Ukrainian Su-25 warplane detected heading toward Malaysian Boeing

originally posted by: ken10

originally posted by: thesaneone
a reply to: rustyclutch

There are no facts from either side yet, until the international community provides the facts then this thread is going to be filled with opinions.

Well the fact that the separatists held on to the black boxes to give them to Malaysian officials show to me that they know they have truth on their side and didn't want "persons" with agendas getting them, for fear of tampering.

Have the officials been given the boxes yet?

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: voyger2

you clearly omit the recordings of Kiev traffic control, why is that??

I haven't heard anything about them, so how can someone omit something they haven't heard?

That's why.

exactly!

why do you think we didn't hear recordings of Kiev traffic control?

it seems to me like Ukrainians didn't follow the instructions of their owners quite well and Russia/Putin will completely dismantle their accusations - turning this false flag into a info war victory.

originally posted by: spy66

originally posted by: rustyclutch
a reply to: spy66

Maybe you are mistaking radar images for Satellite images. Satellites would have picked up whatever was flying in line of site regardless of radar.

The video evidence of the flight is from a radar. Not a satellite. The images taken of the Ukrainan BUKs are taken by Russian Satellite.

The Us claim to have satellite images of the event, but have not shown them yet. They probably take a few days to produce.

Good point. I would imagine the Russians have some better than average radar.

originally posted by: rustyclutch

originally posted by: thesaneone
a reply to: ScrutonEyez
Who are the people that released the evidence?

If you are going to try to get me mad with snarky comments you have to try a bit harder than that.

The Russian Intelligence and Military released the evidence. You know....the people you would expect. Everyone talks about the backwards Russians, but in 3 days they produced all the evidence they needed to prove it wasn't them OR the rebels. All Washington has done is accuse. It's been obvious since the plane went down that the only people who stood to gain were Kiev and Washington. Is their information they are willing to share with the WORLD less credible than American bluster?

You just conveniently ignore the facts that the Russian Rebels admitted that they shot the dam thing down at the same time!!! On the net and through regular communications gear. The Russians were very quick to laugh about how they should not be flying in a war zone also. Of course Russia is going to come up with all kinds of doctored evidence to try and prove this daily excuse that they were not to blame.

You can not be that naive.

a reply to: spy66

So proof isn't something showing mh-17 actually there. haha.

originally posted by: rustyclutch

originally posted by: spy66

originally posted by: rustyclutch
a reply to: spy66

Maybe you are mistaking radar images for Satellite images. Satellites would have picked up whatever was flying in line of site regardless of radar.

The video evidence of the flight is from a radar. Not a satellite. The images taken of the Ukrainan BUKs are taken by Russian Satellite.

The Us claim to have satellite images of the event, but have not shown them yet. They probably take a few days to produce.

Good point. I would imagine the Russians have some better than average radar.

The Radar was not military grade. It was trafic monotoring radar.

originally posted by: thesaneone

originally posted by: ken10

originally posted by: thesaneone
a reply to: rustyclutch

There are no facts from either side yet, until the international community provides the facts then this thread is going to be filled with opinions.

Well the fact that the separatists held on to the black boxes to give them to Malaysian officials show to me that they know they have truth on their side and didn't want "persons" with agendas getting them, for fear of tampering.

Have the officials been given the boxes yet?

Looks like its been arranged....

www.foxnews.com...

originally posted by: rustyclutch
a reply to: TDawgRex

Actually our military experts haven't proven anything. Neither have our politicians. The few pieces of evidence that materialized have all been debunked by Russia. If you can't back up your claims Russia did it, then stop spreading lies and disinfo.

What lies? What Disinfo?

If you can't back up the claims that the pro-Russian forces didn't do it, then do so.

I'm at least trying to keep a open mind here. But with tripe such as you have posted, then I'm starting to think I am right.

This is complete Poppycock...

Usually, the People destroying the evidence have something to hide.

But Hey, Go ahead and believe what you want.

It was probably George Bush flying that other Plane.

Maybe it was Dick Cheney who fired the missile?

originally posted by: ken10

originally posted by: thesaneone

originally posted by: ken10

originally posted by: thesaneone
a reply to: rustyclutch

There are no facts from either side yet, until the international community provides the facts then this thread is going to be filled with opinions.

Well the fact that the separatists held on to the black boxes to give them to Malaysian officials show to me that they know they have truth on their side and didn't want "persons" with agendas getting them, for fear of tampering.

