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So what do you mean when you say spirituality?
It may be that the problem lies in your own perception of spirituality. And what is beyond that anyway?
In the same way you use generalities about prophets, or mystics, or I'll call them for that matter "people who found the truth". I have no idea what your experience with mystics is but there is no way you checked them all out and find them all liars. It's like a woman, or two, or three cheated on you and you come to the conclusion that all women are bad; let's just give up women.
This is another huge generalization who only further confuses the topic. But even so, let me tell you this: no matter how you put it and what you believe, our life in this world is highly unsatisfactory, and I don't need a religion or a mystic to tell me that.
I see spirituality not as a weakness but as a hope that maybe there is more of this life than those material satisfactions, so I can understand the stressing to remove the focus from the material world. This life is not the final purpose. And when you finally realize that we are so much more than this material body the world is losing it's weight on you.
Another point I want to make is that you use intellectual tools for an argument that is actually in the realm of experience; and it will never work. It's like you never tasted water; you don't know what it is.
There are some other things, but I will summarize it with this: in the end you are doing just the same like everybody else. I mean, your post sounds like ''stop chasing spirituality cause it will never give you happiness, do it my way to find happiness". Is not what every prophet out there is saying, my way is the real one?
There is your answer Clark. You are like a tourist in a nation of water-tasters. You run around trying to tell them what's what, but you can't understand what they are saying because you don't speak their language. You can't speak it, until you drink.
But the water-tasters can understand your tongue, and they can see you speak about something you don't know.
Personally, I don't believe there is ever an end to the 'seeking'; whatever that may be for the individual, and that is the question "What are you seeking?".
“Before enlightenment; chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment; chop wood, carry water.”
I would add the word 'Repeat!" at the end of that Zen quote above.
Meditation is the path I use to further my spirituality. At one point on the my path of deep meditation fear set in, but I have since found my strength and faced whatever was to be revealed to me with courage.
Well there’s no way you’ve checked out all mystics, and there is no way you can confirm that they are all “people who found the truth”. You’ll need a better argument. You cannot prove that they are telling the truth and I cannot prove that they are lying. That is the mystic’s failure: their knowledge can only be confirmed by themselves.
originally posted by: Aphorism
a reply to: InTheLight
Personally, I don't believe there is ever an end to the 'seeking'; whatever that may be for the individual, and that is the question "What are you seeking?".
“Before enlightenment; chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment; chop wood, carry water.”
I would add the word 'Repeat!" at the end of that Zen quote above.
Meditation is the path I use to further my spirituality. At one point on the my path of deep meditation fear set in, but I have since found my strength and faced whatever was to be revealed to me with courage.
I use extreme sports and adventure to further mine. I've used that same courage you speak of to base jump and fall mere feet away from a rock face at breakneck speeds. Courage is an important tool.
originally posted by: Aphorism
a reply to: BlueMule
There is your answer Clark. You are like a tourist in a nation of water-tasters. You run around trying to tell them what's what, but you can't understand what they are saying because you don't speak their language. You can't speak it, until you drink.
But the water-tasters can understand your tongue, and they can see you speak about something you don't know.
And what is that, mule? Tell me about something I do not know. This is the only argument you’ve been able to offer. “You don’t know”. Bravo. And why should I believe that?
In other words, spirituality is living life with eyes turned inward. You are exploring only your own mind and the back of your eyelids. Seriously. You are really discovering and exploring nothing, and using words to make it seem like you are doing something. The world goes on around you.
The problem lies in your own perception, ie. you imagine that you are accomplishing something by sitting and “exploring” within.
What are you accomplishing?
Well there’s no way you’ve checked out all mystics, and there is no way you can confirm that they are all “people who found the truth”. You’ll need a better argument.
Your hope only brings you hope. That is all it is capable of. But if you cannot embody your spirituality, and act out what until now is only your words, it is meaningless. What does realizing we are so much more than this material body imply? Only reward. Immortality. Permanence. No more suffering. Nothing but spiritual monopoly money. Let’s see you embody that and bring your words into practice.
From my OP: “There is not a moment where a person is not at the exact unique center of their experience. Therefore, what comes out of this experience is entirely original, spoken from a place no one else can speak from. Though they may act similar and speak similar things, each person is an original, a life’s work, a becoming of a masterpiece, and a unique way to live a life—a prophet."
