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Research: Possibility that Wind Turbine Farms, Solar Panel farms, and Large Green Projects to Genera

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posted on Aug, 3 2014 @ 12:02 PM
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Most of what I have read is that sub stations, power plants, high voltage wires and wind turbines etc... (in other words anything that carries or produces electricity) creates SOME infra-sound and it bothers SOME people. It is completely illogical to demonize one over the other on the specific issue of infra-sound.

posted on Aug, 5 2014 @ 09:35 PM

originally posted by: C0bzz
A few of my thoughts in no particular order....:

The solution to the noise is quiet simple - don't locate wind turbines near houses. Are there laws regarding this? How do they vary between countries? What should the law be?

Meanwhile there are ways to attenuate partially the low frequency sounds generated by wind farms. You can't do anything to stop infrasound. Infrasound can travel easily through walls, through the ground, through water, etc. Infrasound travels over hundreds of miles from the source with very little attenuation.

The problem is that not only does it affect humans. It also affects animals, marine mammals, fish, and a variety of insects, all which use the biological ability of echolocation, magnetoreception, and/or electroreception, and the problem with Earth's magnetic field weakening rapidly and the addition of more wind farms over rural areas is not making it any better.

originally posted by: C0bzz
Much of the discussion in this thread is highly speculative.

Speculation would be to make a conclusion without any field work, or lab experiments done that corroborates a theory. But when you have both field, and lab research all showing the same results that is not speculation. It is validation of the theory.

originally posted by: C0bzz
The approximate design of wind turbines can be found online, so it would be fairly easy to put this inside some special software in order to find the magnetic field characteristics at certain distances which would allow the magnetic field of a wind farm to be compared with other sources. You could probably do that in less time it took to write this entire thread. Then you could search through some wildlife journal and find the sensitivity of animals to magnetic fields, couple this with a migratory path make some predictions.

There are problems with the approach you are suggesting. First of all, it is not as easy as you make it sound. We would need, among other things, permission to use USGS maps for such an endeavor. Not to mention that computer models would only give poor guestimates. There are too many variables to consider to make an accurate prediction model.

It is more reliable to actually do field testing which would take the coordination and cooperation of a lot of field engineers, and/or field technicians taking measurements of the magnetic field being generated by a wind farm. Third, the man-made magnetic field generated by wind turbines is not the only problem. There would also need to be field measurements of the sound pressure levels being generated by the wind farm, to know how far the low frequency sounds and infrasound is traveling. As I mentioned, infrasound travels over hundreds of miles from it's source with very little attenuation. Not to mention that some field testing has been done already which has shown problems in the measurement of low frequency sounds near farms. Below is an example.

Paper Number 57, Proceedings of ACOUSTICS 2011 2-4 November 2011, Gold Coast, Australia

Problems Measuring Low Frequency Sound Levels Near Wind Farms
H.H.C. Bakker(1) and B.I. Rapley(2)
(1) School of Engineering and Advanced Technology, Massey University, Palmerston North, New Zealand
(2) Atkinson and Rapley Consulting, Palmerston North, New Zealand

It is current practice to measure sound pressure levels (SPL) from wind farms at a handful of locations in the surrounding
countryside. These can be placed near sensitive areas such as residences to provide an indication of the SPL
at that point and are used in conjunction with sound level prediction software to infer sound level throughout the
affected areas. This paper reports a literature review of human perception of low-frequency sound before describing
investigations into sound levels at the Makara wind farm near Wellington, New Zealand where the interference of
low frequency sound from the multiple wind turbines form stable SPL patterns. The low frequency emissions from
multiple wind turbines were simulated and validated against measurements from microphone arrays. Ten sound frequencies
from 1/3 octave immission spectra were chosen from recorded measurements on the site ranging from
55 Hz to 315 Hz. The simulation used the positions of 14 wind turbines closest to a microphone array as point
sources of the sounds. Results show that the combined frequencies from a single turbine produced SPL patterns
within a 100 m-by-100 m area that varied by 2–5 dB whereas the combined sounds from all 14 turbines varied by 6-
13 dB.
Validation of these results was achieved by using three 2-by-4 microphone arrays with 1 m, 2 m and 3 m separation between the microphones. These recorded variations of 6–11 dB in their 15-minute, SPL averages. Additional validation was also shown by direct observation; the sound from the wind turbines was observed to appear and disappear within two to three paces between fixed locations. The conclusion is that measurements of low frequency sound levels can vary considerably over even very short distances and that point measurements may not represent the sound levels throughout their immediate neighbourhood.

