BUSTED! Ukraine Caught Trying to 'Frame Russia' for Shooting Down Malaysia Flight MH17!

originally posted by: AreUKiddingMe
a reply to: moobie

LOL I'll try not to be too emotional...but really.....come on.....pointing to an internet timestamp and calling that proof of Ukraine framing Russia? This happens almost every time something happens, someone finds a timestamp somewhere and goes off half-cocked. The burden of proof lies with the person suggesting this is evidence of a frame-up. And this supposed timestamp is not proof of anything.

Videos get deleted all the time. Who knows why this one got deleted? Could be any reason.

Hopefully I wasn't too biased or dramatic with my reply to you. :-)

Ok time for me to get about my day. I'm outta here...pssst........it was the RUSSIANS who did it.

A time stamp is good enough to get you in the US court (if you are lucky to not be in the Drone Court).

a reply to: Willtell

Not questioning your merit or motives, but rather the guy who made the youtube video, the Rush Limbaugh wannabe. We don't know much about this crash yet.
We all have opinions and arguing about it sensibly will get us closer to the truth.
Cheers.

At this point, I believe the swell Ukrainian government thought they were shooting down Putins plane. Now all their cohorts in the US government is making up lies to cover their agendas.

originally posted by: Willtell
a reply to: AreUKiddingMe

Then in the interest of full disclosure post the debunking link.
Are we suppose to believe you?

This is the link all as already given, BTW please concentrate on the info..not the advert.


rghost.net...


The video in question,

a reply to: AreUKiddingMe
Ditto!!!

There doesn't have to be any benefit and in fact there could be none in this situation. Who ever fired the missile made an identification error. Neither side intentionally took down a Malaysian plane. That was a mistake. So looking for who would benefit from this tragedy is impossible. t reply to: Willtell

a reply to: AreUKiddingMe

No problem, we all want the truth. And as you say if we seek it by sharing information we may find it.

a reply to: AutumnWitch657

I first mentioned the accident scenario. But if it wasn’t an accident then the who benefits comes into play.

It’s some in the US media and other circles trying to lay blame on Putin automatically it seems to me.

Ok go with that. What is the benefit to either party to take down the plane of a country two thousand miles away from the conflict? What does Malaysia have to add to either side?a reply to: Willtell

I wouldn't put it past the Ukraine government to try to pin it on Russia. Remember, they have Russian equipment also, not just the people who are trying to fight against them. Russia is probably supplying the people trying to break away from the new Ukraine with some equipment, I would believe that.

Now, how is an international council, made up of countries that want to see a free Ukraine that they can exploit, going to give an impartial opinion. It seems like a waste of time, the people investigating it may be biast.

It could have been anyone, what the hell was the jet flying over that area in the first place. It smells rotten, but who made it rotten is the issue.

What Happened to the Malaysian Airliner?

Washington’s propaganda machine is in such high gear that we are in danger of losing the facts that we do have.

One fact is that the separatists do not have the expensive Buk anti-aircraft missile system or the trained personnel to operate it. Another fact is that the separatists have no incentive to shoot down an airliner and neither does Russia.

Anyone can tell the difference between low-flying attack aircraft and an airliner at 33,000 feet. The Ukrainians do have Buk anti-aircraft missile systems, and a Buk battery was operational in the region and deployed at a site from which it could have fired a missile at the airliner.

Just as the separatists and the Russian government have no incentive to shoot down an airliner, neither does the Ukrainian government nor, one would think, even the crazed extreme Ukrainian nationalists who have formed militias to take the fight against the separatists that the Ukrainian army is not keen to undertake–unless there was a plan to frame Russia.

One Russian general familiar with the weapon system offered his opinion that it was a mistake made by the Ukrainian military untrained in the weapon’s use. The general said that although Ukraine has a few of the weapons, Ukrainians have had no training in their use in the 23 years since Ukraine separated from Russia. The general thinks it was an accident due to incompetence.

This explanation makes a certain amount of sense and far more sense than Washington’s propaganda. The problem with the general’s explanation is that it does not explain why the Buk anti-aircraft missile system was deployed near or in a separatist territory. The separatists have no aircraft. It seems odd for Ukraine to have an expensive missile system in an area in which it is of no military use and where the position could be overrun and captured by separatists.

As Washington, Kiev, and the presstitute media are committed to the propaganda that Putin did it, we are not going to get any reliable information from the US media. We will have to figure it out for ourselves. One way to begin is to ask: Why was the missile system where it was? Why risk an expensive missile system by deploying it in a conflict environment in which it is of no use? Incompetence is one answer, and another is that the missile system did have an intended use. What intended use? News reports and circumstantial evidence provide two answers. One is that the ultra-nationalist extremists intended to bring down Putin’s presidential airliner and confused the Malaysian airliner with the Russian airliner.

The Interfax news agency citing anonymous sources, apparently air traffic controllers, reported that the Malaysian airliner and Putin’s airliner were traveling almost the identical route within a few minutes of one another. Interfax quotes its source: “I can say that Putin’s plane and the Malaysian Boeing intersected at the same point and the same echelon. That was close to Warsaw on 330-m echelon at the height of 10,100 meters. The presidential jet was there at 16:21 Moscow time and the Malaysian aircraft at 15:44 Moscow time. The contours of the aircrafts are similar, linear dimensions are also very similar, as for the coloring, at a quite remote distance they are almost identical.”

I have not seen an official Russian denial, but according to news reports, the Russian government in response to the Interfax news report said that Putin’s presidential plane no longer flies the Ukraine route since the outbreak of hostilities.

