Malaysian 777 Passenger Airline Shot Down Over Eastern Ukraine

a reply to: mclarenmp4

Shorter flight time home, show he has the cajones to do it, any number of reasons.

Regardless of if they were there to support the troops, they were still active warzones, with just as much danger in them as going over the Ukraine. Probably more.

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Xcathdra

Read the quote a little closer. Especially this part:

Every one of the airlines has stated recently that they were no longer flying through the airspace, due to the conflict going on, in the interest of safety.

The AIRLINES said that they weren't going to fly through there due to safety concerns, even though the airspace was open, and then flew through there anyway.

Since the airspace was open over a certain level, a level the flight was over, it was considered safe. Specifically for the airlines who flew the same path prior to and just after the incident. Any particular reason people are ignoring that?

The Malaysian Airliner was reportedly travelling at an altitude of 33,000 feet – a height considered by those within the industry to be completely safe.

Military jets typically fly at much lower altitudes, meaning it would be hard to misinterpret an airliner at such height for a threat, while many ground-based weapons would not reach such an altitude.

a reply to: Zaphod58

The US announced that POTUS had visited those countries. They never denied it.

The Kremlin is denying Putin was anywhere near the area. The intent of the RT propaganda piece was to suggest it was a failed assassination attempt against Putin. It was done to shift the focus from the civilian liner being shot down and what Russian involvement was. It was to refocus the Russian citizens attention back to the "ukraine is evil" bs.

Putin shirtless on horseback...
Hunting T-rex in Siberia...
Single handedly killing a Gorn...

Putin would brag about flying through the airspace, not hide it.

a reply to: PeterMcFly

It's plausible that that hole you're referring to was made by a missile. I wouldn't take that off the table. Just saying don't close the door yet on other possibilities as well...but yeah...good eye on that one.

And yeah sh!t happens...all the time. People have died on less mysterious and absurd means...so I wouldn't be surprised IF INDEED some rebel just pushed the red button out of sheer trigger happiness.

originally posted by: Xcathdra

Single handedly killing a Gorn...

Now thats something I would want to see!

Especially since Obama couldn't win a fight with a tribble, he would just draw it a red line

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: JanAmosComenius
a reply to: Xcathdra

Will you offer me gas at better price? And now. Not may be 5 years later when you may be build terminals?

This has what to down the Russian rebels shooting down a civilian aircraft?

This have to do with this incident almost everything. The proverbial dog piss on UA people. Everything is about energy. There is no sufficient evidence that separatists downed the plane, but you are pretty sure. You just KNOW it. You do not ask why there was Yanukovich, why he was toppled, why Timoshenko was jailed, why some obscure figure like Yaceniuk emerged and why oligarch Poroshenko is president even if he was part of Yanukovich government (and many more before). You understand nothing of reality of UA. So you probably have quite insufifcient knowladge for speculation who did it. Honestly I do not know. Be cause I'm not afflicted by this typical American impertinency to decide before I collect enough data.
And of course you do not see that Russia have any legitimate clames. USA are exceptional. Dot. And Dot. DOT

a reply to: Zaphod58

Yeah..I watched a History Channel special on that one. Bush secretly going to Iraq. Bypassing ATC at the last moment. Everyone was surprised.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Exactly but I think Zaphod has his blinkers on regarding this issue or trying to save face, either way I'm out. It's a non issue either way IMO.

originally posted by: neo96


How about spying on you, me, and everyone in between for the past 60 years.

Erm hasnt the NSA being doing that to them and us too?

originally posted by: neo96
How about arming those people who have been killing our fellow Americans in Iraq, and Afghanistan?

And havent we been arming Russia enemys to kill rusians?

Im not saying Russia are the good guys far from it.....just we are not either.

It not black and white.

Nvm

originally posted by: JanAmosComenius

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: JanAmosComenius
a reply to: Xcathdra

Will you offer me gas at better price? And now. Not may be 5 years later when you may be build terminals?

This has what to down the Russian rebels shooting down a civilian aircraft?

This have to do with this incident almost everything. The proverbial dog piss on UA people. Everything is about energy. There is no sufficient evidence that separatists downed the plane, but you are pretty sure. You just KNOW it. You do not ask why there was Yanukovich, why he was toppled, why Timoshenko was jailed, why some obscure figure like Yaceniuk emerged and why oligarch Poroshenko is president even if he was part of Yanukovich government (and many more before). You understand nothing of reality of UA. So you probably have quite insufifcient knowladge for speculation who did it. Honestly I do not know. Be cause I'm not afflicted by this typical American impertinency to decide before I collect enough data.
And of course you do not see that Russia have any legitimate clames. USA are exceptional. Dot. And Dot. DOT

Well id say this is alot of evidence.

