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originally posted by: AreUKiddingMe
a reply to: moobie
LOL I'll try not to be too emotional...but really.....come on.....pointing to an internet timestamp and calling that proof of Ukraine framing Russia? This happens almost every time something happens, someone finds a timestamp somewhere and goes off half-cocked. The burden of proof lies with the person suggesting this is evidence of a frame-up. And this supposed timestamp is not proof of anything.
Videos get deleted all the time. Who knows why this one got deleted? Could be any reason.
Hopefully I wasn't too biased or dramatic with my reply to you. :-)
Ok time for me to get about my day. I'm outta here...pssst........it was the RUSSIANS who did it.
originally posted by: Willtell
a reply to: AreUKiddingMe
Then in the interest of full disclosure post the debunking link.
Are we suppose to believe you?
Washington’s propaganda machine is in such high gear that we are in danger of losing the facts that we do have.
One fact is that the separatists do not have the expensive Buk anti-aircraft missile system or the trained personnel to operate it. Another fact is that the separatists have no incentive to shoot down an airliner and neither does Russia.
Anyone can tell the difference between low-flying attack aircraft and an airliner at 33,000 feet. The Ukrainians do have Buk anti-aircraft missile systems, and a Buk battery was operational in the region and deployed at a site from which it could have fired a missile at the airliner.
Just as the separatists and the Russian government have no incentive to shoot down an airliner, neither does the Ukrainian government nor, one would think, even the crazed extreme Ukrainian nationalists who have formed militias to take the fight against the separatists that the Ukrainian army is not keen to undertake–unless there was a plan to frame Russia.
One Russian general familiar with the weapon system offered his opinion that it was a mistake made by the Ukrainian military untrained in the weapon’s use. The general said that although Ukraine has a few of the weapons, Ukrainians have had no training in their use in the 23 years since Ukraine separated from Russia. The general thinks it was an accident due to incompetence.
This explanation makes a certain amount of sense and far more sense than Washington’s propaganda. The problem with the general’s explanation is that it does not explain why the Buk anti-aircraft missile system was deployed near or in a separatist territory. The separatists have no aircraft. It seems odd for Ukraine to have an expensive missile system in an area in which it is of no military use and where the position could be overrun and captured by separatists.
As Washington, Kiev, and the presstitute media are committed to the propaganda that Putin did it, we are not going to get any reliable information from the US media. We will have to figure it out for ourselves. One way to begin is to ask: Why was the missile system where it was? Why risk an expensive missile system by deploying it in a conflict environment in which it is of no use? Incompetence is one answer, and another is that the missile system did have an intended use. What intended use? News reports and circumstantial evidence provide two answers. One is that the ultra-nationalist extremists intended to bring down Putin’s presidential airliner and confused the Malaysian airliner with the Russian airliner.
The Interfax news agency citing anonymous sources, apparently air traffic controllers, reported that the Malaysian airliner and Putin’s airliner were traveling almost the identical route within a few minutes of one another. Interfax quotes its source: “I can say that Putin’s plane and the Malaysian Boeing intersected at the same point and the same echelon. That was close to Warsaw on 330-m echelon at the height of 10,100 meters. The presidential jet was there at 16:21 Moscow time and the Malaysian aircraft at 15:44 Moscow time. The contours of the aircrafts are similar, linear dimensions are also very similar, as for the coloring, at a quite remote distance they are almost identical.”
I have not seen an official Russian denial, but according to news reports, the Russian government in response to the Interfax news report said that Putin’s presidential plane no longer flies the Ukraine route since the outbreak of hostilities.
Before we take the denial at face value, we need to be aware that the implication that Ukraine attempted to assassinate the president of Russia implies war, which Russia wants to avoid. It also implies Washington’s complicity as it is highly unlikely that Washington’s puppet in Kiev would risk such a dangerous act without Washington’s backing. The Russian government, being intelligent and rational, would obviously deny reports of an attempted assassination of the Russian president by Washington and its Kiev puppet. Otherwise, Russia has to do something about it, and that means war.
The second explanation is that the extremists who operate outside the official Ukrainian military, hatched a plot to down an airliner in order to cast the blame on Russia. If such a plot occurred, it likely originated with the CIA or some operative arm of Washington and was intended to force the EU to cease resisting Washington’s sanctions against Russia and to break off Europe’s valuable economic relationships with Russia. Washington is frustrated that its sanctions are unilateral, unsupported by its NATO puppets or any other countries in the world except possibly the lap-dog British PM.
Do you remember that the U.S. government came really close to lying us into a war in Syria?
Or that the mainstream media played a big part in both wars … and apologized for their horrible coverage? So why do you now believe – without any investigation or evidence – the American government and media now saying that Putin is guilty for the shootdown of the Malaysian plane?
The mainstream media – and large gatekeeper “alternative” media – are ALWAYS pro-war. While the Soviet Union was an awful place – where dissenters were routinely murdered, imprisoned, or sent on 1-way trips to the insane asylum – American politicians and press have exaggerated the dangers coming from the Soviet Union and Russia for decades.
Do you remember that wars are often started by government lies about the enemy … and that blowing up things and falsely blaming it on the enemy is the oldest trick in the book? Do you remember … anything?