Malaysian 777 Passenger Airline Shot Down Over Eastern Ukraine

originally posted by: moobie

originally posted by: fatdeeman
I have to wonder if some of the facts are actually sinking in with some people.

The armed rebels have prevented independent investigators from accessing the crash site, tampered with the crime scene, used crude machinery to move around massive pieces or wreckage and have now loaded dead bodies into train wagons and are going to take them to an UNDISCLOSED destination.

Read through that a few times and tell yourself this is really happening right now as we speak.....

Funny, they claim they are waiting on international inspectors and are dismayed at why they are not arriving.

Everybody has a story to tell, with an agenda.

I am still picking through stories, you seem to have chosen one.

Funny they would say that when international inspectors have already been allowed to see the refrigerated bodies so which one is it? And it doesn't change the fact they intend to take the bodies away to an undisclosed location.

Any more "facts" for us today?

a reply to: Xcathdra

Almost as laughable as North Korea saying they won the world cup. Propaganda wars

BBC are now saying that inspectors have been allowed into the area. They also showed some disturbing footage shot allegedly just after the plane came down of rebels searching through luggage and also trying to find the black boxes.

originally posted by: fatdeeman

originally posted by: moobie

originally posted by: fatdeeman
I have to wonder if some of the facts are actually sinking in with some people.

The armed rebels have prevented independent investigators from accessing the crash site, tampered with the crime scene, used crude machinery to move around massive pieces or wreckage and have now loaded dead bodies into train wagons and are going to take them to an UNDISCLOSED destination.

Read through that a few times and tell yourself this is really happening right now as we speak.....

Funny, they claim they are waiting on international inspectors and are dismayed at why they are not arriving.

Everybody has a story to tell, with an agenda.

I am still picking through stories, you seem to have chosen one.

Funny they would say that when international inspectors have already been allowed to see the refrigerated bodies so which one is it? And it doesn't change the fact they intend to take the bodies away to an undisclosed location.

Any more "facts" for us today?

Depends on where you get the facts from; I have read many contradicting "facts".

I fail to see how people can continue to defend the Separatists. Even disregarding the recording everything they have done points toward their guilt. We have posts on social media from them claiming to have captured a BUK and having shot down a plane on the day of the incident only to have those posts deleted as soon as the story broke. We have on footage Separatists preventing inspectors from accessing the scene. We have on footage Separatists carrying away bodies in trucks. We have the Separatists' only ally, Russia, not denying the Separatists involvement but instead trying to blame the Ukraine regardless of what actually happened. And let's not forget the separatist leaders that resigned the day after the incident.

I just don't get how people can continue to defend the separatists when every move they make screams guilty.

originally posted by: bigfoot007
BBC are now saying that inspectors have been allowed into the area. They also showed some disturbing footage shot allegedly just after the plane came down of rebels searching through luggage and also trying to find the black boxes.

Well they have to identify the bodies, would you prefer the bodies rot in a field whilst the inspectors arrive?

I would think leaving them to rot in the field would be very disrespectful and ripe for disease spreading in the area and makes autopsies harder. I am sure the families wouldnt want that. I know I wouldnt, in fact I would thank them for preserving the bodies.

Unless you are implying Russians are necrophiliacs or something.

originally posted by: moobie

originally posted by: bigfoot007
BBC are now saying that inspectors have been allowed into the area. They also showed some disturbing footage shot allegedly just after the plane came down of rebels searching through luggage and also trying to find the black boxes.

Well they have to identify the bodies, would you prefer the bodies rot in a field whilst the inspectors arrive?

I would think leaving them to rot in the field would be very disrespectful and ripe for disease spreading in the area and makes autopsies harder. I am sure the families wouldnt want that. I know I wouldnt, in fact I would thank them for preserving the bodies.

They only started moving the bodies at the earliest yesterday. And this is what should have been done right at the beginning, exactly as you said. The BBC footage was filmed by the rebels as soon as they got to the crash site right after the plane came down. They made no attempt to collect the bodies, they seemed more interested in finding what they could.

originally posted by: bigfoot007

originally posted by: moobie

originally posted by: bigfoot007
BBC are now saying that inspectors have been allowed into the area. They also showed some disturbing footage shot allegedly just after the plane came down of rebels searching through luggage and also trying to find the black boxes.

Well they have to identify the bodies, would you prefer the bodies rot in a field whilst the inspectors arrive?

