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Spiritual Reorientation 10: The Art of Life

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posted on Jul, 23 2014 @ 10:53 AM
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I doubt your doubt.




posted on Jul, 23 2014 @ 11:14 AM
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a reply to: Aphorism



No one is a failure when they seek spirituality. The spiritual caste is a myth. There is no spiritual ladder with many rungs, no pecking order, no spiritual king of the hill. If you have ended seeking, you have ended seeking. You have stopped. You have concluded. Your curiosity has waned. Nothing more.


Theres no such thing as seeking spirituality and I never said anybody was a failure. Curiosity waned? If a person is just entertaining a curiosity, it's NOT seeking.
What is found, although it can be pointed to, is not a communicable find, not a deduced conclusion. But no questions remain, it burns up EVERYTHING including ALL the philosophies, beliefs, both religious and spiritual ideas conjured by a seeking mind and makes it all completely irrelevant. It destroys the limited perception of body/mind and transcends ALL the silly rambling thoughts that come out of it (e.g. Your threads).

Back to the question you keep avoiding on multiple threads: forget about what everybody else has said or written in the past. Right here and Now, you front and center:

What do YOU know about yourself and the universe? In one sentence preferably. No drawn out rambling response about anything else but THAT question and don't juxtapose your answer with anything else, including all the philosophers, sages, religions and spiritual philosophies. Just YOUR words as if there were only two people on the planet..you and me. I don't care what you're opinion is of other peoples religions or spiritual beliefs. Cast all of it aside. Just you and your words in the spotlight. What knowledge of self or the Universe do you have? Not your opinions, ideas, nor your philosophical standpoints or work-in-progress summation, but FACT. Do you know more than Socrates?

I hope for your sake, you see that these are rhetorical questions.



posted on Jul, 23 2014 @ 11:23 AM
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originally posted by: BlueMule

originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: BlueMule

my definition of mystical pertains to mysticism:

belief characterized by self-delusion or dreamy confusion of thought, especially when based on the assumption of occult qualities or mysterious agencies.


i reassert my earlier assessment, that a lot of your claims and explanations dont differ a whole lot from the garbage you find on third-eye and chakra-therapy blogs.


That's a junk definition. It has no basis in academic scholarship or empirical science or personal experience. It is based on ignorance and it panders to prejudice.


and yours doesnt? hahahahahaha......funny.


Parson warns that "what might at times seem to be a straightforward phenomenon exhibiting an unambiguous commonality has become, at least within the academic study of religion, opaque and controversial on multiple levels". The definition, or meaning, of the term "mysticism" has changed throughout the ages.


en.wikipedia.org...-EB-Mysticism-2
edit on 23-7-2014 by TzarChasm because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 23 2014 @ 11:26 AM
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originally posted by: Aphorism
About meditation. I bet if they tested a group of people told to stare at the back of their eyelids, and a group of people told to meditate, the results would be the same.


You don't DO meditation. Meditation is permanent, it's not an act. Regardless if you're running, sitting, fighting or playing. The meditative practice, which is the act you refer to, is just a means to that permanent end. Closing your eyes and staring at the back of your eyelids has absolutely NOTHING at all to do with meditation, is not a meditative practice, does not take you there and does not yield any where near the same results.

Wow... It's astounding that you don't know this. I mean, this is your thread and you don't even know what meditation is?
edit on 23-7-2014 by Visitor2012 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 23 2014 @ 11:28 AM
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When contemplatin' meditation one is meditatin' on contemplation.



posted on Jul, 23 2014 @ 12:21 PM
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a reply to: TzarChasm




from my understanding, meditation is about willfully activating functions that your brain is already capable of. its not supernatural or mystical, its the same principle as slowing your heart rate.


You're right, it's not supernatural, or mystical. Meditation itself, has nothing whatsoever to do with 'activating' anything in the brain or the body, let alone willfully. Even though It may yield positive physical and psychological benifits.

