Why do peole think that Jesus was god?

Dual post...

Understanding of who Jesus really is:

He is the firstborn of all creation. God's only begotten son. Because he is the first spirit created by God, and through him all other spirits and creation were created, he is the chief messenger (angel) of God.

Jesus was his earthly name, but in the heavens his name is Michael.

While on earth, Jesus was tempted by Satan "The devil led him up to a high place and showed him in an instant all the kingdoms of the world. And he said to him, "I will give you all their authority and splendor, for it has been given to me, and I can give it to anyone I wan to. So if you worship me, it will all be yours." Jesus answered, "it is written: Worship the Lord your God and serve him only" (Luke 4:5-8)

In a similar manner Michael dealt with Satan: " even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not dare to bring a slanderous accusation against him, but said, "the Lord rebuke you." (Jude 9)

In the end times we see something interesting at (Daniel 12:1) "At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people (YHVH's), will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people-everyone whose name is written in the book-will be delivered."

We see in the end times at (Revelation 12:7): And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels battled with the dragon, and the dragon and it's angels battled but did not prevail, neither was a place found for them any longer in heaven." This depicts the time when Jesus received the kingdom, and ousted the wicked spirits from heaven.

At 1 Thessalonians 4:16 we see Jesus "will come down from heaven , with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God."

He receives the kingdom from his father God (YHVH), and thus he is the prince of his people: " no one supports me against them except Michael, your prince." (Daniel 10:21)

a reply to: roth1

OP,

I suggest you look into Two powers in Heaven doctrine of the Jews. Alan Segal, a Jew, has a book on it, and though he believes the doctrine is heretical he admits that the doctrine wasn't considered heretical until 2nd century AD(Makes sense seeing as how the Jews were foretold to have a hardening of heart until the fullness of the Gentiles). I have made a thread posting a synopsis on a video mentioning some of these things.

Just for quick paraphrases from Jesus off the top of my head:

I and the Father are One( the Greek word used for one literally means the number one)

If you have seen me You have seen the father

Before Abraham was born, I am!

Evidence of Two powers in Heaven using Old testament:

Genesis 19:24

24 Then YHWH rained on Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire from YHWH out of heaven,

Notice the wording here, YHWH rains fire from who? YHWH. 1st and 3rd person. Just like Jesus talking to the Father.

Which I think a fair analogy of that is also in man. Remember God is perfect. He is invisible, but He has an image which is Jesus. You my friend are invisible but you have an image that is your Body. The things that is you, the Ghost in the Biological Hardware that walks around communicates on a daily basis with your Body and you Body communicates things like pain and pleasure and taste to the Ghost. Jesus the image of God and the Father the invisible part of God communicate between each other as well its just on a far greater level.

Amos 4:11

I have wrought destruction among you, as when God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah; You have become like a brand plucked from burning. Yet you have not turned back to Me- declares YHWH

Here it is again. The first word "I" and last word "YHWH" let us know that YHWH is speaking, but notice who He says destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah, God. 1st and 3rd person again.

Genesis 22
11 But the angel of the Lord called to him from heaven and said, “Abraham, Abraham!” And he said, “Here I am.” 12 He said, “Do not stretch out your hand against the lad, and do nothing to him; for now I know that you fear God, since you have not withheld your son, your only son, from Me.

Here again we have the angel of the Lord(which is God as you can tell from Genesis 22:1 God was the one doing the testing and he confirms this by saying that Abraham did not keep his son from "Me") Notice in verse, twelve however the angel of the Lord says he knows that Abraham fears God(3rd person) but hasn't kept his son from Me(1st person).

Just a few reasons people believe Jesus is God.

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

Your just hanging on to pagan tradition, and justifying it. Osiris, Horus, Isis the Egyptian trinity and such. Why would any reasonable person conclude from "I and the father are one" means they are one and the same. "I and my wife are one" we think alike and are bonded together. We are not the same person. What horse hockey reasoning!

originally posted by: nenothtu

originally posted by: maes2
I am not sure but I think we can find such a difference in beliefs of Saint Peter and Paul. Someone who has a deep knowledge of Christianity can search about this.
Did Saint Peter consider Jesus as God !?
Saint Peter who Jesus said about him " I give you keys of heaven whatever you open it opens in heaven and ......"

The most basic answer is that in the Bible, at Matthew 16:16, Peter said that Jesus was "the Messiah, the Son of the living God", and that is what is recorded and most widely disseminated of his thought on the matter. I'm not aware of anywhere that Peter called Jesus God.