If you are unable to come up with your own spirituality, you will forever remain a follower.”
It's obvious that you hold a grudge against spirituality, that's why I told you to lighten up. Other than that your only argument is too keep asking for others to prove something to you.
Living my life is living life as it is, and spirituality is part of it. I don't live in a cage, I don't shave my head and I don't open threads preaching my spirituality to others. So what do you know about my life, how do you know what I experience or discover, really? You imagine things about people that are doing something you obviously don't get it, and for some reason you feel the need to berate them and feel superior. Well, I'll tell you what. Some people are tone deaf, other don't see all the colors. You can't get meditation or spirituality, no big deal. But stop discarding anyone else who DO get it; this is not honest searching, is fooling yourself.
No, I don't have a problem; you are the one making a thread about how useless spirituality is, and when I ask you what exactly are talking about you turn on personal remarks.
Who cares? Seriously. This is not a job application, nor a marketing plan that must meet a certain quota by the end of the year. Spirituality is a little like sex; intimate, personal and everyone is doing it in their own way. What, you really expect someone will come here and tell you" oh, I have x-ray vision already and by the next month I'll be able to have direct communication with heaven", so you can asses their accomplishment and decide if you enroll or not?
No, not all of them have found the truth, but that doesn't mean that none of them have, does it? I only need one to be genuine to prove my point; you need to check them all because you refute them all.
What is exactly that you want to see embodied? I really don't get what you're really looking for, a Jesus walking on the water? What's wrong with no more suffering, are you one of those who believe that being happy is wrong? You said you know about -quote- "various religions, various spiritualities, pilgrimages and trained in various schools of thought and spirituality." So what is it that you looked for and didn't find, because seriously your arguments sound more like frustration than honest searching.
Well, it may be exciting to find and patent your own spirituality, but life is short, and I will not waste it in trying to reinvent the wheel, nor dwelling into the 'prophet syndrome" just to satisfy my ego. There are people out there who hold enormous wisdom, that are willing to share and help; and I always considered myself a practical person.
There can be only one truth, but there are many ways to get there; so please don't belittle those who chose a different path than yours. I AM a follower, and I consider myself extremely lucky because of that; and no, it doesn't mean that I follow like a robot. All that a master can do is to show you the door, is you who must open it and get through. By means of discovery and exploring, just the same way you came up with "your own" spirituality.
I personally couldn't care less, and also I'm not into comparing "spiritual credentials", I don't try to enlighten no one.
Science and scholarship can lead you to see for yourself what it is you are missing out on that mystics are not. When you do see, the explosion of your reaction will be proportionate to all the resistance to it you have put up over the years. You will truly be a very powerful Superman, Clark.
So, what was revealed to you via those adrenalin-fueled experiences?
Meditation yields a surprising number of health benefits, including stress reduction, improved attention, better memory, and even increased creativity and feelings of compassion.
For example, neuroscientists observing MRI scans have learned that meditation strengthens the brain by reinforcing the connections between brain cells.
Other studies, for example, have shown that meditation is linked to cortical thickness, which can result in decreased sensitivity to pain.
Or take the 2009 study with the descriptive title, “Long-term meditation is associated with increased gray matter density in the brain stem.” Neuroscientists used MRIs to compare the brains of meditators with non-meditators. The structural differences observed led the scientists to speculate that certain benefits, like improved cognitive, emotional, and immune responses, can be tied to this growth and its positive effects on breathing and heart rate (cardiorespiratory control).
Meditation has been linked to larger hippocampal and frontal volumes of gray matter, resulting in more positive emotions, the retention of emotional stability, and more mindful behavior (heightened focus during day-to-day living). Meditation has also been shown to have neuroprotective attributes; it can diminish age-related effects on gray matter and reduce cognitive decline.
Neuroscientists have documented the way it impacts on brain activity itself. For example, meditation has been associated with decreased activity in default mode network activity and connectivity — those undesirable brain functions responsible for lapses of attention and disorders such as anxiety, ADHD — and even the buildup of beta amyloid plaques in Alzheimer’s disease.
And finally, meditation has been linked to dramatic changes in electrical brain activity, namely increased Theta and Alpha EEG activity, which is associated with wakeful and relaxed attention.