Why Kiev Brought Down Flight MH-17…

a reply to: Liberal1984

Your arguments are good. For me it is not a black and white situation, but a setup.

The situation is created to pin it on Putin - the NWO has to keep its flock occupied and distracted as it loses support.

I can understand.

Official version of Russia.

And what you never mentioned but is a major smoking gun is that the uploaded video had a time stamp from the day before the event as alledged by Paul Joseph Watson,an Infowars journalist who broke it all down brilliantly.So if the implications are true along with other smoking guns of deflected flight paths and the Ukrainian Spanish flight control operator tweeting frantically that Kiev did it before his account being deleted then we have CUI BONO.

I don't know who is responsible but i know this WMD's were pure fiction and once a liar always a liar.It's best to get down to Investigative science and ask"who had the motive?"

originally posted by: Liberal1984
As for whoever did this awful thing: They need to be brought to justice

There is no justice. Justice is a concept to make some people feel better and give others something to say.

A buk missile battery is not something you carry in the trunk of a car. I can see Russia supplying shoulder fired missile launchers to Rebels to repel attacks by low flying aircraft, but these cannot reach an aircraft at 33,000 ft. A Buk battery is a much more lethal and sophisticated weapon, and Russia would have no gain, in supplying these without Russian military control.
There has to be satellite imagery, radar tracks and other info to identify where the missile originated. Why are these being withheld if they want to implicate Russia? Why do we only receive foggy rhetoric. Where is the smoking gun implicating Russia?
Furthermore, the rebels and Russia have no incentive to encourage more NATO intervention in Ukraine. If anything, they want NATO gone. In a crime we look for motive, means and opportunity. Russia and the rebels have no motive, the means for the rebels is highly questionable, but given the first two anyone could have had the opportunity. We must also question the reasons why Malaysia airlines would want to fly over a hot zone when other airlines issue instructions to flight crews to avoid this area.
What we do get, is what we see always, in a propaganda war designed to soften the American public's resistance to war. Do a psyops with the hearts and minds of the public, and whip them into a sense of moral outrage. We do this by showing a horrific debris field littered with pristine children's toys and coloring books and then get some overpaid talking heads to spin the desired reality on television, for the masses to inhale. Didn't we see this with babies taken out of incubators and thrown on the infirmary floor in a Kuwait hospital prior to the invasion of Iraq? Didn't we see this with people jumping from windows in the twin towers prior to the 9/11 attacks? There, the spin overlooked the fact that the perpetrators were all Saudis and concentrated on the need to invade Afghanistan rather than our ally and principal oil supplier, Saudi Arabia.
Why do we see the same methods used over and over again? Because it is easy to play on the sentiments and emotions of a non thinking public and dupe them. Then, to put the icing on the cake you dredge up a highly respectable Secretary of State with impeccable and outstanding morals, to confirm what the public has been led to believe; The Ruskies done it. This is a page right out of the false flag recipe book.




a reply to: Liberal1984

hell they could have sent Secretary of State, John Kerry in as an unbiased election monitor. He did this in the recent Afghanistan vote. a reply to: stumason

Pretty simple to me.... most things are at some point to all of us.
Those that are stopping people from getting to the site have something to hide.....

a reply to: DogMeat

The thing is, now the Ukrainian forces waging figths with rebels near Donetsk, are the ones who delay the investigation with their fighting. It is obvious that rebels allow people to go to the crash site. OSCE SMM was there, and independent journalists and so.

Forensic experts seem to be still in Kiev. Why the delay? Ukraine says it is not too safe yet...

The ukrainian forces try to capture a train station too, with the bodies. The fight is real because the actual leader of the RIght Sector told about it, whereas official ukrainian media said that it was clear, no one is firing. Forgot to cooperate i guess.
Meanwhile it is officialy declared by Poroshenko that there should not be fighting in 40 km radius of the crash site.

Russia Says Has Photos Of Ukraine Deploying BUK Missiles In East, Radar Proof Of Warplanes In MH17 Vicinity

www.zerohedge.com...

Wrong Aircraft Identified As Malaysia Flt MH-17 Fuels Doubts

www.veteranstoday.com...



Video of Rebel Buk Launchers Headed Back to Russia?

globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com...

According to sources from the journalist Robert Parry (wiki/Robert Parry (Journalist) the CIA has a satellite photo from the location where the rocket was shot.

