What Is Spirituality? Can You Lose It?

I somewhat recently read in 'The Perennial Philosophy' by Aldoux Huxley something to this effect. Many people exerience 'union with the divine ground,' or some sort of high spiritual state or stage towards enlightenment or however you would like to say it, who lose it because it was used primarily for the bliss it brings, and also not properly acknowledging the infinite behind it, instead thinking of it in terms of your self. That is an elaboration of something he said, and how I took it. Anyways, it kind of stuck with me.

I've said ad nauseum that I've felt very 'normal' for a while, after being in extremely high spiritual states, off and on anyways, for quite a while. Nor first of all, 'normal' doesn't have the same negative connotations for me that it used to. It's occurred to me that if you look upon normalcy disparagingly, you're saying that the great majority of the population is basically screwing up, ignorant or some such thing, and you're one of a select minority who is on the right track. This idea really underlies most of what is called spirituality if you really honestly think about it, and if you do think about it you may find that it is quite an un-spiritual idea. Very judgmental and ego-centric. This was the thought behind a thread I made somewhat recently, which I titled in a way that kinda summed up the idea; 'Real spirituality is not spirituality at all.' If we're discounting the majority of humanity as basically 'un-spiritual,' well, spirituality just lost all meaning. Any real spirituality would underlie the human condition, universally.

Anyways, back on topic. Well, I guess the thread has two topics now, really. lol. But back to the original topic. What do you think of this idea, that people who experience real genuine high states of spiritual consciousnses, and lose it, it may be perhaps because you lost sight of its greater purpose and source in pursuit of self-pleasure and self-importance?

Your state of being and train of thought has nothing more to do with your well being than what you are willing yourself to think and do at the moment.

You can meditate or whatever else to bring your being into a state of peace but once you stop you are under outside influences once again.

Resolve is the way to cement a state of mind. Living your life every day the way you choose to live it, decision by decision is the path to personal spirituality. No meditation or new age tactics needed. Just resolve and state of mind.

originally posted by: Helious
Your state of being and train of thought has nothing more to do with your well being than what you are willing yourself to think and do at the moment.

You can meditate or whatever else to bring your being into a state of peace but once you stop you are under outside influences once again.

Resolve is the way to cement a state of mind. Living your life every day the way you choose to live it, decision by decision is the path to personal spirituality. No meditation or new age tactics needed. Just resolve and state of mind.

Meditation is something I'm perpetually in a sort of limbo with. I'm on-off, on-off. I mean, it does seem to be beneficial whenever I do it. And when I was in what I perceived to be a high spiritual state, I did meditate, although even then not always perfectly consistently. I really don't have a reason for why for when I don't meditate. I just don't. I also know that realistically the goals of meditation require persistent practice. Part of me has been thinking along those lines as you say, spirituality is just life, moment to moment and what we do with it. On the other hand, that can also kinda lend itself to their not really being anything spiritual to pursue at all, no spiritual progress to be made. And that idea is very disheartening to me, because the idea of spirituality has been the great redeeming hope or ideal in my mind for some time now, which made me feel there was ultimately some purpose to it all.

What most call spirituality is in reality a new age counterfeit of true spirituality.

Satan counterfeits everything that God does.

He is a master of disguises.

"And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light." 2 Corinthians 11:14

This is why religion is probably his greatest masterpiece.

This is also why religion does exactly the opposite of what it is meant to do.

Real enlightenment only comes when we place ourselves under the rule and reign of the Lord Jesus Christ.

This is the reason why spirituality is the elite's PRIMARY target.

Enlightenment is a COUNTERFEIT which means there MUST be a genuine article.

The genuine is connecting with and walking with God (from the root meaning of the word religion)

The counterfeits are enlightenment, illumination, and ascension.

Light is what makes things visible or affords illumination.

Without light nothing would be visible.

This is why Jesus was hated by the religious people, He exposed the real deception of religion.

