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The European Union: Utopia Or The Next Soviet Union?

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posted on Dec, 2 2004 @ 06:51 PM
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In the long history of Europe, one thing above all else is the most rare: peace.

Finally, after so much bloodshed and suffering, the vision of a new Europe united as brothers instead of divided as warriors seems to be finally within reach.

But could the new European Union prove to be a new empire with its own dark side?

Something had to be done, but is the new European Union the answer, or a new problem of its own?

What do you think about the European Union?




posted on Dec, 2 2004 @ 07:36 PM
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I think it will be an interesting experiment, myself. Kind of "socialist lite". I would love to see a Libertarian America and see how both are doing 20-30 years from now. we would have a Libertarian America, a neo-socialist Europe, a Communist Asia and a religious fanatical Middle East. This would be a great way to see which Ideology works the best



posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 02:39 AM
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Originally posted by Amuk
This would be a great way to see which Ideology works the best

The EU is no political ideology but rather an effort to unite diverse nations while preserving that diversity.



posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 10:39 AM
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Originally posted by Majic
In the long history of Europe, one thing above all else is the most rare: peace.

Finally, after so much bloodshed and suffering, the vision of a new Europe united as brothers instead of divided as warriors seems to be finally within reach.

But could the new European Union prove to be a new empire with its own dark side?

Something had to be done, but is the new European Union the answer, or a new problem of its own?

What do you think about the European Union?


Well im not a big fan of the EU, i feel that it has the potential to achieve its goal but it is very corrupt at the moment. The problem with the EU is that the fat cats want it to be better then America and is creating alot of anti feeling at the moment. With the EU wanting its own miltary, that can prove to be a dark side



posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 11:42 AM
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Originally posted by Majic
What do you think about the European Union?


I feel you in the EU, will come across a debate that been on-going in The United States of America since the Revolutionary War.
Nationalists v. Federalists, meaning: people who feel the EU should have more power, versus those who feel the member states should retain most powers.

Look at the US the way you view the EU, adn you'll see the US in a whole new way. (The term "state" should be a give away) A way it was until the nationalists won via war (The Civil War).



posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 01:58 PM
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Originally posted by BeingWatchedByThem
Nationalists v. Federalists, meaning: people who feel the EU should have more power, versus those who feel the member states should retain most powers.


- Good point BWBT.

In my view the EU is certainly not either a 'utopia' (what human construct could be anyway?) and it most definitely is nothing lie a 'Soviet Union' either.



posted on Dec, 10 2004 @ 05:01 AM
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Unfortunatly the European Union is quite different from the Soviet Union.

The EU is too soft, Amnesty International, Human Rights, all sorts of recent creations which have nothing to do with the Ancient European History.

The EU should learn from China and adopt a more tough form of regime.

"Freedom" and other womanly concepts are of no use for the Spartan Society that the EU must become.

the first Freedom is life, the second Freedom is food, all others are so low in priority that they become irrelevant.

If corrupt Democracies cannot provide food to their citizens then Freedom of speech is irrelevant. For a starving man needs food not words.

All dissent must crushed and Hyper Nationalistic Regimes put in place, the Big Assembly in Brussels should be relocated to the Vatican, gaining a quasi-legitimate status through the help of religious puppetry.

Since the majority of people are Roman Catholic, there is no place for other faiths. Their followers should therefore convert to Catholicism or face extermination. A new Inquisiton would be set up with extremely high funding making life very precarious for individuals with heretical defiance in mind.

And then... perhaps then... the EU is ready to face the Chinese.

If/after the Chinese are dealt with, the US should be next. then the World will be at EU's mercy forever. the World Governement at last. Space Exploration. The ability to wage war on Heretical Sectoids. Vorlons must be exterminated. Peace no Peace. What do you want us to do? die.

Plan B: everything fails, EU launches a huge arsenal of nukes throughout the world.

Win-"Win" scenario.



"Support by United States rulers is rather in the nature of the support that the rope gives to a hanged man."

"The survivors [of nuclear winter] would envy the dead. "

"We are on the point of producing missiles like sausages"

Nikita Khrushchev



P.S.- Seriously, no the EU isn't becoming the USSR.



posted on Dec, 13 2004 @ 12:53 PM
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IT's a socialist club and the economy is already hurting. Where they will be in the next 5 years who knows?



posted on Dec, 13 2004 @ 07:05 PM
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I believe that many, if not most of the individual countries within the EU will be too busy trying not to become Islamic states in the next 20 years to get very much else done unless you get it done fairly soon. I think you guys have about 5 to 10 years before it becomes irreversable, assuming you keep doing what some of you have been doing.

Just my $0.05. Good Luck.



Oh, yeah, I know that as an American I know little about EU politics and probably aren't qualified to have an opinion on your issues, but since so many from over there spent the last year commenting on our internal political processes, I feel justified in making a comment here and there.




posted on Dec, 13 2004 @ 07:39 PM
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I really think you Europeans better be careful what you wish for... The EU is corrupt and doing the exact opposite of what it was set up to do.