Note that this paper states clearly that the more turbines the wind farm has, sound pressure increases and has more variations in frequency as a result of the combined sound generated by more turbines. Also, notice that in this field testing the engineers chose ten frequency sounds being generated by the turbines ranging from 55Hz to 315Hz. That's a wide range of frequencies many of which are used by animals for navigation, migration, breeding, feeding, etc.

Then there is the problem of the sound disappearing and reappearing with distance. That means that the field engineers and/or technicians would have to be aware of these problems to properly take measurements, and this would only take in consideration low frequency sounds, not infrasound. Infrasound would travel farther away, for hundreds of miles, which will make this endeavor even more challenging.

originally posted by: C0bzz
Of course wind turbines will also kill birds and the sound will affect wildlife, I think these are probably unavoidable unless the designs can be changed in some way. You could look into wind turbine design, as a wild guess, what happens when small wingtip devices are added to wind turbines? If this does reduce harm, you could then create awareness for this and lobby for it.

Although the mass deaths of birds, and bats by crashing into wind turbines is a problem, the worse problem is the low frequency and infrasound being generated as well as the anthropogenic magnetic fields being generated by wind farms during a time when Earth's own magnetic field has weakened rapidly.

BTW, I am not a field engineer, or even customer engineer anymore because of a disability, so I can't do field testing myself. Not to mention that writing with one hand is not easy.

There could be another approach in doing this, but only if NASA was involved, and trust me that is not going to happen anytime soon.

edit on 5-8-2014 by ElectricUniverse because: add comments.

posted on Aug, 5 2014 @ 10:57 PM

originally posted by: C0bzz
You can't make these claims then say that those that disagree are going off-topic.

First, many members are just disagreeing because they don't want to accept these findings. Not to mention that all the members who have been disagreeing are showing no to understand this topic. For example. The statement and mention of the increase use of RF radiation in the microwave range as somehow negating the findings of acoustic engineers, biologists, and neuroscientists, among other specialists experts in their fiend all saying the same thing. That infrasound and low frequency sounds generated by wind turbines affect negatively not only human health, but also animals. As well as disrupting the biological ability of animals on echolocation, magnetoreception and/or electroreception, and the ability of some insect species of using magnetoreception and electroreception. Meanwhile it is true that RF emissions also affect animals, and humans, infrasound and low frequency sounds are worse. Plus it doesn't help animals, and insects that throughout rural areas more and more wind turbines are being erected forming large anthropogenic magnetic patterns meanwhile Earth's own magnetic field is weakening rapidly.

If we look for example at the disruption of the homing pigeon races in Europe, and the U.S. back in 1997 and 1998, the pigeons were moving fine at first from Nantes, France, to lofts all over England navigating without a problem with all the RF emissions being generated in towns/cities. Normally about 95% of the homing pigeons return home to their lofts even with all the constant RF emissions over the areas the homing pigeons use to navigate. So it is not possible that in those instances RF emissions were the problem of the disruption. The disruption coincided with the fly over of the Concorde SST as it's turbines were generating infrasound.

Apart from that research there is the work of biologists, and neuroscientists who have found that the echolocation, the magnetoreception, and/or electroreception of many species are disrupted by infrasound and low frequency sounds. The evidence clearly shows that infrasound, and low frequency sounds produced by turbines are behind many negative health effects on humans, animals, and certain species of insects.

If anyone was able to provide evidence that disproves these findings I would change my mind.

Then there are the...statements made by members like jrod claiming "none of that is science" or making asinine claims like "you are not insulting me, you are insulting science", or "you are a science denier" while claiming to be a scientist himself and continuing his illogical ramblings, none of which either make sense or are true. That is in fact attempts to derail the thread. When members like jrod, and some others want to make the thread about "oil and CO2", that is derailing the thread... Which btw, I could address those other topics derailing my own thread but it will not change their minds because those topics have been discussed in other threads, and of course instead of addressing the topic a lot of people resort to making the same claims made in this thread.

Then there is the member who implied that anyone disagreeing with the use of energy from wind turbines "must be an oil shill"... All of the examples I gave above which tried to derail the thread and made continuous ad hominem attacks at me, that is not based on a sound conclusion reached by empirical evidence. It is just people who do not want to change their minds.

Oh, and btw I am not being paid by "big oil" or have any type of contract to post all this information... If I see a problem, such as the one this thread is about, I make a thread about it and try to give as much information as possible.

originally posted by: C0bzz
A few times people have mentioned solar energy and wind energy as being expensive. This isn't so, very often they are some of the cheapest available energy sources of electricity. In Australia solar panels are more often installed on the homes of lower class families, rather than upper-class. Why? Because it saves them money. Richer people are more worried about them affecting the value of their real-estate...