"The road to self enlightenment is a hard climb upwards and once you get there you'll find you really weren't going up after all, but down. I know from experience and my real enlightenment was when I found this out. Its hard to tell where your headed when darkness becomes light, and light is considered darkness. That is the great deception."

Source

New Age "spirituality" is just another TRAP set by the elite and inventors of religion, for the purpose of social control. People who aren't buying mainstream religion are in danger of finding true unified consciousness, which is exactly what the elite don't want, so they created New Age religion to keep people trapped in the matrix of CONTROL. It's like a last ditch effort to hold people down, to keep the ones who are "getting away" from escaping their control.

Notice how so many new agers defend the very religions that have mass murdered hundreds of millions of people using "I honor all paths" as an excuse, and they even go so far as to say that "people cause wars, not religions" but then ignore the fact that most of the world's wars have been INSPIRED by religious dogma and theology. They are just hypocrites defending mass murderous cults, and behaving no better than them. Mainstream religions do NOT deserve to be respected, they deserve to be condemned based upon their hypocritical, mass murderous, genocidal actions and anyone who defends these religions is defending genocide. Period.

The vast majority of new agers claim that they are "spiritual but not religious" but notice how so many new agers believe in Jesus, Buddha, Krishna and other "ascended masters" as "historical people." They're buying into bull# and believing in these mythic deities in the total and complete ABSENCE OF ALL EVIDENCE just the SAME as mainstream religious folks. Believing in fairy tales, myths and legends isn’t called being “enlightened” it’s called being gullible and living in the dark.

"New Age" Religion/Spirituality: Just more HYPOCRISY and MIND CONTROL

I think sometimes it can happen when a Spiritual person has something really bad happen to them or a loved one. Not everyone can accept what has happened & some wonder why God (or whatever name you call it) would allow for it to happen.

I can't speak for everyone that has slipped or lost touch but I think the above can have an impact. Also maybe seeing the state the world is in and all the suffering.

I sometimes want to "ground" myself more, to enable me to better achieve certain goals or intents in the material and physical world. So I become more "down to earth", and start to lose a bit of the communion with a deeper layer of life that I usually have.

Normally I am having a sort of experience of continual dialogue and exchange with the world, through words spoken around me, numbers, images and symbols- at least my subconscious seems to be very active and using the world around me to communicate with my conscious self.

This results in a sense of "spirituality" like there is a deeper and mystical unseen part of reality, which is very powerful.

But if I decide, say, that I am going to learn to play an instrument, or learn the skills of a new job, I will begin to tune out of all that, and life becomes extremely limited to three dimensions, and their objects.

I always come to a point where I feel an ache to have that connection again, and I wait until I have achieved the goal I had set, before I open my eyes again to the wide vision.

I agree that there is an abundance of "good" feeling in that state- on the other hand, I also find I enjoy the pressure and tension that can come with the focus "grounded" state. It is like all your power is concentrated. Time becomes a constraint, space too, you are squeezed into laws and limits to deal with in the game of life. That is what it is like- a game! Why do we play video games?? When real life has so much less challenges and dangers, and we can sit back and have a beer, instead of fighting dragons, climbing up buildings, or shooting others while crawling through mud...

Yeah, some people find the challenges in the material world "fun" even if they do not entail an experience of constant bliss and contentment! Sometimes they get to bliss, sit there for a while, then decide it gets kinda boring after a while!

Perhaps its a tug of war between satan (our materialistic world) and God (our spiritual nature) which never ends no matter how spiritual we become. Even Yeshua (Jesus) had to walk into the desert to face those demons.

a reply to: TheJourney

You cannot lose spirituality and to look down on the non-spiritual is not unspiritual IMO.

Yes, there is a feeling of belonging to the 5% minority; an elite somewhat. You only have to look around you at the masses of people who have sold their soul to the machine (forever texting, connecting, tweeting, liking and missing everything around them). We are going through a period when spirituality is disappearing . It is up to a few to hold the fort until spirituality comes back in a hundred years or so.

