Ukrainian Su-25 warplane detected heading toward Malaysian Boeing

a reply to: rustyclutch

I'm not arguing, but rather debating.

Please provide the "Proof" where you are right and I will acknowledge it. I'm not taking sides, though I will admit to leaning towards the Western side at the moment. But every ones they have been know to screw the pooch at times. Just like everybody else.

a reply to: rustyclutch

What facts are talking about?

Show us some independent facts, don't have them yet? Then it's all speculation so how the hell can anybody be right?

originally posted by: TDawgRex

originally posted by: Flatcoat
a reply to: TDawgRex

And yes, I'm still laughing at your attempt.

Well, that could be an effect of the meds, and anyway I was referring to the comparison of Russian intel to Western intel, when, in fact, the West has failed to produce any...Regardless of the veracity of the Russian information....does that clear things up?

No, not at all. Western Intel, along with media across the world are showing the separatists and yes, the Russian Gov't as hindering the investigation. It's been filmed and independently documented.

Time to go back to MISO school.

So, by "intel" do you mean an unnamed U.S. official saying "We believe that...."?

All I see is my proof / propaganda is better than your proof / propaganda *fingers in ears* lalalalalala


So far Russia has been releasing more technical and believable proof than the US has, all the US / UK et al has done is release their politican hounds yapping like rabbid dogs and that also echos from the populous.

How about y'all showing some maturity and intelligence and actually discussing it backing up with something concrete rather than hot air balloons filled with poop.

This is worse than poop throwing during an American election time.

originally posted by: stuthealien
a reply to: thesaneone strange then that untill the new banking system was ongoing europe was peacefull then all hell broke loose, then a airliner shot down ,sounds classic cia operationto me ,wasnt saddam proposing to start a new banking system also with no petrol dollar?????????????

Oh the CIA, right.

I keep forgetting that the CIA is guilty of everything.

originally posted by: Flatcoat
a reply to: TDawgRex

And yes, I'm still laughing at your attempt.

Well, that could be an effect of the meds, and anyway I was referring to the comparison of Russian intel to Western intel, when, in fact, the West has failed to produce any...Regardless of the veracity of the Russian information....does that clear things up?

So are you saying that your Meds are wearing off or just kicking in?

Either way, my sympathies.

a reply to: lightedhype very interesting that america could not see or till today find a plane flight 370 but they can without a a doubt confirm a missile was fired. That missile is a hundred times smaller than a plane

Why wonder why it's taking so long to listen to that recordings from the traffic control in Kiev... The same didn't happened for the private rebels intercepted phone calls, and why is that??? we may ask...

originally posted by: voyger2
a reply to: rustyclutch

My opinion at this time is very simple:

The Rebels did it.

The Rebels were bated (flight path altered) by Ukrainian Forces. - If true.
If Ukrainians intentional divert the flight path to a new trajectory (were the rebels were shooting at antonovs or plains) escorting them with a jet fighter endangering the safety of the civil aircraft. If they did that, they are co-responsible for the tragic results.

(let's wait for the cross of information from traffic control recordings and the black box's, at the moment in opposite hands - better still)

That's at least a theory with some sort of factual basis, and although I disagree, that was what I thought happened on day 1. Now I'm not so sure. They say the video framing the rebels was made the day before. An american satellite was over the area for only abotu 30 minutes, but the exact 30 minutes leading up to and after the crash. It was also intercepted with an su25. This all points to Kiev being the culprits. Still we don't know exactly what happened, but Russia has proven it wasn't them AND that Kiev had BUK missile defense systems active where the plane was shot down.

originally posted by: voyger2
Why wonder why it's taking so long to listen to that recordings from the traffic control in Kiev... The same didn't happened for the private rebels intercepted phone calls, and why is that??? we may ask...

And that is what we need, questions, questions, so we can find answers, and probably more questions, but nooo, what do we do, finger pointing, name calling on online forums et al.

We will go down lots of paths with these questions and answers, but eventually we built up a picture of facts. So far we are not doing that on here, all we are doing is hair pulling and nail scratching and finger wiggling.

The questions that make people go on the defensive, sound unconfortable, make people uneasy, the hard questions, because they are the RIGHT QUESTIONS.

originally posted by: thesaneone
a reply to: rustyclutch

What facts are talking about?

Show us some independent facts, don't have them yet? Then it's all speculation so how the hell can anybody be right?

