Research: Possibility that Wind Turbine Farms, Solar Panel farms, and Large Green Projects to Genera

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Yea !
We see birds flying into solar panels all the time where I live. I know for a fact that eagles have no where near the reflexes or agility to go around one of those hyper-sonic wind turbines.

Lets tear then all down and keep digging that coal. Yep! "Drill baby drill"!

Who needs good air to breath or clean water to drink. Our grandparents didn't seem to have a problem with either one.

a reply to: teamcommander

A simple array of LEDs could make the blades more visible to burns, especially at night. Maybe a clever paint job to make it look more visible during the day. Make the darn things look like thunderbirds.

A few dead birds and bats is a much better alternative than burning fuel for power.

a reply to: Kester

Is it possible for you to describe for the readers what your actual experience is? My suspicions about all on grid 'renewables' could possibly be mitigated by some personal success stories. Though of course the longevity issue will be a difficult one to prove without a time travel machine.

I´ve been working as an electrician (means 3.5 years apprenticeship) for around 10 years, installing homes, industrial plants. I personally installed hundreds of PV modules. In the earlier days, some DC/AC converter had to be replaced but they got that straight over time. Later, I went to study my electronics engineering grade in robotics. Since then I have been working for the swabian company FESTO as a electronics and software engineer.
I had my fingers in almost any of the animal-inspired projects. I wrote the code for the seagull and set stage for almost every other project with the self learning code. If skynet is real, it will start with FESTO seagulls and kangaroos

This is no secret, I mentioned it several times here and even had a special for ATS in the drawer some time ago about a project that will revolutionize robotics from the ground up. Not revealed yet because no answer from the staff about a possible strawman account for me to post. Now it´s to late. Back to topic.

On my roof, I´m running 30kWp photovoltaik modules. I generate more power then we need and the rest is injected into the public power grid giving me a whopping 43€cent/(kW/h). The system is running nearly 9 years now and not one module or DC/AC converter went dead. So this is my actual experience.

I would not cement my view about a topic just because you experienced two faulty heat pumps and some hearsay from a worker that was probably talking # or being misunderstood. The faulty pumps were probably from the same manufacturer or not installed properly. They are loud as hell, that´s for sure though. Smart Meter emitting EMF? True, too.
How did the PV system damage the integrity of the roof? This can only be caused by faulty installation.

a reply to: jrod

You still continue not understanding what is going on, and what will really happen if more and more wind farms are built...

Do you not understand that migrating birds, and insects like honeybees won't have any way of knowing where true north is? Are people like you really that obtuse that you cannot comprehend, after being explained to you several times, that the side effects of winds farms will certainly cause more mass deaths of animals and insects that use electroreception and magnetorecption to navigate, and/or to migrate north to find their feeding and breeding grounds?... For crying out loud the evidence is right in front of you and you still keep claiming the contrary...

Honeybees use the position of the Sun and the Earth's magnetic field to know where their sources of food is, and where their hive is at when they need to return to it...

The Earth's magnetic field is already weakening, and it has been weakening at a faster rate. With more wind farms being built all over rural areas honeybees and other insects, migrating birds, and other terrestrial mammals will not be able to recognize where magnetic north is... Plus all the wind farms that will be built in the oceans will have the same effects on marine life that also use Earth's magnetic field as a guide to migrate.

You want to talk about mass extinctions being caused by mankind?... Just wait until more and more wind farms are built.

a reply to: teamcommander

First, you need to understand that in this thread in specific, all the negative effects I was pointing out are from wind farms. I did not go into detail on solar farms.

Second, if you want to talk about clean air, and clean water this is not the thread for it.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Why would an em field act differently based on the source? Do power lines powered by solar act differently than power lines powered by coal? Why would solar panels or their batteries be different than transformers or power stations?

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

I know what is going on. Personal attacks, demanding answers to impossible questions, making false claims, bogus links, weak studies. Ect...

As I stated before, nothing you bring to this thread is remotely scientific.

Do you think that the grid doesn't already produce EM fields?

a reply to: jrod

It's PV. Glad to hear of a functional solar farm.

I didn't buy anything. The landlords representative was fooled by the salesman. It wasn't a single pump. It's been over fifteen ground source heat pumps all of which have been replaced with either more advanced ground source pumps which are also giving problems, noise, much greater energy consumption than advertised, and problems with automatic control, or air source heat pumps which are using more energy than advertised and are extremely noisy. They can be heard by neighbours, not just next door neighbours, those further away as well.