[...]
Regarding the shoot-down of the Malaysian jetliner on Thursday, I’m told that some CIA analysts cite U.S. satellite reconnaissance photos suggesting that the anti-aircraft missile that brought down Flight 17 was fired by Ukrainian troops from a government battery, not by ethnic Russian rebels
[...]

from: consortiumnews.com...

Whenever I try to post a link to this article in a reader comment of German MSM, it is not published. So this gives me some confidence that this news must have some truth in it. Also astonishing how much reader comments are censored, if they contain links to interesting information. NSA not only spys us, but also controls our MSM, huh?

Tired of these conspiracy theories. Work yourselves into a frenzy. Whereas, real people in the real world are getting things done.

I'll believe there's a conspiracy when there's good evidence. I haven't seen any. Internet speculations do not qualify.

Do you really think our government (in parallel with the EU and others) would help Kiev to cover up their failed attempt to assassinate Putin or some other stupid rationale? Come on, this is the real world. I'm sure there have been some conspiracies in the past, but not everything is.

The pro-russian rebels have conclusively shot planes down:
nypost.com - Ukraine protestors get violent outside Russian embassy in Kiev...

Protesters hurled eggs and overturned diplomats’ cars Saturday outside the Russian embassy in Kiev just hours after the Ukrainian president vowed to attack Russian-backed rebels who killed 49 people when they shot down a military cargo plane.

The air attack early Saturday morning over eastern Ukraine — just miles from the Russian border — came as Russian-made tanks and rocket launchers flooded into rebel hands.
.........

Russian is smuggling weapons to eastern Ukraine to feed these rebels. Since htey shot down planes in the past, I don't see it as being a stretch that they "accidentally" shot down MH-17.

originally posted by: jonnywhite
Tired of these conspiracy theories. Work yourselves into a frenzy. Whereas, real people in the real world are getting things done.

I'll believe there's a conspiracy when there's good evidence. I haven't seen any. Internet speculations do not qualify.

Do you really think our government (in parallel with the EU and others) would help Kiev to cover up their failed attempt to assassinate Putin or some other stupid rationale? Come on, this is the real world. I'm sure there have been some conspiracies in the past, but not everything is.

The pro-russian rebels have conclusively shot planes down:
nypost.com - Ukraine protestors get violent outside Russian embassy in Kiev...

Protesters hurled eggs and overturned diplomats’ cars Saturday outside the Russian embassy in Kiev just hours after the Ukrainian president vowed to attack Russian-backed rebels who killed 49 people when they shot down a military cargo plane.

The air attack early Saturday morning over eastern Ukraine — just miles from the Russian border — came as Russian-made tanks and rocket launchers flooded into rebel hands.
.........

Russian is smuggling weapons to eastern Ukraine to feed these rebels. Since htey shot down planes in the past, I don't see it as being a stretch that they "accidentally" shot down MH-17.

They shot down a military plane in a time of war. Isn't that how it works?

All I see now, from Ukrainian side is grasping for straws.

Btw, I am Russian. But i don't watch our TV media, because it has its fair share of propaganda. Not obvious propaganda, but subtle and working.

But that fact doesn't discredit everything our government says on foreing affairs arena.

If the Ministry so publicly gave this version, these facts and evidence to all the press - they are confident in it and are not much afraid to be debunked.

I didn't see any good claims from Ukrainian side.

I used to believe in intercepted recordings of rebels, and was basing my version of the happening on that - meaning i thought the rebels mistook the passanger plane for military... But now, i doubt the credibility of this source.

Is it respectable to show Youtube videos as proof? Not original recordings for analysis?

a reply to: Liberal1984

I have not seen a single report anywhere that states that the 'rebels' or whatever you want to call them shot this plane down on purpose. I mean, I have not seen ANYTHING stating that they knew they were firing at a civilian plane...

Can you show me somewhere credible that reports this?

a reply to: Liberal1984

This thread is Thought provoker as it should be in respect to the memory of those 298 victims and furthers ones that could come from lies and disinformation from snakes!

Has I have stated in many threads already i ask, to the truth seekers:

Why STILL don't We know the answer for this basic Question:

Where are the recordings from Kiev aerial traffic control?

why it's taking so long to listen to that recordings?

Aren't they essential to determinate the conversations between the pilot and control, before, during and after the change on the flight route to the conflict zone?