Perhaps, you're confusing meditation with relaxation techniques? (because you mentioned slowing heart rate). Or the Western idea of meditation which is sitting with your eyes closed and chilling out for a period of time waiting for something to happen.
edit on 23-7-2014 by Visitor2012 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 23 2014 @ 12:33 PM
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originally posted by: Visitor2012
a reply to: TzarChasm




from my understanding, meditation is about willfully activating functions that your brain is already capable of. its not supernatural or mystical, its the same principle as slowing your heart rate.


You're right, it's not supernatural, or mystical. Meditation itself, has nothing whatsoever to do with 'activating' anything in the brain or the body, let alone willfully. Even though It may yield positive physical and psychological results.

Perhaps, you're confusing meditation with relaxation techniques? (because you mentioned slowing heart rate). Or the Western idea of meditation which is sitting with your eyes closed and chilling out for a period of time.


meditation often employs relaxation techniques. and yes you are activating a brain function in the same sense that you activate your eyes when you open them in the morning.



posted on Jul, 23 2014 @ 12:43 PM
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a reply to: TzarChasm




meditation often employs relaxation techniques. and yes you are activating a brain function in the same sense that you activate your eyes when you open them in the morning.


You don't activate your eyes when you open them in the morning. They're always activated. Tell me, what specifically is being activated in the brain? Since you say this is willfully being done.

edit on 23-7-2014 by Visitor2012 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 23 2014 @ 12:50 PM
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originally posted by: Visitor2012
a reply to: TzarChasm




meditation often employs relaxation techniques. and yes you are activating a brain function in the same sense that you activate your eyes when you open them in the morning.


You don't activate your eyes when you open them in the morning. They're always activated. Tell me, what specifically is being activated in the brain? Since you say this is willfully being done.


for your reading pleasure...

en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Jul, 23 2014 @ 01:08 PM
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a reply to: TzarChasm

This is only the after-affect or RESULT of the meditative state. My question remains. What specifically are you doing to your brain to make those changes happen? You said willfully. If you have to cut and paste the answer from somewhere else, it's safe to say you don't personally know what you're talking about.

To clarify what I'm trying to say. When you go to sleep, you don't willfully go unconscious. You willfully lay down, and close your eyes perhaps, but sleep comes and it has certain physical and psychological benefits. But there's no willfully going to sleep. Thus no 'you' doing any of it. The benefits happen without any involvement from your conscious awareness or psychological intents.

So what are you willfully doing to your brain, to bring about these meditative results?
edit on 23-7-2014 by Visitor2012 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 23 2014 @ 01:33 PM
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a reply to: TheLaughingGod


Your memory betrays you. I have never said I have experienced enlightenment, and if I did, it was probably in mocking.

I’ve never doubted the evidence of meditation. The effects of meditation is visible, and not much different than any other form of exercise. I’ve said this countless times, which perhaps are invisible to those with such selective reading abilities. But personally I would rather have a physician with me than a man sitting on the ground meditating. A physician has saved many lives. The man sitting and meditating however? I invite you to take a seat beside him, and do best to stay out of another’s way.

So far, as you’ve proven to me, the only argument against my insights is that I have no experience. I’ve also mentioned many times the extent of my forays into spiritual endeavours, which are perhaps invisible to those readers with such a selective eye. I have actually travelled the world and practiced spiritualities in the very deserts, jungles and mountains they began in, with the very people who started them. I am a traveller first and foremost. I have been seen as a bad omen, a curse, an infidel, a blasphemer by many of these people. It sounds like you are endowed with their unique ability of conjecture—the divine power of all mystics—judging someone you know nothing about according to very little evidence.



posted on Jul, 23 2014 @ 01:34 PM
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a reply to: BlueMule


My experience surpases yours, but that doesn't mean I want to make you my servant.


I would have to agree that your experience in meditation surpasses mine. I prefer to move, myself. I still have so much of the world to see that I’d rather not spend my time sitting in a cave with eyes closed. If I or someone else ever requires someone to sit and meditate, I will refer you.


Do you think I'm trying to recruit you into a religion and milk your resources? I'm not selling anything. I don't run a church. I'm not trying to beat you into submission with trojan horses so that I can exploit you.