No evidence they produce will be good enough for you. How many nations have satellites in that area? How many nations conduct the surveilance in that area that Russia does? If they had to rely on the rest of the world to prove their innocence based on the meager tools at their disposal I'm sure anyone could make a case against them. America isn't going to prove Russia didn't do it.....not after talking smack for 72 hours. They'd burn that intel before they'd release it. So it's up to the Russians. You don't have to believe it. Doesn't matter to me. You can be wrong, I'm fine with that. Still waiting on them American facts though. The prosecutor usually bears the burden of proof. Since America is doing all the accusing they should have had the evidence up front.

originally posted by: moobie

originally posted by: voyger2
Why wonder why it's taking so long to listen to that recordings from the traffic control in Kiev... The same didn't happened for the private rebels intercepted phone calls, and why is that??? we may ask...

And that is what we need, questions, questions, so we can find answers, and probably more questions, but nooo, what do we do, finger pointing, name calling on online forums et al.

We will go down lots of paths with these questions and answers, but eventually we built up a picture of facts. So far we are not doing that on here, all we are doing is hair pulling and nail scratching and finger wiggling.

Because some people would rather dispute the facts being released by the accused than the lack of facts being released by the accuser. It's a total frame job for anyone with an objective mind. For some people Russia has to be wrong.....PERIOD. Even when all evidence and reason points to the contrary.

a reply to: moobie

We will go down lots of paths with these questions and answers, but eventually we built up a picture of facts. So far we are not doing that on here, all we are doing is hair pulling and nail scratching and finger wiggling.

That's because there are two type of posters here. Only one type is beneficial. .

Type 1: People who just want to review all info and evidence brought forth by all sources.

Type 2: People who dismiss everything that comes from the "Russians" and believe everything that comes from the "West".

originally posted by: rustyclutch

originally posted by: moobie

originally posted by: voyger2
Why wonder why it's taking so long to listen to that recordings from the traffic control in Kiev... The same didn't happened for the private rebels intercepted phone calls, and why is that??? we may ask...

And that is what we need, questions, questions, so we can find answers, and probably more questions, but nooo, what do we do, finger pointing, name calling on online forums et al.

We will go down lots of paths with these questions and answers, but eventually we built up a picture of facts. So far we are not doing that on here, all we are doing is hair pulling and nail scratching and finger wiggling.

Because some people would rather dispute the facts being released by the accused than the lack of facts being released by the accuser. It's a total frame job for anyone with an objective mind. For some people Russia has to be wrong.....PERIOD. Even when all evidence and reason points to the contrary.

All I can say is...

Hatters gona hate.

a reply to: rustyclutch

So tell me why I should believe what the Soviet Union has to say over any other info that's out there why should anyone trust them?

originally posted by: thesaneone
a reply to: rustyclutch

So tell me why I should believe what the Soviet Union has to say over any other info that's out there why should anyone trust them?

You don't have to believe them. Tell me why you should believe someone who isn't giving you any proof at all? Someone with a history of telling big bold faced lies? The american media and the american government. Two documented liars. Why isn't their lack of proof being called into question? Do you really think the Russians aren't going to make this evidence readily available to everyone? They are willing to submit their evidence to the world to be reviewed in their defense. Washington isn't giving up anything. Who looks like the liar here?

a reply to: voyger2

The Rebels were bated (flight path altered) by Ukrainian Forces. - If true.

It's been shown numerous times that the plane was flying it's intended route which was verified by Malaysian Air and the governing body that sets the flight rules Eurocontrol.

Malaysia Airlines joined Liow in defending its use of the route over Ukraine, saying in a statement Friday that the flight plan had been approved by Eurocontrol, the air navigation service provider responsible for determining flight paths over Europe.

The airlines said that the course taken by the plane was a common one and that another flight from a different airliner was on the same route at the time of the MH17 crash in the region of Donetsk near the Russian border.

"At no point did MH17 fly into, or request to fly into, this area," the statement said. "At all times, MH17 was in airspace approved by the ICAO."

www.latimes.com...

They weren't baited as they were flying their intended route, but they were more than likely misidentified by Russian separatists as a Ukraine military plane and became the unlucky flight.

a reply to: thesaneone

So tell me why I should believe what the Soviet Union has to say over any other info that's out there why should anyone trust them?

Because Russia would never tell a lie...You didn't know that?

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: thesaneone

So tell me why I should believe what the Soviet Union has to say over any other info that's out there why should anyone trust them?

Because Russia would never tell a lie...You didn't know that?

Neither would Obama.

a reply to: rustyclutch

But your willing to believe in the state run media?

Lol, bah bah.