I would think leaving them to rot in the field would be very disrespectful and ripe for disease spreading in the area and makes autopsies harder. I am sure the families wouldnt want that. I know I wouldnt, in fact I would thank them for preserving the bodies.

They only started moving the bodies at the earliest yesterday. And this is what should have been done right at the beginning, exactly as you said. The BBC footage was filmed by the rebels as soon as they got to the crash site right after the plane came down. They made no attempt to collect the bodies, they seemed more interested in finding what they could.

Yeah, intense fire and flames does that. So does artillary from the Ukranian army.

I thought you all knew, jet fuel can melt steel and destroy skyscrapers.

originally posted by: moobie

originally posted by: bigfoot007

originally posted by: moobie

originally posted by: bigfoot007
BBC are now saying that inspectors have been allowed into the area. They also showed some disturbing footage shot allegedly just after the plane came down of rebels searching through luggage and also trying to find the black boxes.

Well they have to identify the bodies, would you prefer the bodies rot in a field whilst the inspectors arrive?

I would think leaving them to rot in the field would be very disrespectful and ripe for disease spreading in the area and makes autopsies harder. I am sure the families wouldnt want that. I know I wouldnt, in fact I would thank them for preserving the bodies.

They only started moving the bodies at the earliest yesterday. And this is what should have been done right at the beginning, exactly as you said. The BBC footage was filmed by the rebels as soon as they got to the crash site right after the plane came down. They made no attempt to collect the bodies, they seemed more interested in finding what they could.

Yeah, intense fire and flames does that.

I thought you all knew, jet fuel can melt steel and destroy skyscrapers.

As far as can be seen from the footage there was no fire , but hey sarcasm was never my strong point

originally posted by: bigfoot007

originally posted by: moobie

originally posted by: bigfoot007

originally posted by: moobie

originally posted by: bigfoot007
BBC are now saying that inspectors have been allowed into the area. They also showed some disturbing footage shot allegedly just after the plane came down of rebels searching through luggage and also trying to find the black boxes.

Well they have to identify the bodies, would you prefer the bodies rot in a field whilst the inspectors arrive?

I would think leaving them to rot in the field would be very disrespectful and ripe for disease spreading in the area and makes autopsies harder. I am sure the families wouldnt want that. I know I wouldnt, in fact I would thank them for preserving the bodies.

They only started moving the bodies at the earliest yesterday. And this is what should have been done right at the beginning, exactly as you said. The BBC footage was filmed by the rebels as soon as they got to the crash site right after the plane came down. They made no attempt to collect the bodies, they seemed more interested in finding what they could.

Yeah, intense fire and flames does that.

I thought you all knew, jet fuel can melt steel and destroy skyscrapers.

As far as can be seen from the footage there was no fire , but hey sarcasm was never my strong point

I saw fire still burning. Not only was there fire, there would also be smouldering heat preventing you getting near it at places. Just because you cannot see fire, does not mean it is not hot, so hot you cannot get near it.

Not forgetting sharp bits of metal, power cells / batteries, electricity cables and not knowing what the cargo contained and flamable and explosive equipment on board.

a reply to: moobie

Why didn't the separatists allow the monitors that arrived on Friday unrestricted access to the scene? Why do they continue to prevent unrestricted access? If they were worried about preserving the bodies why did it take then two days to move them to an undisclosed location? Burning jet fuel is not an reason. Jet fuel is a quick burning accelerant and would have burned out within an hour.

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: moobie

Why didn't the separatists allow the monitors that arrived on Friday unrestricted access to the scene? Why do they continue to prevent unrestricted access? If they were worried about preserving the bodies why did it take then two days to move them to an undisclosed location? Burning jet fuel is not an reason. Jet fuel is a quick burning accelerant and would have burned out within an hour.

Like I know? Probably because Germany tried to use OSCE before to spy on them and they had to verify they were who they said they were? Sounds a good reason to me.

Two days, thats pretty good work, you try moving a couple of hundred dead bodies, decomposed, deformed, burning, melted, flesh gone, and in parts. Can you do that faster? It is not like they had refridgerator storage handy on day 1 of the crash, they had to 1) find them and 2) move them and 3) do that in a conflict area with bombing.

