Vladimir Putin Breaks Silence on MH17 crash

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: moobie

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: moobie

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: spy66

interesting...

where did you get the facts on the shootdown and actions of the SU-25... an aircraft not capable of reaching those altitudes?

The Upgraded M1 of the Su-25 CAN.

Specs: www.redstar.gr...

Picture: files.abovetopsecret.com...

Enjoy your facts.

except for the fact it was a sam and not an air to air missile.

Except for the fact you stated their SU-25's cannot reach the altitute. Their SU-25M1's CAN indeed reach that altitude.

Russia has already given their max ceiling. The Russians were the ones who stated it was an SU-25. Nothing like giving specifics by blaming an aircraft that cannot reach the height in question.

SU-25 M1's ARE SU-25's.

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: spy66

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: moobie

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: spy66

interesting...

where did you get the facts on the shootdown and actions of the SU-25... an aircraft not capable of reaching those altitudes?

The Upgraded M1 of the Su-25 CAN.

Specs: www.redstar.gr...

Picture: files.abovetopsecret.com...

Enjoy your facts.

except for the fact it was a sam and not an air to air missile.

Proove it was a SAM.

Prove it was an air to air missile.

Russia have already prooved it wasn't a SAM. Have you seen the Russian debfief?

Russia asked the US if they could show them which of the BUK that fired at Mh17. Becasue they want to know which one it was.

Russia have been fallowing all 9 BUK systems in that sector that could have shot Down the Mh17. With Satellite and Radar. All russia picked up was locations and that all 9 BUK systems were active. No missile was fired.

a reply to: moobie

LOL... The first thing I thought when I saw the title of this thread "Putin breaks his silence" was:

"Voopsy, my bad"

a reply to: spy66

The radar tracks that have already been debunked? That Russian evidence?

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: spy66

The radar tracks that have already been debunked? That Russian evidence?

So you can read radar displays in Russian?

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: spy66

The radar tracks that have already been debunked? That Russian evidence?

What have you debunked there?

originally posted by: moobie

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: spy66

The radar tracks that have already been debunked? That Russian evidence?

So you can read radar displays in Russian?

Yes i can read the video. I also understand what the translater is telling us when it comes to the radar video.

originally posted by: spy66

originally posted by: moobie

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: spy66

The radar tracks that have already been debunked? That Russian evidence?

So you can read radar displays in Russian?

Yes i can.

The question was to our inhouse Russian, regional, forensics and avaiation expert.

The expert that is sitting in front of a computer instaed of being out in the field solving this case, doing a better job than the Dutch forensic experts.

originally posted by: moobie

originally posted by: spy66

originally posted by: moobie

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: spy66

The radar tracks that have already been debunked? That Russian evidence?

So you can read radar displays in Russian?

Yes i can.

The question was to our inhouse Russian, regional, forensics and avaiation expert.

The expert that is sitting in front of a computer instaed of being out in the field solving this case, doing a better job than the Dutch forensic experts.

It seams that i am not alone.

originally posted by: moobie

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: spy66

The radar tracks that have already been debunked? That Russian evidence?

So you can read radar displays in Russian?

Did I say I could?

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: moobie

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: spy66

The radar tracks that have already been debunked? That Russian evidence?

So you can read radar displays in Russian?

Did I say I could?

Well you are stating it is debunked, I would hope you would know what youre talking about.

Care to explain the debunking based on your experiese.

originally posted by: moobie

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: moobie

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: spy66

The radar tracks that have already been debunked? That Russian evidence?

So you can read radar displays in Russian?

Did I say I could?

Well you are stating it is debunked, I would hope you would know what youre talking about.

Care to explain the debunking based on your experiese.

Being I never claimed I debunked it I see you are once again just making things up. I stated the Russia presentation had been debunked, specifically the radar portion. Secondly it was a SAM and not an air to air missile. Feel free to research missile types used and the damage they cause.

Provided the rebels have not completely been able to destroy all the evidence we could get verification by damage to the aircraft. Good thing the rebels cleaned it all up. Anyone have any idea where the rebels have taken the debris they removed from the scene to?

Provided the black boxes have not been tampered with we will get the cockpit voice recordings. Last I knew there was no radio communications from MH17 alerting ATC of a military aircraft in their vicinity.

When my boys were little, my oldest would get in trouble for picking on his little brother. Until the day I was spying on them and saw my youngest hit my oldest and then said "OW" followed by some really good fake tears. Knowing I would hear the hit, and hear him cry out which would get his brother in trouble. When the whole time his big brother was doing nothing but standing there. Big stinker head.

Anyway, this whole situation with the plane and blaming it on Russia reminded me of my boys.

I wonder... Who's the stinker head?

a reply to: Xcathdra

Being I never claimed I debunked it I see you are once again just making things up. I stated the Russia presentation had been debunked, specifically the radar portion.

Well would you mind posting a link to this alleged "debunking" then? Thanks in advance.

a reply to: mrsdudara
I'm waiting excitedly for evidence either from US, Malay or Russian experts. Now this human angle you bring up is of course there in all sibling rivalry - which is similar in collective measures to the Arab-Israeli conflict as well as the Ukrainian-Russian one.
However, if you think in terms of realistic politics and abilities, I think it is very unlikely that the Ukrainian state (UA) had anything to do with it. Let me sum up my arguments - I argued for this in other threads since the tragic event.