Thanks a lot I checked it !
ܟܐܦܐ ܘܐܡܪ ܐܢܬ ܗܘ ܡܫܝܚܐ ܒܪܗ ܕܐܠܗܐ
biblehub.com...
Kapha (saint Peter) said " You are Messiah son of Allaha (Allah) "

a reply to: roth1

Quoted from You : " Remember the bible says that god said not to worship any before him. Isn't this against the bible? I don't know for sure if this is a conspiracy, but some group propagated this for some intent. "
That's IT Right There!! Like 'they' say, Beware the Devil, He'll twist things around so slyly that you won't even realize that anything out of the ordinary has happened! Churches that worship The empty Cross, The cross with Jesus on it, etc., are ALL doing the Devil's bidding! ( That's just my opinion of course, but if you look at it, Can there be any other way to look at that?!!!??? )
Yah I know, some will say that it's just a symbol representing God. But That's it too! SYMBOL! There should be NOTHING Up in front of worshippers. God knows what they mean when there is worshipping going on! Wouldn't ya think?! LOL!!!

I have always thought that was wrong. Good Post! Star and Flag for You!!! Later, Syx

originally posted by: TheChrome
a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

Your just hanging on to pagan tradition, and justifying it. Osiris, Horus, Isis the Egyptian trinity and such. Why would any reasonable person conclude from "I and the father are one" means they are one and the same. "I and my wife are one" we think alike and are bonded together. We are not the same person. What horse hockey reasoning!

I believe its more than that - truly I believe it is an inability to comprehend the true Greatness of Jesus' Creator. Let me explain why:

When a person has an experience for the first time, and is face to face with the power of Jesus, His love and peace and power, it is something so beautiful and so magnificent that a persons mind is blown out of the water. It is so all-encompassing that it seems completely impossible for anything to be greater than this.

In such a mind blown state, they look at the verses in the bible and to their heart those verses agree for the first time with their head. They see what they now believe, even though its simply a matter of seeing what you want to see, rather than what is actually there.

Is it purposeful? No. Their minds simply cannot comprehend and wrap around what they have experienced - let alone now imagine that there could possibly exist any power that is greater.

What they then miss, is that power that IS greater than minds can fathom. They miss the power and majesty of the One who created such a being as Jesus, such beings as the angels to which if allowed men would prostrate before for their own majesty and splendor.

I would hate to miss that One... even though He is beyond my comprehension and well beyond my limited capacity of thought. HE is the one to whom the mountains prostrate, and if he exposed his face to them - the mountains would crumble to dust.

The fact that God gave us a Door to Him is wonderful - a Door we can see without turning to dust. But its still a door, a means of better understanding the One who is beyond all our comprehension. It is not that One...

This is not intentional, this is something the mind does when it is blown out of the water. They are not saying to themselves I am holding the pagan mentality. They simply cannot understand that there DOES exist a Greater than This..... not able to see the forest through the trees I suppose.

I think people need teachers to get them through this period, people who have been there and can help them struggle through everything their mind is telling them about Jesus, to help them stay on the path to God. This moment in time, if you can get through it keeping God at the center and realize Jesus is still a creation of HIM... you have will have conquered a great battle.

I would ask, if what you see in Jesus is this great, then how much greater and worthy of worship is the One who Created Him?

I disagree with judging people harshly for this, and believe teaching people is important - for those who desire to learn. As my husband said, we cannot preach people into hell - that is not our purview; one who belongs to God can never be taken out of His Hand, not even by them selves.

originally posted by: Stormdancer777

originally posted by: deadeyedick
a reply to: nenothtu GOD probaly hangs out in dark matter. Afterall it is said that 90% of the cosmos is made up of this stuff and they no not what it is. I imagine that what we see as dark matter on this side is light on the other side of our existance.

The lord has said he will dwell in a dark cloud.

This was not a literal statement.

As it states in Psalms 119:130 "The unfolding of your words gives light; it gives understanding to the simple."

People are the one walking around in the dark; while we are yet in darkness bringing us to HIS light.

Darkness can also refer to the veil of sight in this world, here, in this world, our connection to God is like looking through a glass darkly, according to the bible. We cannot see or experience the fullness of God while we are in this life and on this earth...

It's not meant to be taken as God lives in dark clouds or dark matter. God is everywhere, and HE himself is Light.

1 John 1:5 "This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all."

Psalm 139:7-12 "Where can I go from your Spirit? Or where can I flee from your presence? If I ascend into heaven, you are there; if I make my bed in hell, behold, you are there; if I take the wings of the morning and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea, even there your hand shall lead me, and your right hand shall hold me. If I say, "Surely the darkness will hide me and the light become night around me," even the darkness will not be dark to you; the night will shine like the day, for darkness is as light to you".

originally posted by: TheChrome
a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

Your just hanging on to pagan tradition, and justifying it. Osiris, Horus, Isis the Egyptian trinity and such. Why would any reasonable person conclude from "I and the father are one" means they are one and the same. "I and my wife are one" we think alike and are bonded together. We are not the same person. What horse hockey reasoning!

