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So you like your Obamacare?

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posted on Jul, 18 2014 @ 12:37 PM
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a reply to: Annee

How does one work together when one party says that you have to pass it before you can know what's in it?





posted on Jul, 18 2014 @ 12:39 PM
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a reply to: haarvik

I'm sorry to hear you're losing your job. Hopefully, you'll find greener pastures.

As for the ACA and the privacy issues having to do with the so-called "Wellness" programs, my research indicates that mechanisms for total surveillance and tracking of personal habits is being woven into the entire fabric of retail experience. There will be no privacy whatsoever. Your every move will be tracked and recorded. Everything you buy will be monitored and recorded and reported to establishment service providers such as Doctors, Clinics, Hospitals and emergency service facilities.

As far as the ACA is concerned, its my guess, (and its just a guess) that it will ultimately be replaced by a single-payer system much like the Canadian system. The most likely case scenario is that either Hilary Clinton or Elizabeth Warren will be the next President and I'd expect them to push that through in the 8 year period following the 2016 election.

The bottom line? Privacy is over and those who seek to maintain any degree of privacy will be labeled as paranoids eligible for lock up.



posted on Jul, 18 2014 @ 12:46 PM
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a reply to: Annee



I am of the "work out the kinks" supporters.

The Courts are doing that I think !!





The ACA opponents, especially the Ron Paul crowd aren't going to accept anything that's government mandated for everyone. Won't matter what it is.

That's because it's probably un-Constitutional like many things in the ACA !!






posted on Jul, 18 2014 @ 12:49 PM
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originally posted by: thesaneone
a reply to: Annee

How does one work together when one party says that you have to pass it before you can know what's in it?



Is that really the case? There wasn't information and facts you could read? Heard of Romney Care?

The original plan was written by the Heritage Group. However, wouldn't want to mislead you, read:


Qualls said the Affordable Care Act "was the Republican plan in the '90s." The bill she had in mind did have a strong roster of Republicans behind it, and it did share many major features with the Affordable Care Act. There were some significant differences but in a side-by-side comparison, the similarities dominate. However, to call it the Republican plan, as though a majority of Republicans endorsed it, goes too far. The House Republicans took a different path, and there was opposition from more hard-line members of the Republican coalition. It is telling that the Chafee bill never became a full blown bill and never came up for a vote. We rate the statement Half True. www.politifact.com...



posted on Jul, 18 2014 @ 12:51 PM
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a reply to: Annee

Is Romney running the country right now?



posted on Jul, 18 2014 @ 01:02 PM
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originally posted by: Annee
Imagine what it would be like if everyone and all political parties worked together to make a national healthcare system work instead of some doing everything they can to make it be a mess and not work.

Everything that's being said about this not working, was also said in Canada when they first introduced a national healthcare.


yes it was said that it would not work, and sadly it is all too true. it does not work. and it didn't take political parties bickering to cause it to fail. the system is badly screwed up. not enough doctors, limits on how many patients a doctor can have. doctor visits allow you to try to deal with one thing per visit (not sure if that is the doctors or the rules, but good luck finding a replacement let alone finding a better doctor). months long waits for specialists. cutbacks in covered services because of "not enough funds" like physio therapy which is expensive so many people who need it can not afford it. which of course means that something that could be treated will cause you pain for years. heck they even cut eye tests. the treatment of symptoms not the causes, "here have some opiates". depressed "don't worry about trying to deal with the underlying causes or even trying to figure out what they are "here have some nice SSRI's, if you are lucky you won't loose control and kill someone". and of course by just handing out dangerous addictive pills costs nothing since those pills have to be paid for by the patient, and some of them are rather expensive. you have to love a socialized health care system, where if you don't have a separate insurance package at work, or buy one on your own you are screwed.

yup Canadian health care is just so awesome, i had to leave the country so i could pay to get the help i needed. even better tests some retired health care professionals i knew said i should have done, after spending a year to just find a doctor that was accepting patients (one who seemed even worse than my old one), told me it would be around a year before i could get them done. by going to another country they were done the NEXT DAY.

it makes me sick when people praise Canadian health care and hold it up as a paragon. sure at one time it was good. but like anything the government controls it got screwed up and became next to useless.



posted on Jul, 18 2014 @ 01:08 PM
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Do you support a national healthcare system?