The UAS is notoriously inefficient and has only been set up since a few months ago. They couldn't prevent Russia's taking of the Crimea, neither the staging of a vote by Donbass folks, nor the rebels seizing their arms caches etc. If you down an airplane with the help of a standing army of the country for dubious PR reasons (no one would suddenly send troops to free the Ukraine or to punish Russia - just look at what other countries get away with), you need a high-level, tight conspiracy with secrets to be held for decades. Notably: among the members of their air controlling corps, their own military, whatever satellite info they share, their scientists etc.

The UAS would be risking everything by the cold-blooded murder of hundreds of civilians who trusted their lives to the UAS as soon as they flew into the country and started relying upon their signals. If anybody leaked serious evidence for such a conspiracy, world leaders would clamp down on the new UAS and withdraw all support, evict it from the UN etc. Since the UAS is neither very strong nor very rich, a few world leaders could actually make them step down - as well as the outraged millions of their own citizens.
If there was an Ukrainian airplane flying near the jet for any length of time, it was probably to make sure that it is crossing safely.

Which does not make the UAS innocent or well-meaning in other respects. Some of them are full of prejudice and hatred against all Russians, some bombed their own citizens and some hold Nazi views. They may even have tried to fabricate or cook pieces of evidence against the Russians. But the fact that they are nasty does not prove their guilt.

I think the highest logical proof that it was not the Ukrainian army was precisely that they could have easily done it in their own territory.

On the other hand, the rebels could make this mistake - easily enough. Most likely they thought it was an UAS plane and wanted to show off their force. They probably had no military intelligence, no connection to the flight controllers' network. Or if they did, that would qualify as the most dangerous type of terrorism - and since many there are idealistic, this would split their movement.

I even doubt that Russia has anything to do with it actively. They most likely supplied the weaponry - though it could have been one of those captured from the UAS. We'll know that in days.

This whole affair is very bad for Russia and to the proxy war in Donbass - so if Putin's men knew about the identity of this plane they would have prevented its downing. On the other hand, I don't think the Russian Army would risk shooting at a big plane they couldn't identify. They strike me as more efficient lately, more organized, plus they are probably aware of the story of the Korean Airlines shot down a generation ago (yes, the Soviets were that inefficient sometimes).

So while the brother logic is certainly true at a basic human level, it does not hold water for me in the cui prodest scenario.

a reply to: Kokatsi

The Ukraine government has every reason to stage an event like this as it wants Europe to be embroiled in its civil war.

The Ukraine's primary ally is USA. I doubt USA cares about what you said.

The Americans are masters of false flag attacks. It is their specialty.

I can tell you what will happen.

Investigation - cannot happen as the place is an active war-zone.

War - will continue. Putin does not want to intensify the war. So the war will continue at low level until Europe or Ukraine decide to ramp up the hostilities.

Media war - will continue.

UKRAINE CANNOT WIN. Ukraine has been converted to a WWIII war zone. The only outcome is destruction.

Ukraine's people are fools who have given up their land to outsiders - to fight Russia.

The European dreams of Ukraine cannot happen. Not possible.

originally posted by: GargIndia
I can tell you what will happen.

Investigation - cannot happen as the place is an active war-zone.

War - will continue. Putin does not want to intensify the war. So the war will continue at low level until Europe or Ukraine decide to ramp up the hostilities.

Media war - will continue.

UKRAINE CANNOT WIN. Ukraine has been converted to a WWIII war zone. The only outcome is destruction.

Ukraine's people are fools who have given up their land to outsiders - to fight Russia.

The European dreams of Ukraine cannot happen. Not possible.

You hit the nail on the head with that post & the one before this is how i have been thinking things will go also, totally agree with your other post aswell, Americans are the false flag masters and Ukraine being all tied in with them now are following in their footsteps! Their doing the same s#!%, remember them emails between the Ukrainian military guy and the Army colonel at the US embassy i believe, that were leaked talking about a false flag in a transport hub that would be blamed on Russia so the US could move on in? We are going back a couple months now and i dont know alot about the authenticity i read it on here, and also the numerous other events they have falsified to make Russia look bad why would they stop doing that? There is a war going on and they already clearly fight dirty (Ukraine) theyre in the US' pocket, people keep saying everyone blames the US for everything but look at their track record!!! like they give a # about innocent civillians, they dont even care about their own. Putin didn't even want any of this at all, yet everyone points the finger straight at him for their own political gains and what ever the hell else theyre trying to conjure up.

a reply to: GargIndia

Putin does not want to intensify the war? That's odd... Why is he supplying the separatist movement with weapons, logistics, and other forms of support then? Surely if there were just a few thousand ragtag rebels the Ukrainian military would have wiped them all out by now, no? Especially after their victory in Donetsk? But that isn't what we see is it? No. We see a steady stream of fighters, equipment, money, weapons, and support coming across the Russian border directly into rebel held areas of Eastern Ukraine, and the forces that were defeated by the Ukrainians being replenished, so don't tell me Putin doesn't want to escalate the war. I wasn't born yesterday.

a reply to: Shana91aus

The only nail hit hit was his thumb.

You guys rant and rave over claims with no proof, except when it comes from your side.

No one is going to win in a nuclear war.
Russia would lose in a conventional war.
The west will not start a war with Russia.
Putin strikes me as the idiotic type who would start a war with the west just to try and to prove how big his rubles are.
Ukraine has every right to protect its territorial sovereignty from Russian backed rebels.
Ukraine has every right to associate with and sign agreements with whatever country it chooses.
This is not the 1980's, Russia is not the Soviet Union, The Russian army is not the Soviet Army, and Putin is not Lenin. Someone should have him live in the now and face reality - his actions have blown up in his face and he is desperately trying to figure out how to blame anyone for his screw up.