Recent statements by UN officials and open proposals within UN documents are so alarming that, if most Americans were aware of the UN's efforts they would demand immediate U.S. withdrawal from the global organization. Consider the following list of recent proposals by the United Nations:

At the June 1998 Rome Summit, the UN openly called for the ability to bring to trial any person in the world before their criminal court. In June of 1999 the UN Development Report 1999. It calls for the imposition of several types of world taxation, a world central bank, and a socialist-style redistribution of wealth. The September 1999 UN Report of the Group of Governmental Experts on Small Arms calls for global abolition of the right to keep and bear arms. From September 1999 through the present, UN Secretary General Kofi Annan delivered a series of addresses openly calling for an end to national sovereignty, the creation of world law under a global government, and the unrestricted ability of the UN to intervene in the internal affairs of nations.

These and other recent UN pronouncements have openly advocated the accumulation of all of the powers in the UN that modern governments exercise: Trial and punishment of criminals; raising armies and waging war at will; imposing taxes; redistributing wealth; imposing onerous environmental regulations; and confiscating firearms. Many of those powers are certainly not legitimate functions of government. But legitimate or not, the fact remains that these powers can only be exercised by governments.
web.umr.edu...



The UN is evil. Fact.
The UN is trumpeted by liberals and socialists as the next best thing to heaven on Earth, to them it is a virteous organisation staffed by those who work tirelessly to ensure freedom and safety across the globe.
Nice theory. The UN is filled to the brim with representatives of some of the most oppressive, un-democratic, anti-freedom regimes imaginable. That we should look to this vipers nest for guidance and rule making should be laughable, but it is not. To the liberals and socialists this is a defacto world government. This to them is A Good Thing.

www.gunculture.net...


www.unisevil.com...

Well... I guess you can see what my feelings are about the UN... Feel free to bash me all you want... But I'll take my freedom over socialism any day, month, year, decade, century, etc.

Even if its... so called... Socialism *lite*



posted on Dec, 14 2004 @ 02:30 AM
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LostSailor, why did you post material supporting your views on the UN in a thread about the EU?

What exactly do you know about the EU - if anything?


[edit on 14-12-2004 by Durden]



posted on Dec, 14 2004 @ 06:08 AM
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ack.... I've been on the NyQuil the past few days... Strep throat... well.... those are my feelings on the UN.



posted on Dec, 14 2004 @ 10:31 AM
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Originally posted by Ambient Sound
I believe that many, if not most of the individual countries within the EU will be too busy trying not to become Islamic states in the next 20 years to get very much else done unless you get it done fairly soon. I think you guys have about 5 to 10 years before it becomes irreversable,


- This is pure nonsense.

This assumes that Islamic immigration is sky high, their birth-rates are sky high and stay that way and Europeans birth rates rates stay low.

It is an alarmist fantasy.......and even then the best (worst?) projections show Holland at about 20% Muslim level by 2050.

There is no chance of an Islamic majority in any EU country this century except one......and all that depends on Turkey (
) satisfying EU standards etc etc and is almost certain not to happen until after 2015 at the earliest.

You might care to check out this thread where this topic was done to death already.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

(.....then there is the issue of why you imagine Muslims in Europe to all be some kind of fundamentalist grouping anyway?
By the way, they aren't.
)



posted on Dec, 16 2004 @ 07:31 AM
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Hmm, the EU has not yet realised, I feel, its potential. I don't want the Euro, but feel if we did unite more in other ways we could only have a good result. We could stand stronger and help each other out. Hell, the Germans offered to fix our train system but we refused. Grr


United = Better and Stronger. All nations have strength and weaknesses, toghter we could help out the weak points in nations with other nations strengths in such Areas. And it would certainly be a military of unrivaled strength and skill. Especially if we ditch that heap 'o junk the SA80.

Its far from the USSR, we don't have one-man reign, all nations contribute.

Islamic states? Not enough Islamist over here yet! And come on, we could easily crush that problem. Or wait until they've all blown themselves up...


And corruption in the EU? Not doing what it set out to? Hell, what other large Union does that sound like? One with 'states' spreading "Peace" Throughout the world? Looks damed like war to me! (Not being Anti-US for the sake of it, jsut fed up of folks thinking it is perfect).

And what is freedom *if* you have nothing? I'd rahter be oppressed and fed that free and starving. Thats why, if your wondering, some Iraqi's are fighting. They had something under Saddam, now they have nothing. Others, though, are being stupid terrorists just blowing up stuff because they want no rule or law and order.



posted on Dec, 17 2004 @ 12:50 PM
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If you read my thread about the European far right, you will see that there is a growing "white nationalist movenment" and if the EU did turn "Pro-Islam", Europe would explode. There is more chance in hell freezing over them Islam becoming a huge part of Europe.
(Sorry to muslim members of ATS, but its true)



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