It isn't Obamacare. It would be anything. I doubt most those who say they'd support something else would, if it actually happened. I think those who are against a national healthcare system would reject any and every plan put in front of them.

I think it's pretty much, ME, ME, ME. I think a lot depends on your own and family experience with illness and medical.

I'm old enough to remember when company insurance was really good. I had my moms, then my husbands, and my own when I was working. I mostly had Aetna, which used to be really good. Then their prices doubled and their coverage was cut, pretty much in half.

Even though I had really good insurance, it cost me a thousands out of pocket. You know that show "Medical Miracle"? Where after years and years of going to doctors the patient finally finds a doctor that correctly diagnosis them? Well, that was me. I had a birth defect that went undetected until I was 50. It caused all kinds of problems that are non-reversible. Now I have Medicare. Not great, but something.

Obamacare is not the "end all, end all", but it is something. And people need something.

Those against insurance coverage for everyone, most likely don't see the need. I see the need.


edit on 18-7-2014 by Annee because: DAMN SPELL CHECK



posted on Jul, 18 2014 @ 01:14 PM
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a reply to: Annee


originally posted by: Annee
I am of the "work out the kinks" supporters.


But the problems aren't just kinks. Painting a car with square wheels will not make it go any better.


originally posted by: Annee
The ACA opponents, especially the Ron Paul crowd aren't going to accept anything that's government mandated for everyone. Won't matter what it is.


Since you mention him, I was curious to see what Ron Paul actually would say about this, and not surprisingly, it's been what I have said:




Ron Paul Healthcare

In these United States of America, many people cannot afford even basic health insurance. They suffer severely under the present system and have to live under the constant fear of not knowing what they will do if they or their loved ones ever fall seriously ill.

But in many cases, insured individuals aren’t much better off either. In comparison to the exorbitant insurance premiums they pay, the medical care they receive is often very poor.

Additionally, due to the government-enforced monopolies of HMOs (Health Maintenance Organizations) and pharmaceutical companies, many patients will never even hear about some of the most effective and non-invasive treatment methods. These natural and inexpensive ways of regaining one’s health are being suppressed by the FDA and the medical establishment not because of safety concerns (they’ve been around for hundreds of years), but because they cannot be patented and would therefore cut into the pharmaceutical industry’s profits.



He continues:




The current system is most definitely broken, and it must eventually be abolished if we want to regain both our health and our freedom.

But Obamacare is the worst possible answer. All it does is perpetuate a flawed system by forcing everyone to become a client of insurance companies, even those who don’t want to or need to participate.

...

There is only one solution that will lead to true health and true freedom: making health care more affordable. Ron Paul believes that only true free market competition will put pressure on the providers and force them to lower their costs to remain in business. Additionally, Ron Paul wants to change the tax code to allow individual Americans to fully deduct all health care costs from their taxes.

Through these measures and the elimination of government-sponsored health care monopolies a much larger number of people will be able to finally access affordable health care, either by paying for medical insurance or by covering their medical expenses, which are now much lower, out of their own pocket.



You can read more... Do your own research and thinking... You are more than smart enough...


edit on 18-7-2014 by loam because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 18 2014 @ 01:20 PM
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a reply to: Annee



RomneyCare was implemented when the economy wasn't as bad. Especially in Mass.

But RomneyCare was blistered when the ACA forced changes to it.

And that old hat Heritage malarkey was also "introduced" during better economic times wasn't it.

Always a deflection to ancient history as an excuse for failure.




posted on Jul, 18 2014 @ 01:22 PM
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a reply to: loam

I like this idea. Stop pandering to the corporations to try to get the costs reduced. Pander to the people. Screw the corporations, you have to give them kickbacks to get them to do what you want willingly. These kickbacks drive prices up. OR you have to mandate them to do something which makes them not work as hard to provide what you are mandating.



posted on Jul, 18 2014 @ 01:26 PM
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a reply to: generik

Is it working? Depends on who you ask.

