originally posted by: paraphi
a reply to: Agent_USA_Supporter
What has been picked up, or not, has yet to be revealed.
The fact that most of the Western world's governments with access to material from satellites and other surveillance were quick to suggest a missile
from an area controlled pro Russians may imply they have evidence of some kind. Just because they have not released this does not mean it does not
Perhaps, the politics here are about trying to give the Russians a way out.
I tend to agree with this.
Also, if you read the Ggole translate of the Russian language comments on the "computer evidence"
Youtube "evidence" disputed
it seems there are tricks with this - time zones, GMT, UTC,
reposting, deleting etc.
Please correct me if you are an expert, but the guy talking in the video in US English just doesn't sound like an expert to me, just an informed
civilian too sure of his being in the right.
The technical info (what type of missile) again sounds to me like it could be argued both ways - separatists (or even Russians) or Ukrainians.
However, there are two big question marks in my mind, as a non-committed person to either "side", having grown up in Eastern Europe. Actually,
1. What gains would seriously have the Kiev government by shooting down a bunch of Dutch etc. including 80 children? They would have to misuse their
national air controller network, cover all the tracks, remove all leaks of info to the military - risk their very existence and organize a huge
conspiracy - for precisely what gains?
Now, I grant you they are anti-Russian, and they co-operate with and include far rightists, even some local Nazis.
Don't tell me that yes, they would risk this merely to put the blame on the Russians - that's not the logic of effective warfare or planning. That
is the sound of total paranoia, of the psychiatric kind, the kind we have been hearing from Palestinians and Israelis.
I just don't think the Kiev "junta" is that efficient, neither that it is so evil to the boot. To murder 300 foreign civilians in cold blood - with
the aid and abetting of the state and its facilities, for no tangible gain but merely to stage a dangerous and risky PR operation which could
backfire? In a world where rockets are - recorded by satellites? And airline controllers are recorded?
Just think, please people - if the slightest evidence comes out that it's the government, they are done for. They would be far more culpable than if
the armed rebels fired a mistaken shot which is cloesest to the now prevalent MSM theory.
2. The Ukrainian military so far appeared to be far less organized and efficient recently than the Russian one. Remember the Crimea? How the Russians
took several ports, all the hardware, and blocked path to the UA ships? Remember arms seized by the Russian-backed rebels? Try doing that to the IDF
and you will see...
The fact that they bombed a few sites (again a mistaken and inefficient stategy), and that some of them are obviously full of hatred and paranoia does
not make them as efficient as to organize this terrorist act which would require a large conspiracy planned for decades to come with secrecy - merely
for a dubious PR fame.
Just compare: if 911 was not done by the Arab terrorists the USG ascribed it to, whoever organized luring the US into it was far more intelligent -
and there are several parties with cui bono
But is there anyone here? The State of Ukraine would risk everything - everything, its very existence, and all the support of independence and all the
money from the West for decades to come, if the slightest evidence turns out that the State murdered innocent foreign civilians - and look how
efficient they have been recently. Angry, nationalistic, yes. Efficient, no.
Could State Air Force commanders strike out on their own, without orders, and launch rocket missiles? Not likely. Could a rebel army that is currently
fighting a state anywhere in the world? Yes, easily, and they have actually done similar things.
If military airplanes fired the shots - don't they recognize a Boeing from far closer in the air than the earth missile launchers?
It is just far easier to conceive that a rebel commander tried their recently seized weapons cache on something they could not even identify well
(maybe they do not have access to state communications).
3. How on earth are these "rebels" so well equipped and trained? I mean, there hasn't been so much time. This isn't the Congo whre fighting has
gone on for decades. The conflict erupted this spring, and here they are, suddenly with tanks, all ground forces with sophisicated and expensive hand
weapons, all in uniforms etc. They surely surpass the Hamas operatives.
People, the Ukraine is a poor country. I don't even understand how these folks can be away from work for months on end. In this part of the world,
over 80% of people cannot even go on a two-week holiday annually.
It's OK people protested for weeks on Maidan but - this is a professional army. We're not talking about a bunch of dissatisfied civilians spending
the grandmother's coffin money on a bootleg AK-47. Do you know how much a tank costs these days by the way?
How on earth do you get tanks, flamethrowers - and recently even anti-aircraft missiles (whether they used them in this case or not)? I mean third
world dictators usually buy stuff like that, not Eastern European civilians afraid of possible ethnic violence.
Which means that rationally speaking, these guys are far, far from being innocent and well-meaning. They have BIG money and professional weaponry and
training behind them.
I'm surprised no one catches on that.