Any updates on this?


My opinion: Russia did this.

But it's just my opinion.

LONDON, July 18 (Reuters) - Britain said on Friday that it was increasingly likely that separatists in eastern Ukraine had shot down a Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777 with 298 aboard.

A spokesman for Prime Minister David Cameron said the evidence suggested that separatists had shot down the airliner with a surface-to-air missile fired from Torez, in an area of eastern Ukraine controlled by pro-Russian separatists.

"We assess that, without compelling information to the contrary, it is increasingly likely that MH17 was shot down by a separatist missile," the spokesman said in a statement.

Ten British nationals on the plane were killed, he added.

(Reporting by Guy Faulconbridge; Editing by Robin Pomeroy)

a reply to: dragonridr
Are you able to understand original? BTW this video was discredited many pages ago.

NEWS UPDATE AS OF 3 HOURS AGO

British victims of the disaster are named.

VIENNA (Reuters) - Monitors from the Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe were not able to secure an access corridor on Friday to the site where a Malaysian airliner crashed in eastern Ukraine, the OSCE's chairman said.

"They did not have the kind of access that they expected. They did not have the freedom of movement that they need to do their job. The crash site is not sealed off," Thomas Greminger told Reuters by telephone.

"In the current circumstances, they were not able to help securing this corridor that would allow access for those that would want to investigate," he said.

Greminger, who is Switzerland's ambassador to the European rights and security watchdog, could not immediately confirm or deny reports that rebels had fired warning shots when the team approached the plane wreckage.

news.yahoo.com...

originally posted by: Zaphod58
As of the updated casualty list, there were 298 on board, with 41 currently being of unconfirmed nationality. They have positively identified:

Netherlands 154
Malaysia 43 (15 crew, 2 infants)
Australia 27
Indonesia 12 (1 infant)
UK 9
Germany 4
Belgium 4
Philippines 3
Canada 1

If i recalled correctly, the UN rep of Vietnam during the Security council meeting said that 3 out of the 4 undetermined nationality were Vietnamese.

If what Obama said there's at least one american on that flight then that must be the remaining one undetermined nationality.

After reading some posts in regards to the identification number of the supposed 9M-MRC photo posted Cor Pan's Facebook page, I started to do some of my own research. There was a specific post on ATS that listed three possible identification numbers in that picture (the picture posted was inconclusive to me, as it was blurry and I couldn't fully read the letters):

9M-MRC
9M-MRD
9M-MRO

Realizing I could not clearly see the number on the landing gear hatch, I decided to take a look myself at his Facebook page in hopes that the picture of the plane was still there, as well as his page being a public page. In fact, it is. And the picture of the plane he posted was still there. In the Facebook picture taken by Cor Pan of the airplane, you can clearly see a RC. It is undeniable that it is anything else. This started to make me wonder, as it was reported he was on the ill-fated plane that was shot down near Donetsk, Ukraine on Thursday. There have been pictures released at the crash site that show a panel of the plane which happens to have the plane's identification number on it. The picture was released by USA Today and shows a panel that has obviously been torn apart with these letters: -MRD.

If in fact the Malaysian Airlines plane 9M-MRD was the supposed plane on Flight MH17, then what plane did Cor Pan take a picture of before boarding 9M-MRD?

I then made some attempts to match everything up. I saved Cor Pan's Facebook picture of the plane with the RC markings on the landing gear hatch (9M-MRC), and did a reverse image search on tineye.com. It confirms that he didn't pull the picture from a search engine and post it to his Facebook page minutes before he boarded the flight.

