How Americans Feel About Religious Groups {PEW "Religion & Public Life Project" research survey}

originally posted by: BO XIAN
a reply to: AfterInfinity

Y'all have seemed to turn

trashing my perspective

into the topic . . . though that's not really the topic either, now is it.

Well, maybe you should keep the speculation and personal commentary to a minimum and focus on what the numbers say exactly, rather than what you "interpret" them to suggest.

Stuff like this: "THAT seems to me . . . consistent with the notion that liberals REALLY DO NOT see the world in very black/white terms but all a meaningless morass of gray inconsequential well blended soup. Their "There is NO RIGHT OR WRONG, only what's right for you at the moment" nonsensical value really does show up in their choices.

The Republicans seem to live much more in the real world where some things are better and some things are worse."

This stuff is asking for someone to bite your wagging finger. So tuck it away and be professional.

a reply to: BO XIAN

Dear BO XIAN,

Good thread, if it stays within the bounds of reasonable discussion. I'm glad you presented those facts, they're interesting. Their value and importance will come down to what meaning is ascribed to those facts. They're are lots of possible meanings, and while I don't have "the" meaning, perhaps I can make a few observations.

The first question asked is "We'd like to get your feelings toward a number of groups . . ." That's a problem for me right off. Are they asking about the individuals who hold a particular belief, or are they talking about the group and it's beliefs. I always feel warmer to any individual than I do to any organization. I wouldn't know what they are asking for.

If they're asking "How do I feel towards individuals holding such and such a belief," I would have to say, 'Some are good, some are bad in any religion. I like people so I'll give everybody an 80." If they were to ask "What do you think about this set of religious beliefs, known as Atheism, Evangelicalism, or anything else," I'd be all over the map, some very high, some very low.

I believe that the people in this thread, and in the press, are going to come to differing opinions based on which approach they take. A serious discussion is going to be tricky if we don't realize that problem.

The religions that are based on Judeo-Christian beliefs are well accepted by Americans.

The exotic ones, Buddhism, etc. are properly neutral because they are not part of our history and few people know much about them. Neutral seems equivalent to "no opinion" here.

The ones actually opposed to the Biblical view, Islam and Atheism, have received some negative press. Their basic beliefs don't fit well with American beliefs. I suspect that in answering these questions, people rated them higher than they would have normally, in part because they don't want to see themselves as bigots.

Evangelicals can be our own worst critics. So, I'm not too surprised we rate ourselves lower than RC's rate themselves.

I'm not sure the numbers support that. Evangelicals rate themselves 79% and Catholics rate themselves at 80% ? For this survey, that's statistically the same number.

Where there is a statistical difference is in how non-Evangelicals rate Evangelicals, compared to how non-Catholics rate Catholics. Catholics at 58%, Evangelicals at 52%.

RC's are a very VERY . . . intensely convinced [?indoctrinated?] group about their own RIGHT-NESS, 'righteousness.' And membership is EQUATED with making Heaven vs not, if one is 'outside the fold.' So, I'd expect them to rate themselves highly. Am almost surprised it wasn't higher.

If true, then how to account for the fact that Evangelicals rated themselves as highly as Catholics? "Intensely indoctrinated," perhaps?

And as has been pointed out, the Church sees the possibility of Heaven available even for those who have never heard of Jesus. Further, going to church every week is not a guarantee of getting to Heaven.

And, the non-Evangelicals certainly have a huge percentage of folks who are disdainful to ragingly hostile toward Evangelicals--we see that daily hereon.

Welcome to the club, we've saved a space for you, right next to Judaism.

It's always a joy to speak (?) with you, my thanks for putting up this thread. It can be very valuable.

With respect,
Charles1952

a reply to: charles1952

Now there's a professional response to the data. Thank you.

Dear Bro Charles,

Am always blessed to see your name on a post. Thanks for your kind reply and very worthy points.

originally posted by: charles1952
a reply to: BO XIAN


The first question asked is "We'd like to get your feelings toward a number of groups . . ." That's a problem for me right off. Are they asking about the individuals who hold a particular belief, or are they talking about the group and it's beliefs. I always feel warmer to any individual than I do to any organization. I wouldn't know what they are asking for.

