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Malaysian 777 Passenger Airline Shot Down Over Eastern Ukraine

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posted on Jul, 20 2014 @ 01:09 AM
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Those that do not have any interest in the truth are dominant in this thread. Is their bias centered on their political orientation, or their nationalistic orientation, or their who pays them orientation?

I don't know the answer. But I've spent hours reading and thinking, and I have concluded that this is likely a false flag part of a very long term plan to gain control of the world. Powerful people with very long term plans.




posted on Jul, 20 2014 @ 01:35 AM
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I have read this entire thread and am not HAPPY with anyone. I was expecting some problem solving because I rely on ATS knowledge, but most of the posters have an agenda. I neither agree or disagree with any assertions, but perhaps this link suomensotilas.fi... will put your feet back on the ground. Why no one ever learns that ALL governments and their biased media lies, is a phenoma. Most of you are lemmings. Does anyone study history? You don't need to be a genius.



posted on Jul, 20 2014 @ 01:37 AM
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a reply to: droid56

It's about the oil. It's always about the oil. Simply put, this is Syria act 2. The first act fell apart when Putin called Obama's bluff about the chemical warfare fiasco. It was Putin who wanted to build a pipeline through Syria and supply EU. And it was Prince Bandar bin Sultan from Qatar whom approached Putin on a pipeline deal which he was promptly told to "go pound dirt".

According to Reuters, the Saudis appear to have offered $15 billion in weapons contracts during the July 31 meeting between Russian President Vladimir Putin and influential intelligence chief Prince Bandar bin Sultan. Russia rebuffed the offer because the Saudi’s deal was dependent upon Moscow dropping its arms contracts with the Assad government in Syria.

21st Century Wire
Not to mention, plans to drop the petrodollar and exchange in their own currency. States would have none of that.

So, act 2 rolls in. Move a pipeline through Crimea instead and take control of the ports before Ukraine becomes part of the EU. And here we are today.

There is also another reason for Putin’s intervention in Ukraine and that has to do with Russia elbowing for dominance of the very lucrative and strategically important “energy corridors.”
That is very likely to be the major reason why Putin is willing to risk going to war with the West over Crimea, the pipelines that traverses the Caucasus and the oil and natural gas these pipelines carry westwards to Europe.

Energy Showdown

edit on 20-7-2014 by FlySolo because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 20 2014 @ 01:40 AM
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originally posted by: Leonidas
a reply to: Oksus

Not really enough there to call a "Theory".

You have two jumbo-jets worth of people to account for and even with the rebels carting off evidence, the number of parts left will absolutely identify which jet it is.

Basically all that your "Theory" has to go is that two planes from the same airline have been in incidents this year.



Even worse it would require the dutch to be in on it not to mention alot of Europe since the plane filed flight plans. The families of the victims as well since many probably helped there love ones get on the flight. Than theirs the maintenance crews in the airport. Then malaysia and lets not forget the actual company that owns the jet. And Well the Russians as well since flight plans would have been filed and they have radar and satellites making any switch impossible. Than we still have pilots and flight crew as well and probably even more im not even thinking about.

It amazes me sometimes the levels of fantasy some people have all because they never think things through.



posted on Jul, 20 2014 @ 01:59 AM
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originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: Leonidas
a reply to: Oksus

Not really enough there to call a "Theory".

You have two jumbo-jets worth of people to account for and even with the rebels carting off evidence, the number of parts left will absolutely identify which jet it is.

Basically all that your "Theory" has to go is that two planes from the same airline have been in incidents this year.



Even worse it would require the dutch to be in on it not to mention alot of Europe since the plane filed flight plans. The families of the victims as well since many probably helped there love ones get on the flight. Than theirs the maintenance crews in the airport. Then malaysia and lets not forget the actual company that owns the jet. And Well the Russians as well since flight plans would have been filed and they have radar and satellites making any switch impossible. Than we still have pilots and flight crew as well and probably even more im not even thinking about.

It amazes me sometimes the levels of fantasy some people have all because they never think things through.