In the meantime we will witness armies or heartless people around us. Just when was the last time you saw someone on a train or in a supermarket with eyes and facial features that indicate kindness and compassion.

spirituality is a lost-cord...it is as truly attainable as the 'Philosophers Stone'............................


all your 'stash' & fortune will be divvied out to the parasites that share your DNA, blood, family tree...

good luck with living in a dream world --- as pleasant as it is to you

In the West, losing spirituality is falling from Gods grace, or not going to church. While in the East, just straying from a path, or lost ones way in some scary valley of death. Figuratively anyways.

You can pretty much look at like going to school or a martial arts, with different coloured belts. School supposed to give you the skills, while some tribe could have rituals for their hunters, shamans, or warriors. And if one progressed better then the other trainees, or padawans, they could even be Headchief one day, with the fancy head dress.

Like it was guaranteed by the Gods themselves, and ever falling from grace, or the path was considered eternal damnation. Or maybe thats how it could be viewed. You could call the "Arcane Arts" if you wanted too, no different then a healer overcoming some curse, or a warrior overcomes ones greatest fear. No different then someone studying some academics, and becoming a sage in a particular field of magic, maybe?

a reply to: TheJourney

It is hard to find balance sometimes.

You can feed yourself spiritually, but at some point, you have to feed your physical body too.
It is almost like being knocked down a peg,
when really it is just to remind you that you are here in the now.

It is easy to lose sight and sometimes a person needs to in order to do the things that life requires in order to stay balanced.

Life and spirit has it's ups and downs, and you need to find the center ground in order to stay with both at once. It is to easy to go either way (feast or famine) and then when a low hits, you find yourself losing faith in either man or spirit.
Lack of balance can do that.
This is why there is yin & yang.

I think it is something a lot of people go through, but then it is all in the perception.

IMO

And good morning ATS!
c(_) *sip*

originally posted by: TheJourney
What do you think of this idea, that people who experience real genuine high states of spiritual consciousnses, and lose it, it may be perhaps because you lost sight of its greater purpose and source in pursuit of self-pleasure and self-importance?

Those who reach these higher states of consciousness must remain AWARE that its an Eternal Existential Spiritual process that WILL always be challenging, especially to those who are seeking a heightened spiritual level of awareness.
These challenges to 1 subjectively TEST your spiritual intents and strengths to ADVANCE (look at it like its a test to make sure you are prepared for the next level you may be about to ASCEND to)... for to somehow ascend next level unprepared may place you in danger of ENERGIES that are observing your ascension process and waiting to overwhelm-take you, and so tested...

If you fail a test, to 1 it doesn't mean you fell off track spiritually, it to 1 means you may just require more spiritual integrity to make it thru or pass your testers/tempters next encounters with you. So you cannot give up.

1 has always felt if your SOUL LIGHT shines bright amongst a darkness it will be seen from afar by potential dark forces and so your LIGHT must be strong enough to overcome if those forces approach you in attempts to test you or just observe you closely.

NAMASTE*******

originally posted by: TheJourney
I somewhat recently read in 'The Perennial Philosophy' by Aldoux Huxley something to this effect. Many people exerience 'union with the divine ground,' or some sort of high spiritual state or stage towards enlightenment or however you would like to say it, who lose it because it was used primarily for the bliss it brings, and also not properly acknowledging the infinite behind it, instead thinking of it in terms of your self. That is an elaboration of something he said, and how I took it. Anyways, it kind of stuck with me.

The unitive state is temporary, at first, because as an altered state of consciousness it is very taxing. Eventually, a kind of fatigue sets in and the state wears off. The practices of mysticism are about preparing the mind and body to hold that state. When Jesus would lose it, he would go into the desert to pray.

So when the fatigue sets in, the state of union is lost, and the stage called the dark night of the soul begins. That dark and painful stage is a necessary part of mystical development. A mystic oscillates back and forth between those two, faster and faster, until it becomes a blur. Then, permanent union.

originally posted by: TheJourney
Meditation is something I'm perpetually in a sort of limbo with. I'm on-off, on-off. I mean, it does seem to be beneficial whenever I do it.

