Malaysia MH17 crash: 10 questions Russia wants Ukraine to answer

originally posted by: bjarneorn

originally posted by: SkepticOverlord

Russia Today is propaganda.

Well, retarded rhetoric ... you use the word "propaganda", without even comprehending it's meaning.

Questions 6, and 7 are what matters. No matter who shot the plane down, the air traffic controllers and Kiev eventually are responsible for allowing a commercial flight to deviate off course, over a war zone.

Not to mention western flight plans, allowing ANY flight to fly over Ukraine.

Ever try and get facts before spurting propaganda rubbish. Fact : the international air corridoor over the Ukraine "war zone" above a height of 32000 ft WAS NOT RESTRICTED. It was left to each airline to determine whether they wished to fly there or not.

DUH .

Latest info : the rebels are preventing the international investigators from approaching the wreckage (pretty obvious why), bodies are being removed by rebels (pretty obvious why), wreckage is being removed by rebels (pretty obvious why).

Try this little factoid. The russians have not actually said Kiev brought down the plane. What they have said is that Kiev is responsible for what happens over its territory.........think about it, it's not hard unless you believe RT is the only truth on the planet and Putin is a lovely, cuddly warm person.

a reply to: yorkshirelad

Latest info : the rebels are preventing the international investigators from approaching the wreckage (pretty obvious why), bodies are being removed by rebels (pretty obvious why), wreckage is being removed by rebels (pretty obvious why).

Standard CYA. if the rebels didn't do, why would they not want the proper investigation to clear them? Doing this to the bodies of passengers states much about the quality of thought they have toward innocent people.

Ukrainian controllers directed the flight over a rebel hot zone, and Russian separatists shot it down.

Who is the most responsible for this avoidable tragedy?

Does it really matter?

originally posted by: defcon5

1. Immediately after the tragedy, the Ukrainian authorities, naturally, blamed it on the self-defense forces. What are these accusations based on?

Hows about this:

Well i was waiting for this video to be posted and the timeline embedding/coding was done a day before the event so,it was made already to roll out and if that's true as Paul Joseph Watson clearly states in the below video then the conspiracies are going to run wild.
Go to the 4 minute mark.
www.youtube.com...

a reply to: ausername

Ukrainian controllers directed the flight over a rebel hot zone, and Russian separatists shot it down.

Okay this has been addressed so many times but here you go...

It was on it's original flight plan that took it over Ukraine, there were numerous planes who flew the same path this one was just the unlucky one that the separatists misidentified and brought down.

It was never diverted nor was it sent over Ukraine on purpose.

Here read this...

www.latimes.com...

I know Russia would like to deflect this from themselves but, lets use some common sense here. The Russians and/or the Russian seperatist have been shooting down planes in the area and bragging about over the last few weeks. Logic would dictate that the made a mistake and shot down this one as well. They did not shoot down a passanger liners on purpose they most likely just had mistaken it for another cargo plane. And since the rebels have no planes eveything in the air is assumed to be hostile. It is a terrible thing but, it happens. Russia's attempt to cover it up is just going harm its global image even more.

originally posted by: FraternitasSaturni


Seriously SO...

And if I didnt know you and this forum better I would say you were trying to sway and shape opinions to whatever it more favorable to the west's interests.... all this eager to shut down RT's views and when do we get to see the forum owner REALLY taking a stance on a real actual subject

Indeed.... I've been wondering this too.
This is very odd and I have no idea why.

a reply to: tsurfer2000h

Depends entirely on which propaganda you are inclined to believe.

originally posted by: SkepticOverlord
Very nice collection of Russian propaganda, straight from the main source of propaganda, Russia Today.


Seriously folks… why?

What makes asking questions propaganda? I mean they can be used that way if the Russians know the questions won't be answered, but until then, they're legitimate questions that need answers.

originally posted by: MrSpad
I know Russia would like to deflect this from themselves but, lets use some common sense here. The Russians and/or the Russian seperatist have been shooting down planes in the area and bragging about over the last few weeks. Logic would dictate that the made a mistake and shot down this one as well. They did not shoot down a passanger liners on purpose they most likely just had mistaken it for another cargo plane. And since the rebels have no planes eveything in the air is assumed to be hostile. It is a terrible thing but, it happens. Russia's attempt to cover it up is just going harm its global image even more.

Well playing devil's advocate here, Kiev also knows that the rebels shot down some military planes. If they wanted to gain more support from the West, they could have shot the plane down, knowing it would be pinned on the rebels.

a reply to: MrSpad

Yes, let's use common sense, by all means.

What advantage did the Russians or the rebels gain from shooting down an airliner?

Is it possible that anybody at all gained an advantage from this event, as it has been presented so far?

originally posted by: FraternitasSaturni
And ATS considers it one of the most reliable source of information...

How on earth can ATS - or anyone - consider a state funded Russia Today as a reliable source of information, especially in matters concerning Ukraine? RT is hardly going to report anything that contradicts their paymasters are they? You need to think this through!

To the OP. There are quite a few questions for Russia, not least whether they supplied any anti aircraft systems to the pro Russian separatists. Either way, Russia needs to work to calm the situation and control the separatists whose leadership comprises some Russian nationals. Only by proper investigation can the truth be found, although that fact alone may prevent a proper investigation!

Regards

a reply to: paraphi

Only by proper investigation can the truth be found, although that fact alone may prevent a proper investigation!

I agree, but in order for truth to be established the whole picture of the Ukraine crisis needs to be addressed. And regardless of who is saying what or what propaganda is getting thrown around, until evidence is presented, no-one can say who is responsible, it's all just accusations for now.