Just like me, you can GOOGLE --- "Obamacare Working" or Obamacare Not Working".

It's Time to Acknowledge Reality: Obamacare is Working Pretty Well www.motherjones.com...

So Much for Obamacare Not Working www.nytimes.com...

Harold Meyerson: Despite the critics, Obamacare works . www.washingtonpost.com...< br />

Major New Study Says Obamacare Is Working — Even For Republicans

Read more: www.businessinsider.com...



posted on Jul, 18 2014 @ 01:28 PM
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originally posted by: xuenchen
a reply to: Annee



RomneyCare was implemented when the economy wasn't as bad. Especially in Mass.

But RomneyCare was blistered when the ACA forced changes to it.

And that old hat Heritage malarkey was also "introduced" during better economic times wasn't it.

Always a deflection to ancient history as an excuse for failure.



I posted the link to Politifacts.

I think most of that is covered in the article. Did you read the article?



posted on Jul, 18 2014 @ 01:33 PM
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a reply to: loam

I've read enough Ron Paul to know his thought pattern.

I have zero interest in anything Ron Paul has to say.

I'm sure others will "eat it up".



posted on Jul, 18 2014 @ 01:33 PM
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No one is arguing against change needing to happen. However, what got passed is a direct slap in the face of our constitution! Do your seriously think anything the pay to play government of ours will actually come up with something that will work FOR the people? If so, I need some of what you are taking! This could have been handled so much better and truly benefited everyone. But no, the insurance carriers got their little fingers into the pie and now we are all screwed.

And look at us now. We have this mess that is taking even more of the dwindling income people have and handing it over to insurance companies. And the left are more than willing to let it happen. Instead of extolling the virtues of a failed system, how about working with your opposition to come up with a solution that benefits the PEOPLE for a change. Oh that's right, the left only does what lines their pockets and gets them re-elected....just like the right.



posted on Jul, 18 2014 @ 01:33 PM
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Speaking of Romneycare...

Massachusetts ditches RomneyCare health exchange

Let's discuss this in another 6 months.



posted on Jul, 18 2014 @ 01:34 PM
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originally posted by: Annee
a reply to: loam

I've read enough Ron Paul to know his thought pattern.

I have zero interest in anything Ron Paul has to say.

I'm sure others will "eat it up".





Same can be said about your motherjones link.



posted on Jul, 18 2014 @ 01:35 PM
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a reply to: Annee

Can tell you are a true Californian. If it isn't big government, you want no part of it. You WANT a nanny state. let the government do everything for you. Sorry, but that is not what our country was founded on. If you want that type of government then you should probably relocate to another one.



posted on Jul, 18 2014 @ 01:38 PM
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a reply to: Annee


originally posted by: Annee
I've read enough Ron Paul to know his thought pattern.

I have zero interest in anything Ron Paul has to say.

I'm sure others will "eat it up".


My bad, I thought you said:


originally posted by: Annee

MY POINT IS ---- WORKING TOGETHER TO MAKE SOMETHING WORK.



So what you really meant is only if we work on your one bad idea?
edit on 18-7-2014 by loam because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 18 2014 @ 01:43 PM
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a reply to: Annee



Like I said, "just enough" success stories.

But then again, not really enough to make a "success" of the whole thing.




posted on Jul, 18 2014 @ 01:52 PM
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originally posted by: Annee
a reply to: loam

I've read enough Ron Paul to know his thought pattern.

I have zero interest in anything Ron Paul has to say.

I'm sure others will "eat it up".



For someone spouting off about working together to make something work, you aren't doing much to foster that sort of sentiment by shutting down the views and opinions of a group of people. Heck, you've already admitted that you've written off an entire segment of the population. So much for working together huh? Or is it only working together as long as you agree to your ideas? Very Democrat of you.
edit on 18-7-2014 by Krazysh0t because: (no reason given)



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