MANY on ATS have confirmed that meditation opens up a doorway for spirits to pass through.

Meditation acts as a beacon and opens up a doorway for these entities to pass through:

originally posted by: OkieDokie
My mother still suffers from attacks at that house, as does my aunt. I believe that these shadow people gain strength from the use of occultic objects and rituals. In an attempt to get rid of the activity at the house, my mother has burned sage, hung up dream catchers, and surrounds herself with anything paranormal. She has tried demanding for this thing to leave and has gone through meditations and imagining light surrounding the house. Throughout all of this, the shadow person has at times stepped up the attacks, or has remained unchanged.

Others here have mentioned that they have only seen the shadow people while meditating. I believe that all of these activities give them an "in" if you will.

My life has finally been rid of these shadow people and the only way that has happened is from me drawing close to Christ, spending time in the Word, and getting rid of any idols, as well as anything new-agey, paranormal, occultic ect. Like I had mentioned before, I was a Christian prior to all of these things taking place, but I wasn't living like it.

originally posted by: JayinAR
I I was mad as hell when I ran my spooks off and they don't come around much anymore. Nowadays it is just your average poltergeist crap ever once in awhile. Also I would add that meditation is what kicked off the worst experiences for me. Be careful with that stuff.

originally posted by: JiggyPotamus
Certain spirits can and will follow certain people home, for whatever reason. Certain spirits are more powerful than others. Certain ones basically have more abilities than others. How they learn how to manipulate the physical world to varying degrees I do not know, but I know that some are more powerful than others. And there really are things out there that are pure evil, things I would not wish on anyone, even if they mocked such things. These things are just that bad.

It takes someone who truly knows what they are doing to rid a location of spirits, and even many of these people cannot rid a location of purely evil spirits. A place that was never haunted before can become haunted, but I would say that the majority of the time there was something done to bring these entities in. Dabbling in the occult is apt to accomplish this, but sometimes it only takes something as simple as meditating. Meditation opens a person up, or can at least, to such things. It can act as a beacon to certain entities. I don't know how often it happens, but I know it can happen, for whatever reason. So my advice to everyone is don't mess around, even if you "think" you know what you're doing

New Age deep meditation and hypnotism are particularly dangerous. They are not recognized as being channels to demons, but they provide a direct pathway for demonic influence upon the mind. Communication with demons

Meditation is the technique whereby a person empties his mind of all conscious thought, while chanting a series of repetitive words or phrases as many times as possible. Once a person does this repeatedly, he/she will begin to experience the phenomenon whereby the mind begins to lose its normal contact with the body. This phenomena is called an "Out-of-Body" experience, and is very common in occultic circles.

Once the mind loses its normal connection with the body the person then is ready to meet his/her "Guiding Spirit". Christian author, Johanna Michaelson, captures the Satanic essence of meditation and Guiding Spirits in her book, "The Beautiful Side Of Evil". Guiding Spirits identify themselves by name, including Jesus Christ, the Virgin Mary, or one of the Apostles.

The person who is involved is truly deceived into thinking they have just discovered THE one, true way to actually come into contact with God. In reality, they have just come into contact with a Satanic demon, who has temporarily transformed himself into a being appearing very kind, gentle, and wise. The stage is set for these demonic beings to manipulate and mislead their human victims. These people have become demonically possessed. WALK-INS

The human spirit has tremendous power. Because man is in bondage to sin, for him to access now his human spirit with his soul means using the power of the human spirit for greater evil and sin. That is why all religions outside of the Bible and Jesus Christ tell you to meditate by blanking your mind. Why? Satan is behind this teaching because he wants access to our human spirit and the tremendous power it holds to use for His evil purposes.

Since for this reason God does not want us to access our human spirit, the only way a religious person outside of Christ is able to access his human spirit is though demonic power, a demonic spirit bridging the human soul to the human spirit, but under the demonic spirit’s control. For this reason, God in His Word forbids us to access our human spirit.

