"Our God is a Consuming Fire" - Hell is burning in God's Love which Souls of Darkness cannot hand

a reply to: arpgme

So you dont think faith in Jesus is needed?

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

If you had faith in Jesus, you would have believed him when he said this:

Matthew 7:12
"Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets."

Or even this:

Matthew 5:44-45
But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

Or this:

Matthew 5:9
Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.

Jesus taught people what is needed to be considered a child of God. He taught people that Love (treating others as you'd like to be treated) IS God's law and what his prophet's taught.

And this verse is just agreeing with what Jesus himself already said:

1 John 4:7-8
"Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love."

a reply to: arpgme

You just totally side stepped my question and in the process made all sorts of false accusations by implication against my character.

I do treat others as I like to be treated. I love other including my enemies, and I try to remember that those who attack me are really attacking Jesus. You have no right to make such implications about my character.

Here is one for you:

1 “Do not judge so that you will not be judged. 2 “For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you.

Now understand that I am not pointing the finger and calling anyone a non-believer. I am simply pointing out that those who have no faith in Christ do not have the Holy Spirit, and therefore do not have capacity for Godly love, but only bio-chemical pseudo-love.

So again, I ask you a simple 'yes or no' question.

Does one need to believe on the Son (Jesus) to recieve Eternal Life?

Id like a straight answer this time, please.

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
I do treat others as I like to be treated. I love other including my enemies, and I try to remember that those who attack me are really attacking Jesus. You have no right to make such implications about my character.

I didn't criticize your actions at all. I'm just pointing out the fact that you did not believe Jesus when he said in those verses that Love makes you a child of God, otherwise you would have been satisfied with 1 John 4:7-8 in the beginning of our conversation.

I didn't judge you. I made an observation. You did not agree with 1 John 4:5-8 when it said that Love means that you are born of God, and when you ask if Faith in Jesus is needed I pointed out how he said the same thing and yet you still refuse to believe.

Does one need to believe on the Son (Jesus) to recieve Eternal Life?

Id like a staight answer this time, please.

Is calling Jesus "Lord" going to get you to Heaven? NO.

Do you need to have Faith in Jesus's WORDS? YES.

Only taking the right ACTIONS, in other words, doing the Will of The Heavenly Father brings you to heaven
(That's what Jesus himself says in Matthew 7:21)

Jesus does not judge you, it's his WORDS that judge you because his words are TRUTH and they came from The Heavenly Father:

John 12:47-48
And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world. He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

You need to have FAITH that Jesus taught you the truth that Loving, Forgiving, and Giving to others really is how to be a child of God (Matthew 5:44-45 ), and that treating others as you would like to be treated really is God's Law is and what his prophets taught (Matthew 7:12 ) and that peacemakers really will be called Children of God (Matthew 5:9).

a reply to: arpgme

What about the fact that He died as a payment for our sins on the cross? Do we have to believe in that for Eternal Life? That is very different than just calling Him Lord.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

I don't recall him saying any thing like that...

Sounds like Paul to me...

a reply to: Akragon

Well, I hate to bust your bubble, but Paul was an Apostle. His teachings were based on the same teachings as Christ's, both of which are rooted deeply in OT. The OT was metered for authenticity, the Gospels were metered for authenticity, and guess what, so were Paul's epistles along with the rest of NT. This meter established the prophetic timeline from the Fall of Adam to Revelation, so you'll have to try alot harder than making unfounded claims to make a serious point about the bible.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Well you can call it metered all you like... the fact remains he didn't say you have to believe I died for your sins to receive eternal life...

but he did say what Arpgme told you... Jesus trumps Paul in every case

So I really don't have to try at all... im just stating a fact

a reply to: Akragon

If Jesus specifically appointed Apostles to spread His word, why do you insist on rejecting them? How can you accept Jesus as truth, yet reject the very foundation of His ministry?

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Its quite easy actually...

IF they don't line up with what he said... theres no reason to add to what he said

HE didn't say what you're claiming he said... its as simple as that...

And considering Paul was a self appointed "apostle"... hes quite easy to reject...

a reply to: Akragon

But it does line up with what He said. Its easy to distort Jesus' words, as you constantly do, when you ignore the OT and NT context. There is no justification for that. Jesus came as a Jew to fulfill the Jewish prophecies. The Temple was His father's house. The history of the Temple, its function and symbolism is the OT. You cannot discard that...its irresponsible. Jesus did teach love, but He also taught rebirth. Frist comes rebirth, then love.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Personal attacks backed by silly Christian dogma doesn't work with me brother... you should know that by now...

I can disregard what I please... And love is not a strictly Christian thing... in fact I would say most so called Christians haven't got a clue what love is... Most follow Jesus when its convenient and shrug him off as they see fit

Oh... and im not the one trying to claim Jesus said something he didn't here either...

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

The point I'm making is this.

1 John 4:7-8 says:

"Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love."

Either this statement is true, that everyone who loves is born of God and knows God or it is not.

1 John 4:12 says

"No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us."

Either it is true that loving others means that God dwells in you or it does not.

