Malaysian 777 Passenger Airline Shot Down Over Eastern Ukraine

You all think this will spark WW3?

originally posted by: rustyclutch

originally posted by: Bentnutt
a reply to: Xcathdra

My god man stop. That came directly from your source. Click and read. I did. One more thing. Anyone that flies over a war zone deserves to be shot down. That in my book is a no brainier.

Meh.....that's a bit harsh. It was stupid yes. But those passengers don't fly the plane....had the plane gone the normal route they wouldnt have crossed the war zone.

There was no restrictions in flights above 30k feet.

Apparently those who fired the missiles forgot a basic element of combat - identify the target before engaging.

originally posted by: LDragonFire
You all think this will spark WW3?

Why would it?

a reply to: Xcathdra

That was your source buddy.

originally posted by: rustyclutch

originally posted by: NoRulesAllowed

originally posted by: milomilo


The MH17 flight altered course today

I looked at the three charts/maps and they look *absolutely identical* over the Ukraine. Even zooming in doesn't show any difference between 14th, 16th, 17th.

You need to scroll down and click different dates. IF you click the links it shows the same one over and over....the flight plans are diff...I looked.

Yes you are correct.

So basically they today spotted a plane where NORMALLY there was none...which would give further credibility to the theory it was mistaken identity.

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: rustyclutch

originally posted by: NoRulesAllowed

originally posted by: milomilo


The MH17 flight altered course today

I looked at the three charts/maps and they look *absolutely identical* over the Ukraine. Even zooming in doesn't show any difference between 14th, 16th, 17th.

You need to scroll down and click different dates. IF you click the links it shows the same one over and over....the flight plans are diff...I looked.

You do understand that a flight plan does not require the aircraft to remain exactly on that path right? ATC can change the flight plan based on any number of situations. The pilot of the aircraft can do the same based on any number of issues.

Weather is one.
In flight emergency.
Airspace closed.
Hostilities in area.
etc etc etc.

So does the world only work the way you want it to? There is a clear deviation from all the other flight patterns. NONE of the flights took them directly over donetsk and that is probably what got them shot down. Why is there all this wiggle room in your theory but none in mine?

originally posted by: Bentnutt
a reply to: zacroyce

I'm sort of curious why someone was just standing there with camera rolling aimed at an empty field. What were they waiting for?

Thats been noticed in the media as well. Still no answer as to why someone was in that exact place and time with a camera looking in the right direction.

originally posted by: NoRulesAllowed

originally posted by: rustyclutch

originally posted by: NoRulesAllowed

originally posted by: milomilo


The MH17 flight altered course today

I looked at the three charts/maps and they look *absolutely identical* over the Ukraine. Even zooming in doesn't show any difference between 14th, 16th, 17th.

You need to scroll down and click different dates. IF you click the links it shows the same one over and over....the flight plans are diff...I looked.

Yes you are correct.

So basically they today spotted a plane where NORMALLY there was none...which would give further credibility to the theory it was mistaken identity.

yep, now me and you are on the same page at least. Or at least you get where I'm coming from.

a reply to: rustyclutch

Because your theory is contingent upon a misconception that aircraft cant deviate from their flight path at all. Its based on the misconception that if a plane appears on a commercial jet route and seems to deviate that it is grounds to shoot it down first before identifying the aircraft as a valid military target.

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: LDragonFire
You all think this will spark WW3?

Why would it?

Sen. McCain:

"If it is the case, then we're going to have to act and act in the most stringent fashions, including real sanctions, including giving the Ukrainians the ability to defend themselves, which we have not done so far," Sen. John McCain, R-Arizona, said in an interview with CNN's Anderson Cooper.

Sen Grahm:

Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-South Carolina, told CNN's Lisa Desjardins that if the plane was shot down by Russians or pro-Russian separatists, it would be a "game changer."

“If they are responsible – and I have no idea they are – you would take the sanctions we’ve unilaterally imposed, toughen them and get the world behind them," he said. "Start arming the Ukrainian military is what I would do.”

CNN

a reply to: Xcathdra

I'm not trying to be "that" guy, but go back to your source scroll to the bottom and click on the photo on the bottom left..
en.itar-tass.com...

originally posted by: Bentnutt
a reply to: Xcathdra

That was your source buddy.

No my source showed no restrictions.

Your link incorrectly states the airspace was closed, when in fact it was not.

originally posted by: GargIndia
The area in question is a war-zone. Ukraine is in midst of a civil war. Can people on this board start recognizing that fact.

Commercial aviation should avoid war-zones. Even fools know that planes are targeted in wars using missiles.

It is hard to distinguish a commercial plane from military plane many times. Such things will happen.

Pro Russian part of Ukraine will naturally act against Kiev's aircraft movements. The best way is to avoid the airspace.

It seems this is the case. They were staying out of one zone but not this one. The Russian rebels mistook it for a military craft. These a few pieces of evidence indicating this.

To me, the liability lies with the flight path and if this airline is responsible for this stupid mistake. This air space was under attack.

I also heard there was a diversion to avoid thunder or lightning.

a reply to: Xcathdra
Now that's topic for discussion.

originally posted by: LDragonFire
You all think this will spark WW3?

Unlikely. When KAL 007 (a 747) was shot down by the Soviets in 1983, at the height of the cold war, there was no military retaliation. Although it did prompt President Reagan to deliver his "Evil Empire" speech.

I could see the more economic sanctions against Russia though.

This makes me sick, I feel like we're just pawns in some stupid geopolitical game.

a reply to: LDragonFire

No. The spark is Obama.

originally posted by: CaptainBeno
What is this I hear about Leading Aids researchers being on-board.

No. It was some people going to an AUDS Convention in Australia

originally posted by: Bentnutt
a reply to: Xcathdra
Now that's topic for discussion.

If by topic you mean why was it not completely closed I agree.

If you mean it was closed and the flight should not have been there, there is nothing to debate because its already been established that airspace over 30k was open. Euro control also verified that.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: rustyclutch

Because your theory is contingent upon a misconception that aircraft cant deviate from their flight path at all. Its based on the misconception that if a plane appears on a commercial jet route and seems to deviate that it is grounds to shoot it down first before identifying the aircraft as a valid military target.

I didn't say that they CAN'T. You are simply implying that out of EVERY single flight pattern that shows them flying over the sea of Azov they deviated and instead flew over Donetsk everytime. Essentially saying that the route it shows them taking every other time, isn't their normal route. What sounds like a more absurd statement mine or yours? Even when presented with the visual evidence of flight patterns somehow you think your argument has more validity than mine.

Closed or not, the question remains as to why this particular flight deviated from the programmed path?

Also, the ITAR-TASS link claims the believed there were no restrictions based on the info they had at the time. Are they not sure? CYA!

If Ukraine controls those restrictions, couldn't they have given a green for flight through that zone?