Malaysian 777 Passenger Airline Shot Down Over Eastern Ukraine

If you put an thing into the 'recordings', they thought they were firing at a military plane.

a reply to: roadgravel

Sorry, edited my post after you replied.

originally posted by: roadgravel
a reply to: Flatcoat

Why would they pick a MAS flight?

Maybe someone has the right connections at Malaysian Airlines to divert flights?

soulwaxer

originally posted by: roadgravel
If you put an thing into the 'recordings', they thought they were firing at a military plane.

No, I definitely think there is an agenda here. A trained crew wouldn't make that mistake, and an untrained crew probably wouldn't know how to do it in the first place.

More along the thought of targeting a commercial plane to demonstrate control over the area?

If the recording is true, they thought it was a military transport. To bad the NSA, etal won't provide back up or deny the recording.

originally posted by: roadgravel
More along the thought of targeting a commercial plane to demonstrate control over the area?

If the recording is true, they thought it was a military transport. To bad the NSA, etal won't provide back up or deny the recording.

Well, I don't like to admit this, seeing as how there's no proof of anything yet, but I'm leaning more towards some loony in the Ukraine government trying to evoke a world response.

Guess I can't blame a lot of you Yanks for acting like A-holes when your Gov't gives you another bone to chew on. Kinda reminds me of a Golden Retriever I used to own. Swallow anything. Finally gave him away.

originally posted by: Flatcoat

originally posted by: roadgravel
More along the thought of targeting a commercial plane to demonstrate control over the area?

If the recording is true, they thought it was a military transport. To bad the NSA, etal won't provide back up or deny the recording.

Well, I don't like to admit this, seeing as how there's no proof of anything yet, but I'm leaning more towards some loony in the Ukraine government trying to evoke a world response.

That's might be a reasonable theory given the advantage in the fight isn't moving either way at this point.

a reply to: Hilux1996

Classic game of chess, double bluff by the USA, make everyone think that it was the rebels / separatists / Russians.

Creates confusion, everyone blaming everyone else and bingo!!

Are Malaysian Airlines effectively expendable, the 777 is a very safe aircraft, I wouldn't rule out a mid air breakup, but considering the number of 777 flying and there has as far as I am aware never been a mid air breakup due to fatigue the chances of this are very slim to none.

originally posted by: Flatcoat

originally posted by: roadgravel
If you put an thing into the 'recordings', they thought they were firing at a military plane.

No, I definitely think there is an agenda here. A trained crew wouldn't make that mistake, and an untrained crew probably wouldn't know how to do it in the first place.

Let us be clear that if Russia loaned a Buk-M, it is likely to be with a crew. However just the fact that Russia loaned a Buk-M to the rebels does not mean Russians wanted to fire at a commercial plane.

I can understand why Russians would loan a SAM to the rebels, as Ukraine is using bombers on a daily basis.

However a tragedy like this can happen if two aircrafts are very close - one military fighter and another commercial airplane. Now obviously a military plane can dodge a missile but commercial airplane has no such defense.

This comes back to why Ukraine allowed a commercial flight in an area where they are sending fighters to bomb????

The facts are plain to see. The commercial aviation must not go in a war zone.

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"Why did they pick MH17?" - If you read thread from the start, you'd know that they didn't. They mis-identified it, and shot it down thinking it was a cargo plane transporting weapons. Allegedly, and that does have some credence as there was a cargo plane following a near identical flight path.

"Rebels couldn't have operated the missile launcher, they had to have help from trained " - Why not? Sure it might be sophisticated, but military weapons are often designed to be obvious, so that almost any random soldier can operate them. Sophistication need not mean hard to operate. After all, a certain country that I won't mention, had its launch codes set to 00000000, so that it wasn't hard for their operators to... launch.

"Russia is a third world country..." - No its not, its technically a second world country, and that does not mean poor quality/stupid/economically unviable, it just means "unaligned with NATO". Russia in fact has a very well trained, very well equipped military, and has never lost to invaders. Nazi Germany found out, to their error, that you don't invade Russia, and live to tell the story. So for those who are advocating a war on Russia, and I'm not saying its the wrong action, I'm saying you need to think about just whom you're wanting to invade/make war on.

originally posted by: GargIndia

originally posted by: Flatcoat

originally posted by: roadgravel
If you put an thing into the 'recordings', they thought they were firing at a military plane.

No, I definitely think there is an agenda here. A trained crew wouldn't make that mistake, and an untrained crew probably wouldn't know how to do it in the first place.

Let us be clear that if Russia loaned a Buk-M, it is likely to be with a crew. However just the fact that Russia loaned a Buk-M to the rebels does not mean Russians wanted to fire at a commercial plane.

I can understand why Russians would loan a SAM to the rebels, as Ukraine is using bombers on a daily basis.

However a tragedy like this can happen if two aircrafts are very close - one military fighter and another commercial airplane. Now obviously a military plane can dodge a missile but commercial airplane has no such defense.

This comes back to why Ukraine allowed a commercial flight in an area where they are sending fighters to bomb????

The facts are plain to see. The commercial aviation must not go in a war zone.