1 John 4:16 says

And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

Either it is true that dwelling in love means dwelling in God or it does not.

In Matthew 5:9 where Jesus first gave his teachings on The Mount, before he began he said

Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.

Either this is true or it isn't.

I choose to have Faith that these are true teachings and that Jesus actually did receive these teachings from Heaven through his Oneness with The Heavenly Father and my life is more peaceful following these teaching so it proves itself true. You will reap Peace if you Sow peace. You cannot get grapes from thorns.

a reply to: arpgme

I understand your point.

My question was, do you believe Jesus died as payment for our sins?? Yes, or no?

My point is that we must first have Jesus inside of us, by faith in His atoning sacrifice before we can truley love.

Isaiah 64:6 For all of us have become like one who is unclean, And all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment; And all of us wither like a leaf, And our iniquities, like the wind, take us away.

The love of humans is not love. In God's eyes it is filth. It isnt until we are born again that we are capable of love.

Ephesians 2: 1 And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, 2 in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. 3 Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. 4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

All sons of Adam are born as "children of wrath" by nature, not love (Ephesians 2:3). It is not until the righteousness of Christ is credited to us by faith that we are then capable of expressing the same love that God has.

The love of the flesh is bio-chemical in nature ONLY. There is no spirit involved. It is unstable and arbitrary, nothing like God's love.

a reply to: Akragon
"Disregarding what you please" is called cherry picking, and it does hold water. I cant speak for all who consider themselves christians, but I know that most of them dont really believe. If they did, things would be different. I must admit, that you do frustrate me, but as stated before, I only entertain these conversations out of love for you, with hope that you might at some point open your eyes.

You and I are not of the same kind, definitely not brothers. We may both share similar bodies in the flesh, but flesh will pass away. You know what dogma I teach and yet you consistently persue me in debate. I get the feeling that you much rather enjoy dissension over fellowship. I have love AND faith in Jesus payment for my sins. You have love. Which one counts in the end? In this bet, I have nothing to lose.

Believe what you will, but remember that in the end, after this age has passed away, it will cost you.

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: Akragon
I have love AND faith in Jesus payment for my sins. You have love. Which one counts in the end? In this bet, I have nothing to lose.

Believe what you will, but remember that in the end, after this age has passed away, it will cost you.

You are saying "you have love" as if that is less meaningful. God is Love, so Love is the one that counts the most.

1 John 4:7-8
"Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love."

1 Corinthians 13:8
Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.

Love is what everyone needs since God is love. Faith in Love since Love never fails.

a reply to: arpgme

What about Isaiah 64 and Ephesians 2? Are you going to ignore my points on those?

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Do you believe in the words of Jesus Christ ?

If Jesus Christ says that the peacemakers will be called the children of God before there was ever any talk about being crucified or dying for sins, then should his words be trusted?

My main source for scripture is Jesus Christ's teachings which he gave on The Sermon on The Mount, Jesus was the clearest voice and everything else comes after. You should start first with the words of Jesus since his teachings come from Heaven and he never sinned and he is the clearest voice, THEN the scriptures come to life, until then you will stay with a veil over your heart.

2 Corinthians 3:14
But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

"Disregarding what you please" is called cherry picking, and it does hold water.

I know it holds water... and that is not cherry picking...

Cherry picking is when you take a verse and make it out to be something that has nothing to do with the rest of the chapter...

I cant speak for all who consider themselves christians, but I know that most of them dont really believe. If they did, things would be different.

Says you... Who are you to say what Christians believe or don't believe? I only know them based on what I've seen... but I wouldn't tell them they don't believe

Though as I've said to you many times before... Belief will get you no where if theres no action behind said belief

I must admit, that you do frustrate me, but as stated before, I only entertain these conversations out of love for you, with hope that you might at some point open your eyes.

Don't worry... I frustrate people of all "Christian" denominations... and its because I use the books that convict them of their inaccuracies

but you speak of love for me... yet...

You and I are not of the same kind, definitely not brothers.

nice...

You know what dogma I teach and yet you consistently persue me in debate. I get the feeling that you much rather enjoy dissension over fellowship.

I don't pursue you any more then I chase down other Christians who use his words incorrectly... or claim he said something that he didn't

And I don't do this fellowship thing that Christians speak of either... I walk my path with Christ alone, I ask no one to follow... nor do I care if they choose to

I have love AND faith in Jesus payment for my sins. You have love. Which one counts in the end? In this bet, I have nothing to lose.

You have the words of Paul... clearly by your own admission

Faith alone... with his death as a payment for your issues...

Jesus spoke of Love while he was alive.... which is all that counts in the end

And IF you read the gospels... you should know that

Personally i would place my bet on his words before Paul... obviously you don't feel the same...

Believe what you will, but remember that in the end, after this age has passed away, it will cost you.

Judge me as you will

a reply to: Akragon

I must apologize for my conduct towards you in this conversation. The things I said were written out of frustration, but that is no excuse. I dont think there is any middle ground between you and I, so I suppose I'll have to accept that.