This brings me to my next point; if 9M-MRD was the plane that crashed in eastern Ukraine, where was 9M-MRC located at the time of the crash. At first I thought maybe Cor Pan may have taken a picture of another Malaysian Airlines plane that was at the same Amsterdam airport, and assumed this plane (9M-MRC) was the one he intended to fly on to Kuala Lumpur. So I researched where 9M-MRC was located at roughly the same time as flight MH17 (9M-MRD) was supposed to take off. What I found was astonishing. 9M-MRC, according to flightaware.com, had departed from Auckland (AKL) at 12:26am NZST on July 16th and arrived at Kuala Lumpur (KUL) at 7:50am MYT, also July 16th. The next flight of 9M-MRC occured on July 18th, which was a flight departing from Kuala Lumpur (KUL) at 10:29am MYT and arriving at Zia International (DAC) at 11:41am BDT. The plane marked as 9M-MRC was no where remotely close to the Schiphol Amsterdam Airport on July 17th, the day that Cor Pan supposedly boarded MH17 on 9M-MRD to fly to Kuala Lumpur.

After realizing that 9M-MRC wasn't anywhere near Schirphol Amsterdam Airport on July 17th, according to flightaware.com, I tried to find a logical explanation.

9M-MRO was the plane associated with the disappearence of MH370 back in March. So right off the bat you can throw 9M-MRC being mistaken for 9M-MRO in Cor Pan's Facebook picture of the plane. There are currently 12 Boeing 777-200 planes in the Malaysia Airlines fleet. They are numbered chronologically according to first built and issued, with 9M-MRA being the 1st commissioned plane, and 9M-MRB being the 2nd commissioned plane, and so on. So you can rule out 9M-MRQ as a possible explanation for the C in the RC on the Facebook picture since there were only 13 planes total, 9M-MRO being lost.

I am asking the question, why was 9M-MRC at the Schirphol Amsterdam airport the morning off July 17th, when it was last flown from Auckland (AKL) to Kuala Lumpur (KUL) the morning of July 16th, and according to flightaware.com, the plane marked 9M-MRC then flew from Kuala Lumpur (KUL) to Zia International (DAC) on July 18th? I can only assume that 9M-MRC was grounded at Kuala Lumpur from the morning of July 16th until it departed for Zia International (DAC) on the morning of July 18th, for refueling, possible routine maintenance, etc.

Is there something larger in the grand scheme of things that is happening here? Are we not being told the correct information? It is hard to grasp as to the truth behind this, but it is an interesting question.

I also thought about Cor Pan taking a picture of a Malaysia Airlines plane from the internet and using that image as his last Facebook post. But what are the odds that he would go through so much trouble to find a picture on the internet of a Malaysia Airlines plane, just before he were to board a plane headed to Kuala Lumpur, and sit on a plane for more than 11 hours? It doesn't make sense. You don't go through that much trouble to make an attempt at black humor when you are at an airport about to board a flight.

All of these facts don't add up; the notion that Malaysia Airlines 9M-MRC is seen at the same airport as evident by Cor Pan's photo, and flightaware.com has is most likely grounded in Kuala Lumpur roughly half a world away. Why was 9M-MRC at Schirphol Amsterdam and what really happened to MH17 that is seen in pictures taken from Donetsk, Ukraine? Just some food for thought. RIP MH17 and condolences to the family members involved.

In last posts I was bit rude. But it was reaction to many posters who are SURE what happened on basis of their world view. We are living in world where you can not be sure on meaning of events even (and may be less) if you are direct observer of such event. Majority of people take sides like Neo96 and Xcathdra do. They are sure that US government - even if sometime missbehave like with TSA or militarisation of police - is on right track with foreign policy. Mirror opinion can be found in Russia which is full of dengerous nationalism (patriotism?) supported by Putin. Nobody cares about people in middle. You are with us, or go to hell. We DO NOT WANT TO BE PART OF YOUR IMPERIALISTIC GAMES. We are seeking realistic policy which will allow as to coexist on this year by year tinnier globe. We are nor pro Putin nor pro USA. We can observe atrocities both regimes do on their own and foreign populations. We just want to live, to create and procreate. Bomb us if you are unhappy with that. God will sort you out (TM first bigger inquisition move).

Russian government edits Wikipedia on flight MH17

A political battle has broken out on Wikipedia over an entry relating to the crash of Malaysian Airlines flight MH17, with the Russian government reportedly removing sections which accuse it of providing "terrorists" with missiles that were used to down the civilian airliner.

A Twitter bot which monitors edits made to the online encyclopaedia from Russian government IP addresses (unique numbers relating to certain computers or networks) has spotted that changes are being made to a page relating to the crash.

It appears that an internet user from within the All-Russia State Television and Radio Broadcasting Company (VGTRK) changed a Russian language version of a page listing civil aviation accidents to say that "The plane [flight MH17] was shot down by Ukrainian soldiers".

click link for remainder of article...