Not saying it is a conspiracy, but they all don't need to be in on it. All that needed done was someone to shoot a planed flight down, and redirect the flight. Isn't it odd that both the Malaysian flights lost communication completely before going off course? I want to say it was a bad mistake on the behalf of Malaysian Air and whoever shot it down. Why are flights flying over a war zone anyways?



posted on Jul, 20 2014 @ 02:03 AM
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originally posted by: FlySolo
a reply to: droid56

It's about the oil. It's always about the oil. Simply put, this is Syria act 2. The first act fell apart when Putin called Obama's bluff about the chemical warfare fiasco. It was Putin who wanted to build a pipeline through Syria and supply EU. And it was Prince Bandar bin Sultan from Qatar whom approached Putin on a pipeline deal which he was promptly told to "go pound dirt". Not to mention, plans to drop the petrodollar and exchange in their own currency. States would have none of that.

So, act 2 rolls in. Move a pipeline through Crimea instead and take control of the ports before Ukraine becomes part of the EU. And here we are today.
Energy Showdown


You have no clue even what the petro dollar is yet you try to use it in your conspiracy. The petro dollar simply means they use US currency to set the price the US gets no benefit what so ever. What this is for is investments if i want to buy oil from say Saudi arabia or say Qatar they list there price of a barrel of oil in US dollars. Its for price comparison Saudi could decide tomorrow they want to use the Mexican pesos. If have US dollars convert it over to pesos and i know the price of a barrel of oil. If i want i can take my US dollars buy Euros than use those to pay for the oil i just need to know the exchange rate from Euros to Pesos. Its such a simple concept i dont know how people turn this into a big deal. US does not make money because a country lists there oil prices in US dollars. The only time they make anything is transaction fees when someone wires money or takes out a loan. If i open a line of credit for investments and i buy oil than the bank makes money. If the person i am buying the oil from wanted cash for there oil (rarely happens usually to a bank account) than i pay to do a wire transfer.



posted on Jul, 20 2014 @ 02:04 AM
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the chinese behave like the most civilized nation regarding the incident, they are waiting for the result of formal investigation before saying anything.

unlike the australian PM who blabber and point finger to russian and threaten to boycott russian delegate in G20.



posted on Jul, 20 2014 @ 02:06 AM
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originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: FlySolo
a reply to: droid56

It's about the oil. It's always about the oil. Simply put, this is Syria act 2. The first act fell apart when Putin called Obama's bluff about the chemical warfare fiasco. It was Putin who wanted to build a pipeline through Syria and supply EU. And it was Prince Bandar bin Sultan from Qatar whom approached Putin on a pipeline deal which he was promptly told to "go pound dirt". Not to mention, plans to drop the petrodollar and exchange in their own currency. States would have none of that.

So, act 2 rolls in. Move a pipeline through Crimea instead and take control of the ports before Ukraine becomes part of the EU. And here we are today.
Energy Showdown


You have no clue even what the petro dollar is yet you try to use it in your conspiracy. The petro dollar simply means they use US currency to set the price the US gets no benefit what so ever. What this is for is investments if i want to buy oil from say Saudi arabia or say Qatar they list there price of a barrel of oil in US dollars. Its for price comparison Saudi could decide tomorrow they want to use the Mexican pesos. If have US dollars convert it over to pesos and i know the price of a barrel of oil. If i want i can take my US dollars buy Euros than use those to pay for the oil i just need to know the exchange rate from Euros to Pesos. Its such a simple concept i dont know how people turn this into a big deal. US does not make money because a country lists there oil prices in US dollars. The only time they make anything is transaction fees when someone wires money or takes out a loan. If i open a line of credit for investments and i buy oil than the bank makes money. If the person i am buying the oil from wanted cash for there oil (rarely happens usually to a bank account) than i pay to do a wire transfer.


it is ironic that you dissed someone's post about petro dollar when it is you who are wrong about it. See how fast dollar will be abandoned as world reserve currency if every nation allowed to bypass this so called petrodollar scheme..



posted on Jul, 20 2014 @ 02:09 AM
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a reply to: dragonridr
I might possibly agree with a lot you have to say, but did you read the thread title? Start a new thread, maybe I will join. Right now, on this thread, I want those more knowleadgble than me to give specific information and analysis This why I come here.



posted on Jul, 20 2014 @ 02:13 AM
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a reply to: dragonridr

Really? You're preaching to the choir man. And you say I don't know what the petrodollar is? I think you've got some some reading to do.