I agree there are new ways of generating electricity which should be used. I particularly like the little gadgets that convert heat from a tiny wood gasifier into enough electricity to run a laptop. Keeping online in an urban campsite at the cost of a few scraps of wood that are burnt without smoke sounds good to me.

a reply to: LDragonFire

Apologies for being off topic, ElectricUniverse.

Where are the reviews for a relatively new technology that hasn't been around long enough to be thoroughly tested? I know ground source heat pumps have been in use for a hundred years or so but they have been described as a good idea that has never been perfected. The landlords representative was fooled by a salesman and many of the claims have proved to be simple lies. The 'renewables' trough is also a major temptation that catches people over and over again.

Anyway, it's rude to be so off topic. Thank you for providing your impressive credentials. Look forward to seeing you on a PV specific thread where we can give good advice to readers who may be considering investing in a system. Our PV is supplying 1.42 KW at this moment.

originally posted by: Kali74
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Why would an em field act differently based on the source? Do power lines powered by solar act differently than power lines powered by coal? Why would solar panels or their batteries be different than transformers or power stations?

I have already mentioned why. Wind farms have to be built in rural areas because of the space needed to harvest wind power, and of course it also is based on the fact that because in rural lands there are no large buildings and wind turbines can make use of more wind power with the least deterrent. But, covering rural areas with wind farms means less, and less space for migrating animals, and for insects to use land as a way to detect the natural magnetic field lines of Earth. Then there is also the problem of low frequency sounds and infrasound generated by wind farms.

Electric power plants don't help either and more so because of the toxic chemicals they emit such as arsenic, chromium, nickel, mercury, NOx, SO2 and acid gases. However, making it worse by building more and more wind farms, including at our oceans and seas is not going to help anyone. The toxicity of wind turbines comes in the form of low frequency sounds and infrasound which are very detrimental to the health of people and animals.

Here, let me show you a close up of one of the many wind farms that have already been built.



Now, here is again a general map of wind farms in the U.S.



www.usgs.gov...

Think of it as wind turbines adding more static interference, such as when you are in a car with your radio turned on and suddenly your car radio gets static interference. Wind farms, as well as solar farms add more "static interference" (for lack of a better word) in rural lands interfering with the ability of migrating birds, and other animals, as well as the ability of insects such as honeybees to use electroreception and/or magnetoreception. Not only do they cause interference on animals and insects biological abilities of using electroreception and/or magnetoreception, but wind turbines also produce low frequency sounds and infrasound that negatively affect the health of humans and animals. Note again the email I gave of a doctor in Canada stating clearly that other doctors should expect an increase in the amount of people reporting "wind turbine syndrome". Animals and insects can't communicate with us about the problems wind turbines cause, although they are more sensitive to the negative effects of wind turbines.

The more wind farms there are the more areas where all these animals and insects will not only detect static but will also be more affected by the sound pollution generated by wind turbines. wind turbines cause confusion, a long list of detrimental side effects and interferes with the inability of animals and insects which have a natural biological ability to use electric and magnetic fields to navigate, find food sources, their areas where they breed, or in the case of honeybees this "static" would not even allow honeybees the ability to find their way back to their hives. This has been happening already, and in part it's been because of the anomalies occurring in the Earth's magnetic field. Wind farms, and large solar farms makes this problem worse.

Whatever source of energy we use has to be located over the smallest sections of land possible, and wind farms, and solar farms make this task impossible. Unless, and I see a possible future in this, there could be large solar panel farms built in outer space harvesting the power of the sun and then being delivered to us. We could even harvest the power from the solar wind itself as it meets Earth's atmosphere. But it will take decades for us to achieve this. We should focus for the time being in researching how to harvest the energy of thunderstorms and Earth batteries sources of power that are closer at hand.

If we continue building wind farms and solar farms over rural lands things will surely get a lot worse, and there will be many more deaths of animals and disappearing honeybees among other insects. Not to mention the negative effects on humans as well.

Perhaps some of you will remember that for many years I stated in these forums that these rapid changes occurring within the Earth's core would continue to happen and increase. The changes going on with Earth's magnetic field will only continue to increase as the entire solar system moves within the new section of the Local interstellar cloud.

