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As Christians do we have to obey, without question?

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posted on Jul, 20 2014 @ 05:29 PM
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In Romans 13:1-7 we read

13 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. 4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.

6 This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. 7 Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.


Many Christians will read this and claim government, no matter the laws and regulations, have ultimate authority.

During hurricane Katrina the military was deweaponizing the public, and pastors were saying lets get this whole mess straightened out, then we can go back to regular everyday constitutional law. In the meantime, "law abiding" citizens were trading freedom for safety.
After 9/11 the same thing was happening and is still happening.
Take the TSA for example. The pat downs are all about control and not safety. It might be under the guise of safety, but most everyone knows the true intentions. An 84 year old grandma, a baby, or you for that matter shouldn't have your own personal rights taken away for the perceived safety of a few.

Atrocities in Nazi Germany were allowed initially because of the passive Christian leadership at the time. Through Romans 13, Hitler got the pastors to sit quietly as he started up his death machine.
The Devil knows the Bible too. Pastors and Priests need to beware, because they are very powerful leaders. If you want something in your own country to happen, get the pastors on board.
Now I'm not saying all government is bad. I'm saying, not all government is good. When the government starts implementing laws that infringe on your God-given rights, stand up. If you're a pastor or a priest make sure you're standing up for the church, the nation, and God.




posted on Jul, 20 2014 @ 05:43 PM
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Well, I can say this is about the same as the saying "you can't fight city hall". If consensus of the time dictates the reality we live in it controls reality. So fighting the ones in power is not sensible if it leads to your imprisonment or death. Maybe this was orchestrated long ago because the ones in charge were killing Christians. A Martyr was usually imprisoned or killed back then, it is better to obey the laws and pay taxes due than to rot in jail or have your wife become a widow. Society shuns those who go against it.

Christians were not dumb, they knew of this practice long ago. It has not changed much today. You can do good all the time, but do one thing wrong, and all the good you did is tossed under the table and you are branded as bad. You may be shunned by society.

Just tell someone you saw an angel or aliens and see what it does to your reputation.
edit on 20-7-2014 by rickymouse because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 20 2014 @ 05:52 PM
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Letters of Paul, apostle by `his own`right, never was one of the apostles with living Jesus. Sometimes referred to been an agent of the Roman empire. What he writes are all rules.. obey the powers that be, different message than gospels have. Something about Paul might not add up.



posted on Jul, 20 2014 @ 05:55 PM
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No...

Some of the first things I was taught in the military (which just reinforced the way I was raised) was you cant just say I was following orders and not expect to see a firing squad.

Any rational thinking freedom loving American should know that challenging authority is our birthright, as citizens and as a nation.



posted on Jul, 20 2014 @ 05:55 PM
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originally posted by: rickymouse
Well, I can say this is about the same as the saying "you can't fight city hall". If consensus of the time dictates the reality we live in it controls reality. So fighting the ones in power is not sensible if it leads to your imprisonment or death. Maybe this was orchestrated long ago because the ones in charge were killing Christians. A Martyr was usually imprisoned or killed back then, it is better to obey the laws and pay taxes due than to rot in jail or have your wife become a widow. Society shuns those who go against it.

Christians were not dumb, they knew of this practice long ago. It has not changed much today. You can do good all the time, but do one thing wrong, and all the good you did is tossed under the table and you are branded as bad. You may be shunned by society.

Just tell someone you saw an angel or aliens and see what it does to your reputation.
I agree to an extent. You personally have less effect than a church leader, but the leadership in the Church has an obligation to lead it's Church to do the right thing, even if it is tyranny and there doesn't seem to be a clear path to change. Change can come through many different people, and through the many. Church leadership should lead from the pulpit and encourage freedom at all times.
Just so I'm clear, freedom isn't the right to do whatever you want, but to do what is right.



posted on Jul, 20 2014 @ 05:56 PM
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No way. The more I look at religion in general, I am glad I gave it up.



posted on Jul, 20 2014 @ 05:58 PM
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Do what YOU believe is right, not what some corrupt ancient book or laws made by self-serving politicians tell you to do.



posted on Jul, 20 2014 @ 06:03 PM
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originally posted by: Irishhaf
No...

Some of the first things I was taught in the military (which just reinforced the way I was raised) was you cant just say I was following orders and not expect to see a firing squad.