If you can do better, you should apply to join the Avengers.

originally posted by: onehuman
You know the thing that has been bugging me about this outside of all the arguments going on that seems different from the 370 scenario, is no one seems to be questioning the "Cargo" on this plane.

I only mention this because we have obviously seen soldiers going through what looked like boxes of things being tossed onto a truck. Besides that just being wrong and destroying a crime scene, it seems like it was almost a priority of what to do before dealing with the bodies.

With 370, we came up with the important people pretty fast that were on the flight that led to all kinds of speculation, and this flight we now know about the Aids people.

With 370 after finally getting to the cargo, we discovered the lithium batteries and the tons of fruit. That raised more question, the batteries more so than the fruit of course.

So, here I am now, curious as to why it was so important to get "boxes" on a truck and taken away as a seemingly first priority.

Are we perhaps looking at the wrong things here? All fighting about who did it and not what other reasons someone might have done it?
Maybe the escort jets were more of a marker of which plane to shoot down. Arguments about why other planes got past this area safely and this one didnt. Maybe that would explain why they were there? To make sure the plane got were it needed to be?

I know I may be reaching here, but as in depth as we went into 370, I do think the cargo may possibly be a key to this which is being overlooked, especially with the immediate actions that were taken by the soldiers on the ground.

Obama travelled to Malaysia, the first President to do so in decades, to meet with the PM and make a speech which focussed on working with Malaysia to shut down the trafficking of components of nuclear weapons.

Listen to his speech. It has a whole new relevance now.

Nuclear bomb component smuggling starts around 16:00.

www.youtube.com...



If what Obama says is true, that Malaysia would be working even more closely with the US, how is it that the result is a deepening of the mystery and another A/C getting shot down?

The visit to Malaysia was more likely a planning meeting for the current episode of 'What Happened to the Boeing?'

a reply to: moobie

And of course even though the separatists are poorly trained (at least that's what their supporters keep saying) they are much more adept at handling plane crashes than the monitors and investigators who are trained to deal with such things. That must be why they're not allowing the professionals access. They're just looking out for their safety.

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: moobie

And of course even though the separatists are poorly trained (at least that's what their supporters keep saying) they are much more adept at handling plane crashes than the monitors and investigators who are trained to deal with such things. That must be why they're not allowing the professionals access. They're just looking out for their safety.

They did have access. They also have to 1) verify they are who they say they are ( remember Germany spying under the guide of the OSCE?), 2) ensure their safety, and 3) oversee they are not tampering (see point 1).

a reply to: moobie

The Vice News clip from two days later doesn't show any sign of fire damage to the bodies, and dozens of bodies laying where they fell in the debris. There had been no attempt to remove bodies that were even out in fields, far away from the wreckage.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: moobie

The Vice News clip from two days later doesn't show any sign of fire damage to the bodies, and dozens of bodies laying where they fell in the debris. There had been no attempt to remove bodies that were even out in fields, far away from the wreckage.

I saw bodies and luggage on fire and burnt. Perhaps you should look at other clips.

Also even though the Flames go out, there would also be an intense heat from the smouldering. Fire doesn't just stop instantly.

Picture of fire and heat being put out. See the smoke from the heat on the water?
www.independent.co.uk...

More fire being put out.
vipmedia.globalnews.ca...

More on fire
i.huffpost.com...

More on fire
trumpetmediagroup.com...

There was lots more, check the videos, google around.

Fire was burning for a long while, notice it was night in some images and daytime in others.

a reply to: moobie

They had no access until several days later.

Yeah, intense fire and flames does that. So does artillary from the Ukranian army.

I thought you all knew, jet fuel can melt steel and destroy skyscrapers.

The fire was out day one. There was images of the guys walking though it. What shelling happed? none. Your making up stuff.

originally posted by: roadgravel

Yeah, intense fire and flames does that. So does artillary from the Ukranian army.

I thought you all knew, jet fuel can melt steel and destroy skyscrapers.

The fire was out day one. There was images of the guys walking though it. What shelling happed? none. Your making up stuff.

Yeah I'm making the pictures of fire on the crash site at night, and fire at the crash site at daylight on a different day.

I am very fast with photoshop. Wait until you see me with after effects pro on the videos.

In fact to add further to your story, I had them prepared the day before the crash.

As for shelling, they are in a conflict zone, they don't know if they will be shelled or not. They have to be cautious.

Thanks for praising my artwork on the images of fire on the crash site. Flattering indeed.