Have the officials been given the boxes yet?

Looks like its been arranged....

www.foxnews.com...

What a bad move by the pro-russians. Now we will never know the truth.

originally posted by: Patriotsrevenge

originally posted by: rustyclutch

originally posted by: thesaneone
a reply to: ScrutonEyez
Who are the people that released the evidence?

If you are going to try to get me mad with snarky comments you have to try a bit harder than that.

The Russian Intelligence and Military released the evidence. You know....the people you would expect. Everyone talks about the backwards Russians, but in 3 days they produced all the evidence they needed to prove it wasn't them OR the rebels. All Washington has done is accuse. It's been obvious since the plane went down that the only people who stood to gain were Kiev and Washington. Is their information they are willing to share with the WORLD less credible than American bluster?

You just conveniently ignore the facts that the Russian Rebels admitted that they shot the dam thing down at the same time!!! On the net and through regular communications gear. The Russians were very quick to laugh about how they should not be flying in a war zone also. Of course Russia is going to come up with all kinds of doctored evidence to try and prove this daily excuse that they were not to blame.

You can not be that naive.

I must have missed the fact they admitted they shot the plane down. Maybe you missed the fact that that tape was spliced together from a bunch of conversations. Something the Russian experts also proved. And it was made a day before the plane crashed. Anymore disinfo you would like to spread?

Nevermind the fact that it is the Russians and their Rebel dogs that will not let anyone near the aircraft. They have also looted it and are trying to hide evindence.

That right there makes them guilty. If Russia knew they had noting to do with it then Russia would have sealed it off quicker that crap and let the investigation begin.

a reply to: ken10

That doesn't answer my question, did they receive them yet?

So far I have not read anything about the Malaysian officials having the boxes in their possession.

a reply to: rustyclutch

I should add that the 'day before' argument is false. I tried that myself - it shows the previous day time.
But otherwise, i agree, for now.

originally posted by: TDawgRex

originally posted by: rustyclutch
a reply to: TDawgRex

Actually our military experts haven't proven anything. Neither have our politicians. The few pieces of evidence that materialized have all been debunked by Russia. If you can't back up your claims Russia did it, then stop spreading lies and disinfo.

What lies? What Disinfo?

If you can't back up the claims that the pro-Russian forces didn't do it, then do so.

I'm at least trying to keep a open mind here. But with tripe such as you have posted, then I'm starting to think I am right.

It would be a lot easier for you to link to your facts than to keep arguing the same ridiculous drivel you are arguing. I presented what I believe to be facts. Present what you believe to be facts. There are none. Case closed on your end.

originally posted by: whitepanther999
a reply to: rustyclutch

I should add that the 'day before' argument is false. I tried that myself - it shows the previous day time.
But otherwise, i agree, for now.

We aren't talking about the day the file was uploaded to youtube. We are talking about the day the file was created.

originally posted by: tsurfer2000h
a reply to: voyger2

you clearly omit the recordings of Kiev traffic control, why is that??

I haven't heard anything about them, so how can someone omit something they haven't heard?

That's why.

Yeah. That's the point you "haven't heard anything about them" and Why is that ? Aren't they relevant as proof ? Aren't they essential to determinate the conversations between the pilot and control, before, during and after the change on the flight route to the conflict zone?

Why we immediately ear from Ukraine "secret services" the rebels conversation instead of Kiev Aerial Traffic control?

Make the effort, think. Give me your two cents..

originally posted by: rustyclutch

originally posted by: whitepanther999
a reply to: rustyclutch

I should add that the 'day before' argument is false. I tried that myself - it shows the previous day time.
But otherwise, i agree, for now.

We aren't talking about the day the file was uploaded to youtube. We are talking about the day the file was created.

Yup. I created the file and uploaded on the same day. Then i downloaded the file from Youtube.
The windows properties showed proper time.
BUT, Mediainfo properties showed the time difference of more than 24 hours.

originally posted by: Patriotsrevenge
Nevermind the fact that it is the Russians and their Rebel dogs that will not let anyone near the aircraft. They have also looted it and are trying to hide evindence.

That right there makes them guilty. If Russia knew they had noting to do with it then Russia would have sealed it off quicker that crap and let the investigation begin.

Does anymore need to be said about where you stand in this argument. There is no amount of proof in the world that would convince you

a reply to: ken10

for fear of tampering.

Somewhat like the separatists did by contaminating, and removing debris before an investigation could begin?

Or were they just being helpful?