The changes happening to Earth's magnetic field will continue and reach a climax in who knows maybe 100 years, maybe 2,000 years. No one really knows. However as I have mentioned for many years in these forums we will see an increase in magmatic and seismic events, and at the same time because more and more wind farms and solar farms will be built in rural areas there will be essentially no place left for many species of animals, and insects to detect the natural magnetic field lines of Earth.

a reply to: jrod

The only one that has been doing nothing more than using personal attacks and derailing the topic has been people like you... Not once have you provided any logical counter-argument or even evidence to dispute the work I have provided in this thread... Instead you keep resorting to name call me, and you even claim that the work of "real scientists" is "pseudo science...

Get off your damn high horse already, you keep showing not to know a damn thing about this topic and you keep trying to derail it every chance you get. You are so blind as to the topic that is actually being discussed to the point that you claim that the work of "real scientists" like Alec N. Salt, Is "pseudo-science". Alec N. Salt has a Ph.D., in Cochlear Physiology, he has a M.Sc. in Neurocommunications, a B.Sc. in Biology, plus he is a professor at the Washington University School of Medicine St. Louis, MO. You provide nothing but insults, name calling and trying to derail the thread at every whim you get.

How about you TRY to discuss the topic, show in specific how the work of scientists like Alec N. Salt are wrong by giving an intelligent counter argument. Try that for a change otherwise stop derailing the thread...

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
a reply to: jrod


Get off your damn high horse already, you keep showing not to know a damn thing about this topic and you keep trying to derail it every chance you get. You are so blind as to the topic that is actually being discussed to the point that you claim that the work of "real scientists" like Alec N. Salt, Is "pseudo-science". Alec N. Salt has a Ph.D., in Cochlear Physiology, he has a M.Sc. in Neurocommunications, a B.Sc. Biology, plus he is a professor at the Washington University School of Medicine St. Louis, MO. You provide nothing but insults, name calling and trying to derail the thread at every whim you get.

This is exactly what you do and then flip it around on those who disagree with you. Don't like the message so keep attempting to tear down the credibility of the messenger, keep up your rabble I find it mildly entertaining.

Who is this Alec Salt guy? Never heard of him. Me thinks you are trying to put words in my mouth. It seems like you blatantly lied here to make me sound like a nut-job. The jury on this board is out and it is obvious what the educated and experience members of this board think of you rantings.

It is foolish to try to convince educated citizens that renewable alternative power plants are some how worse for the environment than what we currently are utilizing.

a reply to: jrod

Yet again you supply NOTHING of substance at all but try to claim to be the victim when it has been you from the beginning who has partaken in derailing the thread, using name calling and proclaiming "those are not scientists" while claiming you "consider yourself a scientist" when you just keep proving not to know what you are talking about.

The topic of the thread in specific are "wind farms" and the fact that they cause more harm than good. Now try to stay on topic and offer an intelligent argument showing the flaws on the work done by scientists like Alec N. Salt. BTW, you haven't heard of him because "you are not a scientist" and you don't know a damn thing about Cochlear Physiology, it's that simple, but even that fact seems to escape you. You can do a search on google on Prof. Alec N. Salt and several pages showing his work and info will come up...

Here let me help you with one link...
oto.wustl.edu...

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

I am a scientist. In the other thread that you kept attacking me in you pulled the same little stunt. I am doing a much better job of keeping this thread on topic than you buddy. If you feel that myself or anyone else is intentionally causing thread drift then alert the MODs!

I have posed important questions to this thread that you have ignored. I do contribute some pretty darn good ideas that you choose to ignore too.

So I will pose this question to you again:

What would happen if the Oil and Energy industries received this much scrutiny?

a reply to: jrod

What the heck does this thread have to do with that other thread?... If you want to discuss that other thread respond there... This thread is not about that other thread or about your feelings being hurt, and like I said you can consider yourself to be Einstein if you want, but you have not shown an ounce of knowledge about the topic in this thread...

AGAIN, post an argument in which you discuss how the research done by scientists like Alec N. Salt is wrong... Otherwise go to that other thread and post there...

Making false generalizations such as

originally posted by: jrod
...
As I stated before, nothing you bring to this thread is remotely scientific.

or...

originally posted by: jrod
...
Furthermore your posts(not just this thread) are consistent of a science denialist.