Why we immediately ear from Ukraine "secret services" the rebels conversation instead of Kiev Aerial Traffic control?

Why these kind of questions aren't asked on the media?

originally posted by: jaws1975
Without even looking at the evidence of this event, you have to ask yourself who is the most likely to benefit from it? The same way it was beneficial to the US to claim Assad gassed his people as a pretext for intervention, this benefits the US because Russia is in the middle of destroying the dollar with the BRIC central banks. link

Not to mention Israel's ground invasion of Gaza on the same freaking day, come on people this was coordinated!

Thanks Jaws, and a bumped Winner! The Zionistas running the US
and all the rest of us into the dirt with their own funny money don't
want any legitimate competition from a coalition this big and strong
...at all.

You can take a look at the equipment both sides are using in this last
"skirmish" in general and think proxy war. And it could all end badly,
when twits this inept are run by invisible puppetmasters this evil.

The latter may want it all to happen and very soon. All that worries
me is most of the stuff getting pulled now is either so old in the
playbook or so sloppy it looks like they don't care about being caught.
I keep on saying it, we should all look at the very old and strange ties
between the Ukraine and Israel.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Star for you!
Thank you for bringing in some sanity to this forum. I just went and wasted my time looking up the chemical attack BS by someone here and you are correct. People who post this crap never admit they fell for some good ol Russian propaganda and continue believing it. I knew better, but you have to sometimes take the time to see if a comment is factual.

I am deeply concerned for the families of the passengers and I was happy to see at least someone in the rebel camp was decent enough to allow people to come in and claim the bodies before the Russian vultures had picked their pockets clean. I could not believe they were actually stealing from dead bodies. At least RT isn't reporting any longer that it was the Ukraine forces going after President Putin. (Were we supposed to feel sorry for him) I missed that part.

originally posted by: stumason

originally posted by: victor7
Soon Germany will want to break away from the EU for the same reasons.

This just highlights the total disconnect in your BS - Germany break from the EU?

They ARE the EU!

LOL. I had to laugh at that statement too. I don't know where some people get their information. Maybe from RT! Then again maybe they dream this and then tell the story so many times they actually believe it.

a reply to: Liberal1984

How do you explain this:
news.yahoo.com - US says recordings of Ukraine rebels admitting MH17 downing 'authentic'...

......
Ukraine's SBU security agency on Thursday released recordings of what it claimed were phone talks involving rebels and a Russian military intelligence officer admitting that they had hit the passenger jet after mistaking it for a military aircraft.

The recordings were presented as key evidence to back up Kiev's claims that rebels -- supported by Russia -- downed the jet while the separatists accused Ukraine's army of being responsible.

"Audio data provided to the press by the Ukrainian security service was evaluated by Intelligence Community analysts who confirmed these were authentic conversations between known separatist leaders," the US embassy in Ukraine said in a statement.
......

So the intelligence community of the US government is purposely lying? Idk, but I trust them more than a random thread by an ATS poster. They've got the resources to find out whether it's fake or not.

And here:
abc 6onyourside.com - FLIGHT MH-17: U.S. Outlines Case Against Russia on Downed Plane...

.......
"It's pretty clear that this is a system that was transferred from Russia into the hands of separatists," he said.

Video of an SA-11 launcher, with one of its missiles missing and leaving the likely launch site, has been authenticated, he said.

An Associated Press journalist saw a missile launcher in rebel-held territory close to the crash site just hours before the plane was brought down Thursday.

"There's a buildup of extraordinary circumstantial evidence," Kerry said. "We picked up the imagery of this launch. We know the trajectory. We know where it came from. We know the timing, and it was exactly at the time that this aircraft disappeared from the radar. We also know from voice identification that the separatists were bragging about shooting it down afterward."
.......

So John Kerry, the US Secretary of State is lying?

I don't see many people saying "It's Russia, it's Putin!" They are saying that pro-Russian forces, trained and equipped by Russian military, caused this event. Russia is not directly responsible, but I imagine they are indirectly responsible.

People seem to forget how recently Russia cleverly intervened using "pro Russian militants." They are not taking their commands from some local field General. So while I don't think Russia told their proxies to shoot down a civilian plane, I believe they were trained and equipped by Russia. Russia did not use a tight enough leash on their tools of dissent, and this is the result. Why people have to try and make it so complicated boggles the mind.