Here, start with this.

In 1971 Richard Nixon was forced to close the gold window taking the U.S. off the gold standard and setting into motion a massive devaluation of the U.S. dollar. In an effort to prop up the value of the dollar Nixon negotiated a deal with Saudi Arabia that in exchange for arms and protection they would denominate all future oil sales in U.S. dollars.


Price comparison. That's funny. Next time you tell someone they don't have a clue, make sure to do your homework.
Thanks.
edit on 20-7-2014 by FlySolo because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 20 2014 @ 02:21 AM
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U.S. Official Says Russia Gave Missiles to Separatists


A U.S. official confirmed to The Washington Post on Saturday that Russia supplied advanced missile launchers to separatist groups in Ukraine, and that those launchers were moved back across the border after the downing of Malaysia Air Flight 17. The Russian government has so far denied sending weapons to the rebel groups, and the rebels have denied possessing them, though they have boasted online about shooting down other aircraft.

According to the report by journalists Michael Birnbaum and Karen DeYoung, U.S. intelligence officials learned "a little more than a week ago" that Russia was attempting to move the weapon systems, known as the Buk-M1, into Ukraine. Several videos have surfaced over the last two days of the mobile launchers being moved on Ukrainian roads, including back toward the Russian border, though those videos were unconfirmed. This would appear to be the first direct accusation from American sources tying the disaster to the Russian government.

Although Ukraine has their own versions of the Russian-made Buk missiles, the government claims they did not leave any behind in separatist controlled-areas. If true, the missiles could likely have only come from the other side of the Russian border.


click link for article



posted on Jul, 20 2014 @ 02:31 AM
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originally posted by: milomilo

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: FlySolo
a reply to: droid56

It's about the oil. It's always about the oil. Simply put, this is Syria act 2. The first act fell apart when Putin called Obama's bluff about the chemical warfare fiasco. It was Putin who wanted to build a pipeline through Syria and supply EU. And it was Prince Bandar bin Sultan from Qatar whom approached Putin on a pipeline deal which he was promptly told to "go pound dirt". Not to mention, plans to drop the petrodollar and exchange in their own currency. States would have none of that.

So, act 2 rolls in. Move a pipeline through Crimea instead and take control of the ports before Ukraine becomes part of the EU. And here we are today.
Energy Showdown


You have no clue even what the petro dollar is yet you try to use it in your conspiracy. The petro dollar simply means they use US currency to set the price the US gets no benefit what so ever. What this is for is investments if i want to buy oil from say Saudi arabia or say Qatar they list there price of a barrel of oil in US dollars. Its for price comparison Saudi could decide tomorrow they want to use the Mexican pesos. If have US dollars convert it over to pesos and i know the price of a barrel of oil. If i want i can take my US dollars buy Euros than use those to pay for the oil i just need to know the exchange rate from Euros to Pesos. Its such a simple concept i dont know how people turn this into a big deal. US does not make money because a country lists there oil prices in US dollars. The only time they make anything is transaction fees when someone wires money or takes out a loan. If i open a line of credit for investments and i buy oil than the bank makes money. If the person i am buying the oil from wanted cash for there oil (rarely happens usually to a bank account) than i pay to do a wire transfer.


it is ironic that you dissed someone's post about petro dollar when it is you who are wrong about it. See how fast dollar will be abandoned as world reserve currency if every nation allowed to bypass this so called petrodollar scheme..


Reserve currencies involve loans and bank transfers this is different from Oil the reason the Euro and the US dollar is reserve currencies is they between the Euro and the US they have the largest banks with the most capitol. If the US currency wasnt used by the major banks US economy would gain by allowing exports to increase since the US dollar becomes cheaper same principle China uses to keep there currency artificially low. China purposefully devalues the Yen meaning there exports are significantly cheaper in foreign markets. International markets are not that difficult to grasp just people do not deal with it daily. The only disadvantage to losing reserve currency status is imports go up but that would also mean that more countries would move manufacturing back to the US to get around this. In the US energy costs would rise but food costs would lower and any domestic products become cheaper. Because the US is a major consumer market however the only way the US or EU will lose reserve status is if there economy was to crash than people stop buying and imports would cease. Nothing any other country can do to cause that its strictly internal and the only one capable of crashing the US economy is US banks if they tightened up on lending and US citizens no longer had excess capitol.



posted on Jul, 20 2014 @ 02:43 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Jul, 20 2014 @ 02:46 AM
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a reply to: ozwest

What does this have to do with the thread?



posted on Jul, 20 2014 @ 02:47 AM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

Thought you might want to see this apparently the US is confident enough to take there case to the UN. Discussing the likelihood the US observed the launch.