Before we take the denial at face value, we need to be aware that the implication that Ukraine attempted to assassinate the president of Russia implies war, which Russia wants to avoid. It also implies Washington’s complicity as it is highly unlikely that Washington’s puppet in Kiev would risk such a dangerous act without Washington’s backing. The Russian government, being intelligent and rational, would obviously deny reports of an attempted assassination of the Russian president by Washington and its Kiev puppet. Otherwise, Russia has to do something about it, and that means war.

The second explanation is that the extremists who operate outside the official Ukrainian military, hatched a plot to down an airliner in order to cast the blame on Russia. If such a plot occurred, it likely originated with the CIA or some operative arm of Washington and was intended to force the EU to cease resisting Washington’s sanctions against Russia and to break off Europe’s valuable economic relationships with Russia. Washington is frustrated that its sanctions are unilateral, unsupported by its NATO puppets or any other countries in the world except possibly the lap-dog British PM.

Please go to the link and read the rest of this great op ed, it is worth it…www.infowars.com...

Dear Fellow American: Do You Remember Iraq? Syria? ANYTHING?

www.infowars.com...
Do you remember that the U.S. government came really close to lying us into a war in Syria?

Or that the mainstream media played a big part in both wars … and apologized for their horrible coverage? So why do you now believe – without any investigation or evidence – the American government and media now saying that Putin is guilty for the shootdown of the Malaysian plane?

The mainstream media – and large gatekeeper “alternative” media – are ALWAYS pro-war. While the Soviet Union was an awful place – where dissenters were routinely murdered, imprisoned, or sent on 1-way trips to the insane asylum – American politicians and press have exaggerated the dangers coming from the Soviet Union and Russia for decades.

Do you remember that wars are often started by government lies about the enemy … and that blowing up things and falsely blaming it on the enemy is the oldest trick in the book? Do you remember … anything?

I think it’s too soon to make a judgement. The facts aren’t in yet. At this point finger-pointing is to be expected, and propaganda rules. As far as one side or the other having a motive to do such a thing, I don’t see that at all. Shooting down a passenger liner would not benefit either side, and doing so would entail too great a risk. IMHO, whoever did it made a horrible blunder of epic proportions.

With that in mind, and since both sides apparently have the hardware to accomplish the bloody feat, my question is, “Is there anything to indicate that one side would be more likely than the other to have done this?” And when I think about it, it seems to me the Russian separatists are more likely to have done it than Ukraine. The reasons being: 1) the separatists have no air force, and so an aircraft would be an unlikely target for the Ukrainians, and 2) the separatists have proudly shot down numerous Ukrainian aircraft recently (2 in the same week as the passenger liner); they may have thought they had a chance to bag another one and were just a little too quick on the trigger.

I’m not saying that Russian separatists did in fact shoot the plane down. That’s still TBD. We’ll see in the coming days/weeks. I’m just saying that at this point, in my mind the separatists are more likely the shooters. Like I said before, though, no matter who did it I’m pretty sure it was a colossal error and not done intentionally.

In any case, my feelings go out to the innocent people who lost their lives, and to their families, friends and loved ones. What happened was tragic, and it speaks loudly to the insanity of the Human condition. The mindless struggle for power, the insatiable greed that blinds us, our ever-increasing moral and ethical depravity. I don’t know. In a way it seems to me that no matter who pulled the trigger, in a certain sense maybe we all share a bit of the blame.

I think the Human race is definately overdue for an attitude adjustment...

a reply to: netbound

you must ask youre self ...who benefits the crasch.....!
all and all for now it looks like colatteral damage.....an exident blown up to political profits

a reply to: netbound

Great comment. You express the essence of what is actually behind this and similar tragic world events that are enfolding before our eyes…and that is human selfishness and greed, intolerance, ignorance, and sectarian madness.

Not the most compelling video, but I agree with the message - especially concerning the timing of the information released. When the news first broke on Thursday, they already knew the number of casualties and that it was shot down... probably within an hour of the crash. I remember thinking it was odd how this information could be known so quickly.

a reply to: Willtell

Dear Fellow American: Do You Remember Iraq? Syria? ANYTHING?

Apparently they dont remember anything at all nor the recent chaos thats occurring in Libya right now.

a reply to: Willtell

www.infowars.com...

It must be true if it's coming from infowars.com.

Alex Jones...Mr. conspiracy himself.

No offense, but all folks claiming they "know" anything are full of it. You don't know. You think you know.. based probably on your biases and beliefs, but you don't have any actual proof. A timestamp? Please.

Investigators on the scene don't know who was responsible. So you folks can't possible know for even a fraction of a certainty what happened.

Speculation... guesswork.. haphazard logic.. these are, sadly, now the staples on ATS. People claim within HOURS of an event that they know exactly who was responsible. Guess what.. you DON'T.

It seems very likely, that an OUTSIDE GROUP, that has the ability to infiltrate governments, pose as others, is attempting to start the World War Part Trois.

Expect more of this utter nonsense, that will be blamed on those who likely are just as in the dark about things as any of us.

Quite time to get sick and tired of all the organizations that jump on the bandwagon for meltdown, they are so desperate to stir the pot, yet the pot still not fully boiling, seems it is getting harder to BOIL, but that will not stop them from trying, they at least have every side blind as ever, in some ways MORE than ever

But they have to be more careful also, because even these secret organizations who believe they are doing the will of some higher cause, are being hunted from an area they just cannot believe!!!