I don’t think you are trying to recruit me. You couldn’t if you tried. We are merely discussing our opinions.



posted on Jul, 23 2014 @ 01:35 PM
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a reply to: Visitor2012


What is found, although it can be pointed to, is not a communicable find, not a deduced conclusion. But no questions remain, it burns up EVERYTHING including ALL the philosophies, beliefs, both religious and spiritual ideas conjured by a seeking mind and makes it all completely irrelevant. It destroys the limited perception of body/mind and transcends ALL the silly rambling thoughts that come out of it (e.g. Your threads).


But, that would make what you write right now irrelevant. I can agree with that.


What do YOU know about yourself and the universe? In one sentence preferably. No drawn out rambling response about anything else but THAT question and don't juxtapose your answer with anything else, including all the philosophers, sages, religions and spiritual philosophies. Just YOUR words as if there were only two people on the planet..you and me. I don't care what you're opinion is of other peoples religions or spiritual beliefs. Cast all of it aside. Just you and your words in the spotlight. What knowledge of self or the Universe do you have? Not your opinions, ideas, nor your philosophical standpoints or work-in-progress summation, but FACT. Do you know more than Socrates?

I hope for your sake, you see that these are rhetorical questions.


I know that I am reading your words. I know that I am drinking coffee, and that I am procrastinating when I should be working. I know that my leg is presently broken, due to a mountain bike collision, and have been using crutches lately. Are you going to tell me I do not know these things? Are you quite sure you know what “know” means?



posted on Jul, 23 2014 @ 01:36 PM
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a reply to: GetOutOfMyLight




When contemplatin' meditation one is meditatin' on contemplation.


The bard and his nuggets of wisdom. I cherish it.



posted on Jul, 23 2014 @ 01:44 PM
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a reply to: Serdgiam

This is a very key point, Serdgiam. It is indeed a form of social programming. The idea that action is futile or worthless has been taught by spiritual authorities for a very long time. It is simply an objection, and not any truth.



posted on Jul, 23 2014 @ 01:47 PM
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a reply to: TzarChasm

If you want an unbiased look at mysticism, William James wrote the book. It actually ends up being pro-mysticism believe it or not.

The Variety of Religious Experience



posted on Jul, 23 2014 @ 02:13 PM
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a reply to: Aphorism




I know that I am reading your words. I know that I am drinking coffee, and that I am procrastinating when I should be working. I know that my leg is presently broken, due to a mountain bike collision, and have been using crutches lately. Are you going to tell me I do not know these things? Are you quite sure you know what “know” means?


So basically you know what you perceive your conscious self to be doing at any given moment. Outside of that, what do you know? So far your knowledge doesn't warrant writing pages of threads about nothing.

I can appreciate the practice and Zen-like approach to (chop wood, carry water) which you seem to be so proud to display, but so far, in all these rambling threads about subjects you half-heartedly studied, misunderstood and clumsily generalized, I don't see any knowledge from you worth wasting the time to write about.

Just say 'I travelled the world, tried few different techniques, toured a few spiritual routes, read a few books but in the end, all I know is that my leg is broken' and call it a day? Why all the threads about nonsense?
And if you don't have any experience with meditation, and all you can say is 'I bet blah blah blah....' Why are you speaking about it? This is a constant pattern of yours.... When will it end?
edit on 23-7-2014 by Visitor2012 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 23 2014 @ 02:28 PM
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a reply to: Visitor2012

what difference will it make for you, knowing the answer to those questions?



posted on Jul, 23 2014 @ 02:29 PM
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originally posted by: Aphorism

I don’t think you are trying to recruit me. You couldn’t if you tried. We are merely discussing our opinions.


Then there is no need to fear trojan horses, tangled webs. There is no need to distrust my motives. I have nothing to gain from you, and nothing to lose.

And remember the first rule of Opinion Club: You do not talk about Opinion Club.

Oh and welcome aboard.


edit on 855WednesdayuAmerica/ChicagoJuluWednesdayAmerica/Chicago by BlueMule because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 23 2014 @ 02:30 PM
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originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: Visitor2012

what difference will it make for you, knowing the answer to those questions?


What difference will it make for you if YOU find the answers to those questions? Because I know without a doubt, you're trying to find them.
edit on 23-7-2014 by Visitor2012 because: (no reason given)




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