I think that up to this point there had been no real danger to commercial aircraft, only military flying at lower altitudes.

Even if the Ukrainians had a working BUK / SAM system, they would have no reason to fire upon a commercial airliner. Unless they wanted to get the USA etc. involved with the current war. We all know that the "red line" that POTUS talks about is really a "sissy pink line".

This goes deeper than blowing an airliner out of the air, just to create some support for one side or the other.

a reply to: bigfoot007

...and that is why I suggested that America is behind all this.....Malayan airlines were already on their knees when the other malayan flight 'disappeared'. But besides that we have the TPP....which America is having HUGE problems getting signed, sealed and delivered ON THEIR terms. Malayan Airlines is THE airline in Malaya.........wouldn't an american airline love to get all that airspace?......think The Aviator....Howard Hughes and how PanAm tried putting TransWorld Airlines...TWA out of business.

Curious too how OBAMA has stepped back over this saying it's an European problem.....more like making the 'arrows' and letting Europe fire them for their benefit if you ask me.

But like I said...I'm not taking sides...

originally posted by: bigfoot007

originally posted by: GargIndia

originally posted by: Flatcoat

originally posted by: roadgravel
If you put an thing into the 'recordings', they thought they were firing at a military plane.

No, I definitely think there is an agenda here. A trained crew wouldn't make that mistake, and an untrained crew probably wouldn't know how to do it in the first place.

Let us be clear that if Russia loaned a Buk-M, it is likely to be with a crew. However just the fact that Russia loaned a Buk-M to the rebels does not mean Russians wanted to fire at a commercial plane.

I can understand why Russians would loan a SAM to the rebels, as Ukraine is using bombers on a daily basis.

However a tragedy like this can happen if two aircrafts are very close - one military fighter and another commercial airplane. Now obviously a military plane can dodge a missile but commercial airplane has no such defense.

This comes back to why Ukraine allowed a commercial flight in an area where they are sending fighters to bomb????

The facts are plain to see. The commercial aviation must not go in a war zone.

I think that up to this point there had been no real danger to commercial aircraft, only military flying at lower altitudes.

Even if the Ukrainians had a working BUK / SAM system, they would have no reason to fire upon a commercial airliner. Unless they wanted to get the USA etc. involved with the current war. We all know that the "red line" that POTUS talks about is really a "sissy pink line".

This goes deeper than blowing an airliner out of the air, just to create some support for one side or the other.

The fighters can climb at a greater height compared to a commercial plane. ALso the SAMs are meant to shoot down transports, which can attain a similar height. So we cannot assume commercial aviation to be safe.

An An-26 was shot down in the same area a few days back that was at cruising height.

It is too early to make decisions. Please click this link: suomensotilas.fi... and you will get more unbiased information than I have seen in this entire thread. It is an example of what ATS is supposed be.

originally posted by: bigfoot007
a reply to: Hilux1996

Classic game of chess, double bluff by the USA, make everyone think that it was the rebels / separatists / Russians.

Creates confusion, everyone blaming everyone else and bingo!!

Are Malaysian Airlines effectively expendable, the 777 is a very safe aircraft, I wouldn't rule out a mid air breakup, but considering the number of 777 flying and there has as far as I am aware never been a mid air breakup due to fatigue the chances of this are very slim to none.

It's just the usual from the US. Every time they want a war they create a False Flag. And all their allies follow. Just look at Camoron raining down sanctions on Russia. America's ally Israel are just as bad. They created the 3 teen killing False Flag so they can finish off the Palestinians after stealing their land!

It's getting to a point now that every time a conflict starts you know it is preceded by a False Flag event.

This scenario is way too obvious an inside job name and blame game! Just like 9/11 and 7/7 it's so obvious and so transparent that it is nearly invisible!

originally posted by: Flatcoat

originally posted by: roadgravel
More along the thought of targeting a commercial plane to demonstrate control over the area?

If the recording is true, they thought it was a military transport. To bad the NSA, etal won't provide back up or deny the recording.

Well, I don't like to admit this, seeing as how there's no proof of anything yet, but I'm leaning more towards some loony in the Ukraine government trying to evoke a world response.

well , the only one who have everything to gain by this disaster is KIEV goverment.. everyone else dont need this disaster especially the struggling rebels and the russians..

only a truly blind and deluded person would see this disaster as caused by rebels and russians intentionally..

originally posted by: roadgravel

originally posted by: Flatcoat

originally posted by: roadgravel
More along the thought of targeting a commercial plane to demonstrate control over the area?

If the recording is true, they thought it was a military transport. To bad the NSA, etal won't provide back up or deny the recording.

Well, I don't like to admit this, seeing as how there's no proof of anything yet, but I'm leaning more towards some loony in the Ukraine government trying to evoke a world response.

That's might be a reasonable theory given the advantage in the fight isn't moving either way at this point.

IMHO you only have to take a look around and see what's happening. Suddenly the whole world is hatin' on Putin and the rebels. This must be like Christmas for the guys in Kiev. And even if the Ukrainians had nothing to do with it, you can bet your arse there's quite a few of them sitting around thinking "Wow!! Why didn't we think of this!"