Choosing sides with terrorists...

There seems to be a misconception on ATS at the moment...

we are a site the "Deny's ignorance" yet

it turns out its ok to take sides as innocent civilians get slaughtered....

before the flame war and backlash, this is my Rant, feel free to disprove but lets avoid childish replies...

Israel no matter how you look at it right now are being terrorists, they were given a land after the second world war so the west\western banking system had a foot hold hold in the middle east, they have chipped away at Palestine and killed its people ever since...

Now i appreciate Hamas is a militant group, bent on removing the Israeli state from the middle east, and have committed many atrocities in working towards this goal, they do not see themselves as terrorists though much more of a "freedom fighter" as they were for the most part pushed aside to allow the land to be given and oppressed ever since...

all of that aside they are as far as i am concerned terrorists....

this does not in any way change the fact that killing innocent children and women (and men) in any form as retaliation for countrymen being killed is in no way acceptable....

Why do people believe that Israel marching into Palestine (which will give them control of the Gas rich Gaza strip) is remotely acceptable?

Hamas are Terrorists, the Israeli state are terrorists, one is backed by Islamic countries and one is back by western banks...

YOU ARE LETTING THE MEDIA DEFINE THE "GOOD" GUYS AND "BAD" GUYS


the death rate for Palestinians to Israeli's suggest more innocent Palestinians are being killed than Israeli's


It is disgusting for ANYONE to accept killing by either side!

You would expect Nazi's to be held accountable for their actions
you would expect Russians to be held accountable for their actions
you would expect Al Qaeda to be held accountable for their actions
you would expect Viet Kong to be held account for their their actions


So why would an military assault on Civilians be ok in this instance....

ahh Fox news say so, the western banks say so, your friendly military says so....


*Despair*

both has flaws.. but you need to think " WHY you need to take a side in this ? " Who is forcing you to take side or another.. is this YOUR War ? Why you think one side is wrong and another isn´t.
Lately ATS has turned into ugly twilight zone, to group of people who have pointing fingers. Sad really !

Peace !

a reply to: GonzoSinister

Israel no matter how you look at it right now are being terrorists

And have been for decades , it is a crime against humanity what has been going on over there but nobody dare say anything because of what happened in WW2 , they think it gives them Carte blanche to act as they please and as has been demonstrated over the years they're right.

A rogue nation is a rogue nation regardless of political correctness.

a reply to: GonzoSinister

Hamas may lob rockets into Israel but did you know that 90% of their operations go straight to development projects in Gaza? Education, Hospitals etc...They may be terrorists to the West but apart from their rocket attacks on Israel, they are simply like any other political system...

Is Hamas only a terrorist group?

No. In addition to its Qassam Brigades, Hamas devotes much of its estimated $70 million annual budget to an extensive social services network. Indeed, the social and political work done by Hamas—and its reputation among Palestinians for being averse to corruption—partly explain its defeat of the Fatah old guard in the 2006 legislative vote.

Hamas funds schools, orphanages, mosques, health clinics, soup kitchens, and sports leagues. "Approximately 90 percent of its work is in social, welfare, cultural, and educational activities," wrote Israeli scholar Reuven Paz. The Palestinian Authority often fails to provide such services, and Hamas's efforts in this area—as well as a reputation for honesty, in contrast to the many Fatah officials accused of corruption—help to explain its broad popularity.

So are they actually a Terrorist group or is that just what the West likes to call them on the news? Obviously they are going to conflict with Israel because of their past and maybe for good reasons also.

And the palestinians should do what then ? Just roll over and get slaughtered ?

a reply to: DarknStormy

I am aware,

i Grew up in the west of Scotland with Irish Descendant family, i know full well how organisations who can be seen as terrorists by some can be both freedom fighters who actively help their communities to others...

it doesn't change that Hamas operate in an opportunistic way which endangers the lives of innocent people.


Dont get me wrong though -

Israel is an unlawful state controlled by western bankers, the way they treat the Palestinians is disgraceful...this is made worse by our "media" outlets, banks\governments\military supporting what can only be summarised as Genocide.

originally posted by: Expat888
And the palestinians should do what then ? Just roll over and get slaughtered ?

Is that a question to me?

Not at all... but attacking civilians in any form is not the way to win the hearts of the people, to move from freedom fighter to terrorist in the eyes of the worlds general populace is an easy thing to do....

but you may have missed my point....

Hamas have acted as terrorists but i am condemning the current support of Israel slaughtering the innocent people in Palestine and how it is being accepted by a lot of people here on ATS

a reply to: GonzoSinister

Nope .. an open question to the world at large ..

originally posted by: dollukka
both has flaws.. but you need to think " WHY you need to take a side in this ? " Who is forcing you to take side or another.. is this YOUR War ? Why you think one side is wrong and another isn´t.
Lately ATS has turned into ugly twilight zone, to group of people who have pointing fingers. Sad really !

Peace !

Yes, this is my war!
The terrorist israelis murdered my countrymen and her sailors and have never been brought to justice and the incidents barely ever see the light of day.
Then to top all of this off, my tax dollars go to support their terroristic ways.
I would accept an truce though, we could just stop funding their murderous regime.

a reply to: GonzoSinister

Since my years in South Africa, I had learned to define terrorism as ANY act of terror on ANY innocents, the source of the terrorism is irrelevant. Back in those days, the ANC (mandela's group) were killing, maiming and torturing innocents, primarily their own people. The South African government was not exactly innocent of terrorism either as they ruled with an iron fist, but the ratio of terrorist acts SA:ANC by comparison was about 1:1000. I was there, I worked for the military and my position was basically non-compartmentalized. The media overseas in the US, Europe and Canada mounted a huge billion dollar ad campaign and called the ANC and mandela "freedom fighters" who were working against the oppressive regime that used apartheid and the confiscation of land as its modus operandi.

Acts of terrorism occur on both sides of the Israelialestine conflict at a rate of about 20:1. The arabs in the conflict are being displaced by the Israelis, much like the ANC claimed of the SA government (except in SA it wasn't true). Both Israel and SA had/have oppressive regimes that institute apartheid. In SA, blacks, arabs, coloureds, indians, pakastanis, etc. were all considered inferior, in Israel any that is non-jewish is considered inferior.

My question (which is rhetorical) would be what is the real difference between the policies of Israel and apartheid South Africa? And if there are no differences, why isn't the world bitch-slapping Israel through economic and weapons sanctions like they did South Africa?

Cheers - Dave

a reply to: GonzoSinister
Your on a good track here. I would consider the "terrorist," as the individual/group that controls the purse. I think you could consider both of our political parties as terrorist fronts, the related media outlets just being an extension. Fighting terrorism can also lead to the perpetration of terrorism on the opposition, which is what we are seeing in Gaza, Ukraine and many other places in the world. A sad truth of the world is that those who have nothing to lose are easily lost. The U.S. and it's wealth/power contribute to terrorism on all sides, every day, as fits the need at the time. It's what wealth does, to create more wealth. First we armed Afghanistan under the guise of fighting the spread of Communism, then we achieved an attrition victory and moved our oil/drug/mineral corporates in and now fight the same that were armed by us in the first place; and who is doing the fighting? That's right, the blue collar and lower economic classes of Americans. Terrorism being practiced on both by the wealth/power of this country. Economically strapped groups being asked to fund and protect the private interests of a few, with their meager pocketbooks and limbs. Wealth creates an insidious belief that you are "right" in what you do, no matter who is hurt along the way. I'd have to go along with bobs_uruncle's post. It is nothing new and will continue until men quit accepting the method of the wealthy.