Why would any reasonable person believe that was a claim that Jesus meant they were one in the same? Hmn I dunno could be because Jesus says that in john 10:30 where three verses later we are told Jews pick up stones ready to stone him because they believed he was claiming to be God. Thomas calls him my lord and my god and Jesus doesn't correct him. Maybe because you are looking at the English translation without looking at the original language.

Pretty sure the universe is made of Darkness.

And becoming another external source of light wouldn't reveal it to you.

Now if you made of the same composition as *nothing* you would see through the *veil* because there would no longer be a veil.

But without it, You and everyone else will remain in darkness forever. Even if you are a firefly among the universe.

Also Psalms is Old Testament and makes references to YHWY

Psalm 121:5
The LORD watches over you-- the LORD is your shade at your right hand;

Psalm 135
Yahweh Is Great

1 Hallelujah!
Praise the name of Yahweh.
Give praise, you servants of Yahweh
2 who stand in the house of Yahweh,
in the courts of the house of our God.
3 Praise Yahweh, for Yahweh is good;
sing praise to His name, for it is delightful.
4 For Yahweh has chosen Jacob for Himself,
Israel as His treasured possession.

5 For I know that Yahweh is great;
our Lord is greater than all gods.
6 Yahweh does whatever He pleases
in heaven and on earth,
in the seas and all the depths.
7 He causes the clouds to rise from the ends of the earth.
He makes lightning for the rain
and brings the wind from His storehouses.

8 He struck down the firstborn of Egypt,
both man and beast.
9 He sent signs and wonders against you, Egypt,
against Pharaoh and all his officials.
10 He struck down many nations
and slaughtered mighty kings:
11 Sihon king of the Amorites,
Og king of Bashan,
and all the kings of Canaan.
12 He gave their land as an inheritance,
an inheritance to His people Israel.

13 Yahweh, Your name endures forever,
Your reputation, Yahweh,
through all generations.
14 For Yahweh will vindicate His people
and have compassion on His servants.

15 The idols of the nations are of silver and gold,
made by human hands.
16 They have mouths but cannot speak,
eyes, but cannot see.
17 They have ears but cannot hear;
indeed, there is no breath in their mouths.
18 Those who make them are just like them,
as are all who trust in them.

19 House of Israel, praise Yahweh!
House of Aaron, praise Yahweh!
20 House of Levi, praise Yahweh!
You who revere the Lord, praise the Lord!
21 May the Lord be praised from Zion;
He dwells in Jerusalem.
Hallelujah!

Psalm 124
The Lord Is on Our Side
A Davidic song of ascents.

1 If the Lord had not been on our side—
let Israel say—
2 If the Lord had not been on our side
when men attacked us,
3 then they would have swallowed us alive
in their burning anger against us.
4 Then the waters would have engulfed us;
the torrent would have swept over us;
5 the raging waters would have swept over us.

6 Praise the Lord,
who has not let us be ripped apart by their teeth.
7 We have escaped like a bird from the hunter’s net;
the net is torn, and we have escaped.
8 Our help is in the name of Yahweh,
the Maker of heaven and earth.


And then Jesus Says. *John 18:36 ESV

Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would have been fighting, that I might not be delivered over to the Jews. But my kingdom is not from the world.” *

And then Yhwh Says.

Psalms 37:9 - For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD, they shall inherit the earth.


Then Jesus says *John Chapter 11

25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?*

Then Yahweh says Psalms 115:16 - The heaven, [even] the heavens, [are] the LORD'S: but the earth hath he given to the children of men.

Then Jesus says *
Matthew 24:36 - But of that day and hour knoweth no [man], no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Matthew Chapter 7

13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide [is] the gate, and broad [is] the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

14 Because strait [is] the gate, and narrow [is] the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

*Hall of the Two Truths
by Dr Harald Fuchs
Ancient Egyptian culture was obsessed with the idea of eternal life beyond death, and the need to avoid personal extinction. As a result, the culture exerted enormous resources in the development of theological and philosophical underpinnings of a belief in the migration of a soul from the material world to Tuat, the spiritual world. Magical formulae which revealed the passwords and spells required to gain admittance to the afterworld needed to be learned, so Books of the Dead which revealed such lore were deposited with the corpse. From the 18th Dynasty, a standardized belief in otherworldly Judgment took center stage. In this notion, each soul had to approach the Hall of Two Truths, hear their deeds pronounced by Thoth, and have their hearts weighed by Osiris upon the scales of Ma'at, all in the presence of 45 Judges. If their hearts were light with purity, sobeit; but if they were heavy with guilt, then the fires of the pit and the tender ministrations of Ammit would be their lot. *

Seems way to similar if you ask me. To what is being rehersed in the Text.

a reply to: AnuTyr

Darkness doesn't exist. Its is only the absence of light. So I doubt the universe is made of something that is not.

a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

Why would any reasonable person believe that was a claim that Jesus meant they were one in the same? Hmn I dunno could be because Jesus says that in john 10:30

That's just dishonest.... He does not say One and the same...