On the issue of RT, I have studied media and watched various news channels, I still say RT is interesting and not the usual "support this side or that side", they actually present evidence to at least give food for thought and do more research (to those of you that have actually watched RTs programmes, you'll know what I mean).

Also, judging by some of the comments on this thread, I don't think some of you have actually watched a lot of programmes on RT.

EDIT: As I write this, this report apears on the BBC, I reiterate that no-one has been found guilty yet, however:

Meanwhile, Prime Minister David Cameron and his Dutch counterpart Mark Rutte have called for the European Union to "reconsider its approach to Russia" following the disaster.

On this note, the western media is trying to lead some of us like dogs on a leash, RT has only so far lead me to check on some things

originally posted by: Zcustosmorum
I still say RT is interesting and not the usual "support this side or that side", they actually present evidence to at least give food for thought and do more research (to those of you that have actually watched RTs programmes, you'll know what I mean).

Russia Today support a pro Russian position, as you would expect as they are the voice of the Russian authorities. On evidence; what would they report if it was found Russia were complicit? At the moment, all I can see is RT pushing a line which blames Ukraine and supports a holier-than-thou Russian position.

The most plausible explanation is that the pro Russian separatists took a pot shot at something they did not think was an airliner. The question is whether Russian advisors were on hand and / or Russian equipment was used.

Regards

a reply to: paraphi

Russia Today support a pro Russian position, as you would expect as they are the voice of the Russian authorities. On evidence; what would they report if it was found Russia were complicit? At the moment, all I can see is RT pushing a line which blames Ukraine and supports a holier-than-thou Russian position.

Yeah, and the commies are coming to get you, unreal

originally posted by: MrSpad
I know Russia would like to deflect this from themselves but, lets use some common sense here. The Russians and/or the Russian seperatist have been shooting down planes in the area and bragging about over the last few weeks. Logic would dictate that the made a mistake and shot down this one as well. They did not shoot down a passanger liners on purpose they most likely just had mistaken it for another cargo plane. And since the rebels have no planes eveything in the air is assumed to be hostile. It is a terrible thing but, it happens. Russia's attempt to cover it up is just going harm its global image even more.

Yet, without casting blame:

2. Can Kiev explain in detail how it uses Buk missile launchers in the conflict zone? And why were these systems deployed there in the first place, seeing as the self-defense forces don’t have any planes?

Well?

originally posted by: Salander
a reply to: MrSpad

Yes, let's use common sense, by all means.

What advantage did the Russians or the rebels gain from shooting down an airliner?

Is it possible that anybody at all gained an advantage from this event, as it has been presented so far?

Very good question. The only reason the rebels would shoot it down, IMO, is if it were a tragic mistake. They have nothing to gain from it.

But I think this question is important:
How many planes have the rebels shot down VS how many planes have the Ukrainian government shot down?

originally posted by: roadgravel
a reply to: yorkshirelad

Latest info : the rebels are preventing the international investigators from approaching the wreckage (pretty obvious why), bodies are being removed by rebels (pretty obvious why), wreckage is being removed by rebels (pretty obvious why).

Standard CYA. if the rebels didn't do, why would they not want the proper investigation to clear them? Doing this to the bodies of passengers states much about the quality of thought they have toward innocent people.

Mercenaries..

This can go either way for me. As little trust I have in the hijacked Ukrainian government, *snip* like this can happen in hostile areas. Mistakes happen. That being said, WHOEVER approved this flight path must have been high. To address the come-back that will claim "planes have been flying over that region steady, they misidentified this one", I say explain the supposed Ukrainian rebel commander saying "Well, what were they doing flying, this is a war" (source: News1130 - Rogers Media)


Who ever did this, it is tragic. What would be most tragic is if this incident was used as an excuse to raise tension. Russia never fired a missile, Ukraine did. That is the fact here. "Russian controlled Ukraine" ?? Take responsibility for your own country for crying out loud. If you can't then let Russia back in since they seem to be the only ones that can handle the joint.

See! You pet against the grain and all sorts of static and hostility breaks out.

originally posted by: MALBOSIA
This can go either way for me. As little trust I have in the hijacked Ukrainian government, *snip* like this can happen in hostile areas. Mistakes happen. That being said, WHOEVER approved this flight path must have been high. To address the come-back that will claim "planes have been flying over that region steady, they misidentified this one", I say explain the supposed Ukrainian rebel commander saying Well, what were they doing flying, this is a war" (source: News1130 - Rogers Media)


Who ever did this, it is tragic. What would be most tragic is if this incident was used as an excuse to raise tension. Russia never fired a missile, Ukraine did. That is the fact here. "Russian controlled Ukraine" ?? Take responsibility for your own country for crying out loud. If you can't then let Russia back in since they seem to be the only ones that can handle the joint.

See! You pet against the grain and all sorts of static and hostility breaks out.

Totally agree with your point, this isn't one issue of a plane being shot down, the Ukranian crisis has been out of control for a while and throwing accusaions at each other just isn't helping anything.

originally posted by: Salander
a reply to: MrSpad

Yes, let's use common sense, by all means.

What advantage did the Russians or the rebels gain from shooting down an airliner?

Is it possible that anybody at all gained an advantage from this event, as it has been presented so far?

Logic would dictate they did not know what they were shooting down. So what advantage may or may not gain has no bearing. And in the end nobody will gain anything thing from this. Russia and the rebels will look bad of course but, lets face it Russia's reputation is already at the bottom so that will not effect much. And Ukraine comes off looking weak unable to control its own airspace will now face the World bringing pressure on Ukraine to come to some sort of settlement with the rebels it has no intrest in. So the shoot down is bad for everybody. Russia feable attempts to cover it up on the other hand is going to do far more harm than just admitting the rebels had and accident in a war zone.