The United States believes the Malaysian jet that was destroyed over Ukraine yesterday, killing all 298 people on board, was almost certainly downed by a missile launched by pro-Russian rebels, rather than the Ukrainian Air Force. So say President Barack Obama and Samantha Power, the US Ambassador to the UN, who told a special session of the UN Security Council in New York today that the surface-to-air missile was most likely operated from a separatist-held location in Eastern Ukraine. The UK government issued a similar statement.

US Air Force monitoring satellites probably spotted the activation of a telltale missile radar signal in eastern Ukraine – quickly followed by the infrared signature of a midair explosion.

The finding appears to tally with the Ukrainian government's assertion that none of the surface-to-air missiles in its inventory are missing and so have not been fired. It also says the aircraft was out of range of Ukrainian Air Force missile batteries.

To some, the culprit is clear. Tom Nichols, a national security expert at the US Naval War College in Newport, Rhode Island, told the Al Jazeera TV network that "the Russians' fingerprints are all over this, directly or indirectly".

"Only states can shoot things down that are that high up. This was clearly done with the connivance or supply from the Russians."

www.newscientist.com...



posted on Jul, 20 2014 @ 02:49 AM
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originally posted by: SixX18

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: Leonidas
a reply to: Oksus

Not really enough there to call a "Theory".

You have two jumbo-jets worth of people to account for and even with the rebels carting off evidence, the number of parts left will absolutely identify which jet it is.

Basically all that your "Theory" has to go is that two planes from the same airline have been in incidents this year.



Even worse it would require the dutch to be in on it not to mention alot of Europe since the plane filed flight plans. The families of the victims as well since many probably helped there love ones get on the flight. Than theirs the maintenance crews in the airport. Then malaysia and lets not forget the actual company that owns the jet. And Well the Russians as well since flight plans would have been filed and they have radar and satellites making any switch impossible. Than we still have pilots and flight crew as well and probably even more im not even thinking about.

It amazes me sometimes the levels of fantasy some people have all because they never think things through.


Not saying it is a conspiracy, but they all don't need to be in on it. All that needed done was someone to shoot a planed flight down, and redirect the flight. Isn't it odd that both the Malaysian flights lost communication completely before going off course? I want to say it was a bad mistake on the behalf of Malaysian Air and whoever shot it down. Why are flights flying over a war zone anyways?
Any1 willing to entertain that maybe ufo activity brought the plane down and I am beginning to lean towards this scenario



posted on Jul, 20 2014 @ 02:51 AM
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President Barack Obama today said without hesitation that the missile that shot down Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 was launched from within territory controlled by pro-Russian separatists in Eastern Ukraine. While he didn’t go into the sources the US used to pinpoint the launch, early reports say that US intelligence had identified the infrared signature of a missile launch just before contact with the airliner was lost.

That information likely came from one of a network of satellites operated by the Air Force and the National Reconnaissance Office (NRO), the US intelligence community’s spy satellite operations agency. Using highly sensitive infrared sensors and other electronic intelligence gathering sensors, these satellites can detect a variety of ground-based missile systems, as well as some aircraft, by their infrared signature. They also carry sensitive electronic intelligence sensors that can detect radar signals associated with anti-aircraft missile systems like the Buk launcher that has been widely pointed to as the culprit in the MH17 downing.


arstechnica.com...



posted on Jul, 20 2014 @ 03:06 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Jul, 20 2014 @ 03:07 AM
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This is also interesting ill search for the latest intercepts. This is apparently the separatists discussing the Buk they received from Russia this was released by the Ukrainian government so we cant verify it but interesting none the less.




Talks between terrorists, July 14, 2014

“Oleh” – Oleh Bugrov Valeriovych, army chief of staff of self-proclaimed Luhansk People's Republic, deputy minister of defense of “LNR”.