The Human Spirit and Meditation

During meditation, a person descends to deeper levels of his consciousness where he discovers the psychic powers and spiritual gifts to heal himself and solve his problems. He meets “the god within” who is wrongly regarded as the God of the Bible. It is this “god” who is dark and mysterious, and may leave evil impressions in the subconscious mind of the person. Eastern Meditation Sneaks into the Church

a reply to: Murgatroid

You are right to warn about the dangers of meditation i.e. contemplative prayer. Only contemplatives called by God should practice it. Even then, it is dangerous, because you can't get close to God without activating the built-in spiritual opposition system inside us all. It fights you every step of the way, and it levels up with you.

But I think The Journey, our intrepid OP, is such a contemplative. Every contemplative faces the dark night of the soul...

en.m.wikipedia.org...

Opening yourself to God means opening yourself to the trials and tribulations that all mystics, including Jesus, face according to their measure. Don't be afraid. Easier said than done, I know.

originally posted by: BlueMule
a reply to: Murgatroid

You are right to warn about the dangers of meditation i.e. contemplative prayer. Only contemplatives called by God should practice it. Even then, it is dangerous, because you can't get close to God without activating the built-in spiritual opposition system inside us all. It fights you every step of the way, and it levels up with you.

But I think The Journey, our intrepid OP, is such a contemplative. Every contemplative faces the dark night of the soul...

en.m.wikipedia.org...

Opening yourself to God means opening yourself to the trials and tribulations that all mystics, including Jesus, face according to their measure. Don't be afraid. Easier said than done, I know.

I appreciate the kind words. Also that book, The Cloud of Unknowing. I know I read at least some of it before. The ideas of it, looking at the Wikipedia entry, seems to be something that could be in line with something I could be looking for. Will have to check it out again.

a reply to: TheJourney
The first glimpses of 'spirit' are blissful and can last what seems like some time. What is it that has changed though? What is it that makes life 'blissful'? It is the end of internal conflict. When 'internal' conflict ends then the appearing world just appears as it does without anyone saying or expecting it to be different.
Here is a great video about the internal chatter that goes on it is called 'Muppets inside our head' -
The chatter in the head can be noticed, it is experienced. That which is experiencing is what you are - the witnessing presence. A shift in where you see from is what happens. It is as if you then become the space in which all appears to happen including all thought and all sensation. The mind is just thought that is arising presently, sensation arising presently is what is called the body but without the 'witnessing presence' (that you are) nothing could appear.
The witnessing presence and that which is witnessed are not ever separate - they are never two things. The witness is like the ocean and that which is witnessed is like waves in the ocean. The waves are not made of anything other than the ocean.

a reply to: TheJourney
In this interview Paul Smit speaks about the process of awakening - it is very enlightening.

a reply to: crowdedskies

I find this post very disturbing. I am thankful that not all spiritual people feel the way you do. Sadly, I see so many people who claim to be spiritual but have no empathy for others and worse, they think they are superior. Your attitude is the opposite of spirituality IMO.

And yes, you can lose spirituality.

Too look down on the nonspiritual is not love or spiritual. It is excessive pride and ego.


I see kindness and compassion often. A persons facial appearance may betray them though. I know people who look kind, compassionate, and have an innocent look to them but their hearts are like ice. I know others who look tough and hard on the outside, but are the most loving people you will ever meet.

Sadly, even in my own quest to discover what true spirituality is, I see certain people here and else where that claim to be spiritual, and I think to myself, "if that is spirituality, then I want nothing to do with it." I often think those people are here to drive people away from spirituality, despite the fact that there people often make claims that they are trying to draw people to it.

originally posted by: calstorm
Too look down on the nonspiritual is not love or spiritual. It is excessive pride and ego.

To look down on the unspiritual is to not realize that all is spirit.
The one that all appears in is not made of anything other than all that is appearing. Or to put it another way - all that appears is not made of anything other than spirit.
If there is a thought which says one is more spiritual than another then there is a belief in more than one - so the point has been missed.