I think . . . given the context . . . that virtually all respondents would tend to assume that the query was about GROUPS--given that was the wording etc.

Now, it is likely that individuals' responses to the groups concerned depended on their associations with members of said groups--as the survey revealed.

i.e. folks who had associates, friends of a particular group saw that group more favorably; which is logical.

If they're asking "How do I feel towards individuals holding such and such a belief," I would have to say, 'Some are good, some are bad in any religion. I like people so I'll give everybody an 80." If they were to ask "What do you think about this set of religious beliefs, known as Atheism, Evangelicalism, or anything else," I'd be all over the map, some very high, some very low.

Of course! . . . because you are a reasonable, bright, honest and perceptive fellow with above average integrity. And your views of reality tend to be . . . drum roll . . . above average realistic! LOL.

Nevertheless, groups have some features which not every group member shares.


Actually, it is a truism in sociological/psychological research and statistics . . . Most GROUPS of people . . . race or almost whatever . . .

are MORE ALIKE

THAN

ARE INDIVIDUALS WITHIN EACH GROUP.

I believe that the people in this thread, and in the press, are going to come to differing opinions based on which approach they take. A serious discussion is going to be tricky if we don't realize that problem.

Ahhhhh well . . . religion and a serious discussion of any reasonableness and balance on ATS are mutually exclusive factors anyway. LOL.

The religions that are based on Judeo-Christian beliefs are well accepted by Americans.

The exotic ones, Buddhism, etc. are properly neutral because they are not part of our history and few people know much about them. Neutral seems equivalent to "no opinion" here.

AGREED. Much agree.

The ones actually opposed to the Biblical view, Islam and Atheism, have received some negative press. Their basic beliefs don't fit well with American beliefs. I suspect that in answering these questions, people rated them higher than they would have normally, in part because they don't want to see themselves as bigots.

ABSOLUTELY. The MSM succeeds yet again on molding opinion and feelings in the populace. Sigh.

BoX: Evangelicals can be our own worst critics. So, I'm not too surprised we rate ourselves lower than RC's rate themselves.

Bro C: I'm not sure the numbers support that. Evangelicals rate themselves 79% and Catholics rate themselves at 80% ? For this survey, that's statistically the same number.

YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT. My error.

Where there is a statistical difference is in how non-Evangelicals rate Evangelicals, compared to how non-Catholics rate Catholics. Catholics at 58%, Evangelicals at 52%.


. . .

If true, then how to account for the fact that Evangelicals rated themselves as highly as Catholics? "Intensely indoctrinated," perhaps?

LOL. OF COURSE! Though I think the DEGREE of "Intensely indoctrinated" in the RCC parochial schools TENDS to be higher than that in MOST Evangelical schools. Not in every case, of course.

And as has been pointed out, the Church sees the possibility of Heaven available even for those who have never heard of Jesus. Further, going to church every week is not a guarantee of getting to Heaven.

There have been personal narratives affirming both as fact. I tend to agree. Certainly I agree with the latter. And God is certainly Sovereign on the former. He looks at the heart. That does NOT mean, however, that every kindly person already has an automatic 'in.' Our own human, fleshy kindness doesn't cut us much slack, actually.

It's always a joy to speak (?) with you, my thanks for putting up this thread. It can be very valuable.

With respect,
Charles1952

LIKEWISE.

I don't know how valuable it will be. Some may learn something from it. Probably not most of those responding. LOL.

May not get back to this for a while. A friend who rarely says much of anything is co-leading the Thurs men's group tonight. Heading off to that shortly.

Have a blessed evening.

BoX

a reply to: AfterInfinity

Oh, by all means . . . lead the way!

I'd be happy to bow to your greater example on such scores . . .

In the mean time . . . it is part of the ATS culture and tradition . . . even T&C requirement for us to give our personal responses to the OP . . .

I'm not real saddened that my personal responses fail to meet with your perspective's approval.

BTW, Professionals also make stark statements of opinion in a variety of disciplines.

Those comments were within the realm of my study and experience.