“Oreon” – a citizen of the Russian Federation, officer of Main Intelligence Directorate (to be identified).

Oleh: – Worked out a plane near Stanitsa. Missed.

Oreon: – Great. This way they are taking revenge on planes, but only several days remain. Now we have (radar-guided surface-to-air) BUK (missile system), will shall bring them (planes) down.

Talks between terrorists, July 17, 2014

Khmuryi: Sergei Nikolaevich Petrovskiy, year of birth 1964, officer of Main Intelligence Directorate of Russian Federation, Deputy Chief of Ihor Girkin on Intelligence, at the time of the interception he was in Donetsk.

“Buryat” – militant of terrorist organization “DNR” (to be indentified).

Buryat: – Where should we load this beauty, Nikolaievich?

Khmuryi: Which one? This one?

B: Yes, the one I've brought. I'm already in Donetsk.

K: Is it the one I'm thinking about? “B...,”M” one?

B: Yes, yes, yes. “BUK”,”BUK”.

K: Is it on a tractor?

B: Yes, it's on it. We need to unload it somewhere, in order to hide.

K: Is it with a crew?

B: Yes, with the crew.

K: Don't hide it anywhere. She'll go there now.

July 17, 2014

Khmuryi: – Tell me, have you brought me one or two?

Buryat: One, one. Because they had a misunderstanding there. They didn't give us a tug. We loaded it and went at their own pace.

K: Did it go on her own or on a tug?

B: It crossed the line (border).

H: And now have you brought it on a tug? Don't put in anywhere... I'll tell now where it should go, it will go together with “Vostok” tanks.

Talks between terrorists, July 17, 2014

Khmuryi: Sergei Mikhailovich Petrovskiy, year of birth 1964, officer of Main Intelligence Directorate of Russian Federation, Deputy Chief of Ihor Girkin on Intelligence, at the time of the interception was in Donetsk

“Sanych” – militant of terrorist organization “DNR”. Deputy of Khmuryi.

K: Sanych, the point is that my “BUK–M” (modified Russian SAM system) will go with yours, it is on a tug. Where should I drive it to put in a column?

Sanych: There, behind “Motel”, not reaching Hornostaevka.

K: Just after the Motel, right?

July 17, 2014

Khmuryi: Listen to me carefully, behind the circle near “Motel” there will be you know what. Call to “Bibliotekar” (Librarian).

Bring inside only those, who just came back, only as much as you need for the convoy. Leave everyone else here. Not far away there is Pervomaiskoe, look at the map.

DNR militant: I got it.

Khmuryi: Settle somewhere in that area, bring there those who are left. Your task is reserve, plus protection of this piece (BUK–M), which you will drive now. “Giyrza” will come there too. If anything, I'm on line.

DNR militant: – Ok.

Talks between terrorists, July 17, 2014

Khmuryi: Sergei Mikhailovich Petrovskiy, 1964 year of birth, officer of Main Intelligence Directorate of Russian Federation, Deputy Chief of Ihor Girkin on Intelligence who at the time of the interception was in Donetsk

“Botsman” – officer of Main Intelligence Directorate of Russian Federation (to be identified).

H: Yes, Botsman, I'm listening.

B: Hello, big brother. How are you?

H: Not so well. We are in Mariinovka. That's why not well. Carrying on.

B: What's wrong?

H: What do you think? (The Ukrainian army is) attacking with “Grad” (multiple-rocket launchers) all the time, finally now we're having a little break. We've just hit a plane, Su–type. Because we've got BUK–M. They (Ukrainian soldiers) are now in Zelenopillja, trying to break free, but their way out is only through me. Yesterday we hit 2 Su jets, today – another two. Thank God “BUK–M” arrived today in the morning. It became easier. But in general, of course, it's tough.

B: What can I say, if you need anything, call me – and I'll arrive immediately.

H: Thanks, brother. I'm going in two hours...Seems like it's a lull. In two hours I'm heading to Donetsk. Because I was sent three more “Gvozdika” (self–propelled artillery). Will carry 'Gvozdikas' here because it's really tough now.

B: Maybe we should cover them with (our own) Grad (multiple-rocket launchers)?

H: The thing is that we have Grad, but no spotter. And secondly, we are waiting for Russia to f... them from their side.




(post by ozwest removed for a manners violation)

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