery of the Black Box. Best reports suggest the Black Box is now in Moscow.

news flash for you:
online.wsj.com...://onli ne.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304282604580043382126419298.html



The transfer of the so-called black boxes was scheduled to take place at about 9 p.m. local time Monday in Donetsk, Ukraine, according to the Malaysia prime minister, under the agreement negotiated between Mr. Najib and Alexander Borodai, a rebel leader in eastern Ukraine.


Then that is good. However, it should of happened sooner.



posted on Jul, 21 2014 @ 03:53 PM
link   
So what evidence exists to prove without question that the Russian didn't have a hand in this — directly or indirectly?



posted on Jul, 21 2014 @ 03:54 PM
link   

originally posted by: LarryLove

originally posted by: demus

originally posted by: LarryLove

originally posted by: demus
a reply to: LarryLove

oh please tell us should they have left black box laying in the field?

should they have left the bodies of deceased on the sun to rot?



They did leave the bodies in the field and the investigators should have been called in immediately to deal with the recovery of the Black Box. Best reports suggest the Black Box is now in Moscow.

news flash for you:
online.wsj.com...://onli ne.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304282604580043382126419298.html



The transfer of the so-called black boxes was scheduled to take place at about 9 p.m. local time Monday in Donetsk, Ukraine, according to the Malaysia prime minister, under the agreement negotiated between Mr. Najib and Alexander Borodai, a rebel leader in eastern Ukraine.


Then that is good. However, it should of happened sooner.


sooner?

the most important thing at the moment is that the black boxes haven't disappeared.

it's not like black box have an expiration date or anything...



posted on Jul, 21 2014 @ 03:55 PM
link   

originally posted by: LarryLove
So what evidence exists to prove without question that the Russian didn't have a hand in this — directly or indirectly?

Russia is the one being accused. I believe the burden of proof lies on the accuser. You can't accuse someone of a crime without proof.



posted on Jul, 21 2014 @ 03:56 PM
link   

originally posted by: LarryLove
So what evidence exists to prove without question that the Russian didn't have a hand in this — directly or indirectly?


what evidence exists to prove that Russians have something to do with this?

(rabid attacks of Hillary Clinton, John Kerry, Cameron etc + Obama threatening sanctions etc is not counting as evidence...)



posted on Jul, 21 2014 @ 03:58 PM
link   

originally posted by: rustyclutch

originally posted by: LarryLove
So what evidence exists to prove without question that the Russian didn't have a hand in this — directly or indirectly?

Russia is the one being accused. I believe the burden of proof lies on the accuser. You can't accuse someone of a crime without proof.


So … in true ATS style you are just basing your opinion on … nothing? I haven't accused anyone, just thought it necessary to detail some of what we know and have seen played out across the media and social media.



posted on Jul, 21 2014 @ 03:58 PM
link   
a reply to: tsurfer2000h

you clearly omit the recordings of Kiev traffic control, why is that??



posted on Jul, 21 2014 @ 04:00 PM
link   
a reply to: demus




too bad for your theory and for American propaganda overall is this:

Separatists to Release Bodies, Black Box From Flight 17 to Malaysians, Dutch


I guess you missed where I said it was just my opinion...nothing about it being a theory.

I am glad to see they are cooperating.



posted on Jul, 21 2014 @ 04:00 PM
link   

originally posted by: LarryLove

originally posted by: rustyclutch

originally posted by: LarryLove
So what evidence exists to prove without question that the Russian didn't have a hand in this — directly or indirectly?

Russia is the one being accused. I believe the burden of proof lies on the accuser. You can't accuse someone of a crime without proof.


So … in true ATS style you are just basing your opinion on … nothing? I haven't accused anyone, just thought it necessary to detail some of what we know and have seen played out across the media and social media.


what proof you have that revolted Mongolians didn't have anything to do with this?



posted on Jul, 21 2014 @ 04:00 PM
link   

originally posted by: demus

originally posted by: LarryLove
So what evidence exists to prove without question that the Russian didn't have a hand in this — directly or indirectly?


what evidence exists to prove that Russians have something to do with this?

(rabid attacks of Hillary Clinton, John Kerry, Cameron etc + Obama threatening sanctions etc is not counting as evidence...)


Actually, for once on this site I am not going down an American-centric route and looking at what my own country has to say as well as Holland, Australia etc.



posted on Jul, 21 2014 @ 04:01 PM
link   
a reply to: rustyclutch

Military "Experts" are being used by both sides. Military "Experts" have been proven to be wrong time and time again. On both sides of any fence you chose.

Why should I buy your version when I have training myself to discern the truth from the facts, which are scarce at the moment.

But even the scarce facts seem to point to the separatists. If they would admit that some trigger happy idiot pulled the trigger, it would go a long way to easing tensions.

But no...they are removing evidence AND bodies. That doesn't look to good when it comes to strengthening their case.



posted on Jul, 21 2014 @ 04:05 PM
link   

originally posted by: LarryLove

originally posted by: rustyclutch

originally posted by: LarryLove
So what evidence exists to prove without question that the Russian didn't have a hand in this — directly or indirectly?

Russia is the one being accused. I believe the burden of proof lies on the accuser. You can't accuse someone of a crime without proof.


So … in true ATS style you are just basing your opinion on … nothing? I haven't accused anyone, just thought it necessary to detail some of what we know and have seen played out across the media and social media.


You are accusing someone. IF you are arguing about the evidence you are saying they are lying. If they are lying they are guilty. If you take a side you are accusing the other side by default. I accuse the United States of being liars. The Russians didn't do it and they are willing to provide evidence. The United States isn't. You guys can't argue your way out of that. If the police came and arrested you for a robbery you would say where is the evidence. Why should it work any different for any other accusation. PROOF.

Russia is the one that has been accused. The accuser needs to present some evidence. None of the accusers in this thread OR in the government can prove Russia had anything to do with this. Until you do you will be seen as liars and disinfo agents. Substantiate your claims or stop making them. If you are in between stop arguing for the American side. If you are on the American side provide your proof. I've provided mine. Been arguing with you guys for HOURS waiting on yours. Maybe you should be doing some reading somewhere trying to prove me wrong instead arguing your clearly biased opinions to someone who has spotted you for what you are.



posted on Jul, 21 2014 @ 04:05 PM
link   

originally posted by: LarryLove
So what evidence exists to prove without question that the Russian didn't have a hand in this — directly or indirectly?


NIST is probably working on the evidence for the US as we speak. Its probably from a up grade 3D computer Version form 911.

The US is a joke.




top topics



 
38
<< 6  7  8    10  11  12 >>

log in

join