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

Why would any reasonable person believe that was a claim that Jesus meant they were one in the same? Hmn I dunno could be because Jesus says that in john 10:30

That's just dishonest.... He does not say One and the same...

No doubt! In verse 29 just before verse 30 it says "my Father who has given them to me is greater than all" Once again Jesus apparently is giving to himself, and is greater than himself. Ha ha

originally posted by: DarknStormy
a reply to: nenothtu

There is only one way it can work. He was not dead when they took him off the stake.

You need to find out medically what it means when you pierce someone's side ..in this case with a spear..and water comes out of the wound.

Highly enlightened people tend to avoid this knowledge but it has been known for thousands of years before medical science of today.

Thanks,
Orangetom

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Text It's very explicit in Paul's epistles that Jesus is God/Yahweh, yet Jesus never calls himself God.. Paul authored over half of the NT with 13 epistles, he is the one who twisted Jesus' words IMO.

Where did Paul twist words to make Jesus into God? The bible says the Word became flesh. The bible does not say the Word was flesh. Big difference. Jesus was not the Celestial Word as He was Jesus a terrestrial man. The celestial Word was spirit and not flesh. As it became flesh it then changed substance and became man. Jesus the man did not create but the celestial Word created this universe.

Apostle John says ------

John_20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

This shows very plainly that the Father god was not Jesus.

Now if Paul twisted this around then Paul is wrong. What say you?

a reply to: Seede

Where did Paul twist words to make Jesus into God? The bible says the Word became flesh. The bible does not say the Word was flesh. Big difference.

Don't short sheet this phrase. You are not telling it in it's entirety. It says the Word was made flesh...and more.

Here is the entirety.

John 1:14 Translations

King James Version (KJV)

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

The Word is one of the names of God.

So too are Grace and Truth..

This is known by Believers knowledgeable in the Word ..Knowledgeable in the Spirit.

Thanks,
Orangetom

originally posted by: orangetom1999
a reply to: Seede

Where did Paul twist words to make Jesus into God? The bible says the Word became flesh. The bible does not say the Word was flesh. Big difference.

Don't short sheet this phrase. You are not telling it in it's entirety. It says the Word was made flesh...and more.

Here is the entirety.

John 1:14 Translations

King James Version (KJV)

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

The Word is one of the names of God.

So too are Grace and Truth..

This is known by Believers knowledgeable in the Word ..Knowledgeable in the Spirit.

Thanks,
Orangetom

What does only begotten mean? Did God beget himself?

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

Why would any reasonable person believe that was a claim that Jesus meant they were one in the same? Hmn I dunno could be because Jesus says that in john 10:30

That's just dishonest.... He does not say One and the same...

None of what I said was dishonest john 10:30 is the verse that Jesus says I and the father are one. The word translated one is the Greek word for the number 1 indicating Jesus meant exactly what he said, him and the father are 1 as in one being. We can tell he was making a claim to diety by john 10:33 where the people he was talking to are upset because he claims to be God. You left that part out of your quote though I guess so you could say I was dishonest rather than look at the facts

originally posted by: TheChrome

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: ServantOfTheLamb

Why would any reasonable person believe that was a claim that Jesus meant they were one in the same? Hmn I dunno could be because Jesus says that in john 10:30

That's just dishonest.... He does not say One and the same...

No doubt! In verse 29 just before verse 30 it says "my Father who has given them to me is greater than all" Once again Jesus apparently is giving to himself, and is greater than himself. Ha ha

Well if Jesus is Gods image just like your body is the image of your invisible spirit it would.make sense that Jesus calls god greater than He. Jesus is a part of God that is subservient to a part called the father much in the same way that your body is subservient to your decisions. Nothing is hard to understand about that now it's your turn to explain john 10:33

a reply to: 5StarOracle
Except in the kaballa and other sources it's not Jesus but an actual name for god

a reply to: orangetom1999

This is correct in the esoteric circles such as the kaballa and other texts the word was an actual word