There are some "areas" where people can get government help to pay and install solar panels, but it doesn't cover most people in the low to middle class. Also so far I haven't seen or heard mentioned that "the Bronx" or other similar areas have been remodeled, and that there are solar panels that have been installed all over paid by the government. In the end, a majority of people even among the low middle class and poor don't apply for any type of subsidy to install solar panels in their homes. Which btw, it would be more viable to have individual homes being installed with solar panels than having solar farms in rural areas provide energy to cities.

originally posted by: C0bzz
So in all interesting thread, I don't think your approach is quiet right but you could definitely do something that not many or nobody has done before if you follow through with it.

I have been posting whenever I can, and truthfully with the ad hominem attacks being allowed, and people like jrod just being interested in derailing the thread by making illogical ramblings don't help much in keeping this thread civil.

edit on 6-8-2014 by ElectricUniverse because: add comments.

posted on Aug, 5 2014 @ 11:15 PM

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Most of what I have read is that sub stations, power plants, high voltage wires and wind turbines etc... (in other words anything that carries or produces electricity) creates SOME infra-sound and it bothers SOME people. It is completely illogical to demonize one over the other on the specific issue of infra-sound.

I am sorry, but you continue not understanding. Do you even know how infrasound is generated by wind turbines? During high winds the rapid spinning of the blades causes vibrations which in turn produces infrasound and low frequency sounds. Electricity isn't the cause. Electricity produces a humming (not infrasound), and a magnetic field which can affect people living "under" power lines, but this buzzing, and the magnetic field is not the same as the low frequency sound and infrasound generated by wind farms, or the magnetic fields being generated by each motor covering long areas. Infrasound and low frequency sounds generated by turbines affect much larger areas than the buzzing sound from power lines or power plants.

BTW, it doesn't just "bother some people", at least please read the information provided if you want to participate. Even when people can't hear, or fell infrasound it affects them negatively in many ways it isn't "just a bother"... People being affected by wind turbines show real physiological maladies. For example, in women it affects ovulation and can induce several menstruations a month.

edit on 6-8-2014 by ElectricUniverse because: add comments.

posted on Aug, 6 2014 @ 12:26 PM
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Thank you for all your efforts here. I'm a slow learner, you're gradually getting this information through to me.
edit on 6 8 2014 by Kester because: addition

posted on Aug, 7 2014 @ 03:49 PM
a reply to: Kester

We are all here to learn. Unfortunately there will always be people that won't listen to reason. I don't care about oil. Even when we need plastics, and rubber which comes from oil I have explained many times in the forums that we should be recycling the large mainly plastic garbage patch in the Pacific. That would be a good problem that we can solve. But I digress, as going deeper into these issues will derail the thread.

BTW, everyone of you that thinks that "green technologies" means it's all good for the environment and us. Take a look at smart meter technology and the complaints by many people whose health has been affected by the strong EMF being generated by this technology.

The new smart meters are stronger than the old technology we have used in the past, and despite the fact that there have been many complaints about health issues being caused by the smart meters, this technology is branded as being "good for us and the environment".

Likewise wind farms cause more harm than good and people need to be made aware of these facts.

edit on 7-8-2014 by ElectricUniverse because: add comment.

posted on Aug, 12 2014 @ 04:35 AM
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Getting wildly conspiratorial I suspect smart meters are pushed on us in order to make use of their alleged surveillance and remote weaponry capabilities. I was asked to talk at a WiFi meeting recently and guess what? I suddenly became too ill to attend with a strange feeling in my centre as if being beamed.

Back to turbines. Yesterday I passed a 'green' housing co-op. It was moderately windy and the large turbine they have bolted onto the gable wall was making a considerable amount of noise. It made me wonder what it sounds like from inside the building. Looking at it from a practical viewpoint I think it could damage the building and perhaps tear loose and endanger neighbours in a storm. It seems more like a badge of allegiance to 'green' values than a sensible idea.

The power of language is often overlooked. I'm tempted to start a thread suggesting 'green' means inexperienced and ignorant.

The plastics in the oceans. Steadily breaking down to smaller and smaller particles to be spread throughout the ecosystem. It would be hard work with little profit to recycle it, so the entitled ones go on building wind farms etc. while smugly congratulating themselves on their 'green' credentials.

edit on 12 8 2014 by Kester because: add word

edit on 12 8 2014 by Kester because: change word

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