This is not how you present a logical counter argument showing the flaws in the research done by the scientists whose work I have shown in this thread, such as the data and analysis done by Prof. Alec N. Salt on the negative health effects on people caused by the low frequencies and infrasound generated by wind turbines...

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Fail on your part.

You expect me to instantly either vouch for or attempt to discredit some random PHD you cited. That is not science dude, that is slimey debate tactic. For me to even make an opinion on this guy I will need some time to read/research his work. Not something that happens in a few minutes.

So I will play along. Because I cannot discredit your PHD you win! Alternative power plants are bad and we just need to keep drilling and burning our fuel because that has worked so far and because we are still alive so it can't possibly be bad.

You are not insulting me, you are insulting science!

a reply to: jrod

I did not ask you for an "opinion on that guy"... I asked that you provide specific evidence proving that the research and data done by Prof. Alec N. Salt is "pseudo-science" as you have claimed... BTW, thanks for pointing out the fact that you did not even bother to read the work done by Prof Salt, or that you couldn't even understand what his research was about. At least that's some progress.

Now, if you want to participate in this thread stop going around in circles making false generalizations and PROVE how the data and analysis done by the scientists mentioned in this thread is wrong... Name calling, trying to derail the thread by bringing up fracking, or any other topic that has nothing to do with this thread is not how you present a valid argument proving your point and showing the "flaws" you claim exist on the work done by those scientists mentioned in this thread...

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
a reply to: jrod

I asked that you provide specific evidence proving that the research and data done by Prof. Alec N. Salt is "pseudo-science" as you have claimed...

Show me the proof that I claimed that Salt is 'pseudo-science'?

Wind generators produce decent power per area. There is no reason why we should not have them on our power line poles feeding juice into the grid. The vertical wind generators do not have the same noise issues as the traditional fan style turbines.

originally posted by: jrod
...
So I will play along. Because I cannot discredit your PHD you win! Alternative power plants are bad and we just need to keep drilling and burning our fuel because that has worked so far and because we are still alive so it can't possibly be bad.

You are not insulting me, you are insulting science!

One more thing. I've never proclaimed to have a Ph.D. on Cochlear Physiology, that's Prof. Alec N. Salt's achievement. My field of expertise is on computer and on electronics engineering, but that isn't either the topic of this thread.

I also have to wonder why would you consider another person's accomplishments as mine. I don't "own or have" Prof. Alec N. Salt. He is a person. I also don't have his Ph.D. I have merely presented his research on the detrimental effects caused by the low frequency sound and infrasound generated by wind turbines, as well as presenting the work of other scientists showing the detrimental effects that wind (turbine) farms have on people and animals.

BTW, what relevance does the following claim of yours has on this thread?

originally posted by: jrod...
You are not insulting me, you are insulting science!

I have never insulted you... I pointed out the fact that you haven't presented a valid argument to dispute the research presented in this thread. All you keep doing is making false generalizations, just like that last statement you made, and you keep going around in circles trying to derail the thread and proclaiming the work of scientists I have shown on this thread is wrong. Meanwhile showing that you can't even understand what they are talking about.

BTW, that last comment you made.

originally posted by: jrod...
You are not insulting me, you are insulting science!

That is not helping "science" in general at all...

Now, how about you stop making such claims and just try to discuss the topic at hand?

originally posted by: jrod


Show me the proof that I claimed that Salt is 'pseudo-science'?

Seriously... I am not going to do this again. Read your own responses...

originally posted by: jrod
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

No. Nothing in that study is remotely scientific. It is pseudoscience put out there in an attempt to make 'green' alternative sources of energy sound bad. Propaganda!

Furthermore your posts(not just this thread) are consistent of a science denialist.
...

For crying out loud you keep doing this same thing on other threads as well. You claim one thing and on that same thread then proclaim not to have written such remarks.

originally posted by: jrod
...
Wind generators produce decent power per area. There is no reason why we should not have them on our power line poles feeding juice into the grid. The vertical wind generators do not have the same noise issues as the traditional fan style turbines.

An electric power plant, or a nuclear plant generate more power than one wind farm, yet they have negative side effects and wind turbines also have a lot of negative side effects...

The premise of this thread is not a discussion of the power generation of wind farms used for consumption... The premise of this thread are the negative side effects that wind farms and wind turbines in general have on the health of people, and the negative effects wind farms also have on animals and insects that have the biological ability to use electric and magnetic fields to navigate, feed, breed etc, etc...