Any rational thinking freedom loving American should know that challenging authority is our birthright, as citizens and as a nation.
Star for you. That's exactly what I'm talking about. Do what is right, no matter. It starts with us. My bigger point is Church leadership should get in line with the Bible. If a government is overstepping, the Church should put it back in its place.



posted on Jul, 20 2014 @ 06:05 PM
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originally posted by: Firefly_
Do what YOU believe is right, not what some corrupt ancient book or laws made by self-serving politicians tell you to do.
So if a child molester thinks it's right to molest children, should they be allowed to do what they think is right?



posted on Jul, 20 2014 @ 06:07 PM
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a reply to: addygrace
Christians have a long history of fighting tptb and church hierarchy.



posted on Jul, 20 2014 @ 06:09 PM
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originally posted by: Cynic
No way. The more I look at religion in general, I am glad I gave it up.
We have no authority outside of God. I'm not talking about religion, I'm talking about morals. Doing what is right out of love.



posted on Jul, 20 2014 @ 06:18 PM
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originally posted by: Stormdancer777
a reply to: addygrace
Christians have a long history of fighting tptb and church hierarchy.
Yes, that's how our country was founded. My point is there are a lot of times, just in recent history, where you see Church leadership bow to authority, and they use Romans 13 to justify it.



posted on Jul, 20 2014 @ 06:27 PM
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It also talks about corruption in the judicial systems in the bible. This is also very evident today. It is the perception of the judge or jury or the prosecution that governs the relationship of the laws. Also there will also be some corrupt people in our police forces, that will never change. It is about the same percent as the deceptive people in our society, many who do not acknowledge that what they do is deception. Deceiving people is not really illegal in this country, as long as you follow a set procedure.



posted on Jul, 20 2014 @ 06:41 PM
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a reply to: addygrace




As Christians do we have to obey, without question?


If you are a Bible believing Christian but you pick and chose what parts of the Bible you want to adhere to....

What's the point of even being a Christian. So many Christian's avoid the question "What would Christ do" and go about their lives as Christian in name only.

If you can't live up to Biblical edicts then get real and call yourself what you really are....a hypocrite!

edit on 20-7-2014 by olaru12 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 20 2014 @ 06:54 PM
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1st off, Paul is speaking in a broad sense. Everything that happens on earth happens through God's will. That being said, the Bible is also full of examples of people who took steps to avoid the rightful rulers where they were at. Joseph and Mary left to avoid Herod's massacre. Moses took the Jewish people out of Egypt even though pharaoh changed his mind and attempted to stop them from leaving, and this was despite the Bible saying that God himself hardened pharaoh's heart. David fled to the mountains to avoid the wrath of King Saul.

Paul is calling people to do what they ought in a Christian sense no matter what their earthly circumstances are. And if you live the righteous kind of life, following the dictates of God, then you should have no fear of even the most evil rulers because God will reward you. But if you do evil, then you should fear the evil rulers for there is no recompense coming to you from God. In fact, it could very well be that the evil ruler is an instrument of God's wrath.

And in fact the proceeding chapter Romans 12 ends with a reminder of how to be a good Christian, and if everyone, including the world's rulers did their best to obey those precepts, live by them, then there would be no need to ever worry about following their authority.

Or that's my understanding.



posted on Jul, 20 2014 @ 07:20 PM
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a reply to: addygrace

The bible is clear on what to do in these situations. Jesus was obediant unto death. He also said, "live by the sword, and die by the sword". The point is to choose your battles. When is it worth resisting? I would say when your family is being threatened, and when you are told to worship another god. When is it worth obeying? When your resistance will bring danger to those who are innocent. There are reprocussions to all decisions. The point is that Jesus layed His life down for all of us.



posted on Jul, 20 2014 @ 07:28 PM
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originally posted by: olaru12
a reply to: addygrace




As Christians do we have to obey, without question?


If you are a Bible believing Christian but you pick and chose what parts of the Bible you want to adhere to....

What's the point of even being a Christian. So many Christian's avoid the question "What would Christ do" and go about their lives as Christian in name only.

If you can't live up to Biblical edicts then get real and call yourself what you really are....a hypocrite!
I don't think Romans 13 is a call for passive obedience. I agree with the poster who stated, there are many instances where the Bible talks about authority overstepping and certain people fighting against that. I believe Romans 13 is telling us to be submissive in general, but a Christian must not be submissive in instances where Gods laws are clearly violated.



posted on Jul, 20 2014 @ 07:31 PM
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a reply to: addygrace

Read the king james version, romans thirteen does not read like that at all.



posted on Jul, 20 2014 @ 07:35 PM
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a reply to: addygrace

For me the passage you stated from Romans is nothing more than political propaganda, written by man for a few men to maintain easier control over a religious population.

So many claim authority from god to judge others, yet i am sure it say's judgement is Gods alone ???

I believe if you are to be a follower of The Book one has to be careful on what to take as truth, the bible is full of contradiction,truth,lies and misguided work there are other layers but those deserve more than this comment.

Regarding the comment above me can i ask which version of The Book this comes from ?
edit on 20-7-2014 by JokerThe1st because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 20 2014 @ 07:47 PM
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a reply to: JokerThe1st

The quote from the op comes from the Niv version



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