Largest ever study of its kind finds significant differences between organic and non-organic food

False, I've studied agriculture before. I'm also not a shrill pro-organic person. I know that the difference is not that much.

Please explain how massive corporate or conventional agricultural run-off is NOT harming entire ecosystems. You can't. I can cite an army of studies from all sides. Organic agriculture is not just these single variables such as synthetic pesticides versus organic. It's also a slew of practices, awarenesses, water use, using moderate versus excess amounts of pesticides, etc.

originally posted by: Pimpish
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

You didn't read the whole thing, did you?

Case in point: "People buy organic because they think it's better for the environment; it's not. It's safer; it's not. It tastes better; it doesn't. It's more nutritious; it isn't. And these are all misconceptions that have been deliberately promoted -- according to these authors -- by organic farmers and organic proponents despite the fact that scientific evidence doesn't support any of these claims."

ETA: Link to an actual study: www.plosone.org...

originally posted by: AutumnWitch657
If farmers could all agree to go natural with fertilizers and insecticides if they would rotate crops to renew the soil the soil will respond with better water retention, and higher nutrients for the plants to use. Over time this would be less expensive. For centuries we used natural methods to grow foods. The chemicals may be easier but it poisons water supplies and causes fish die offs. Unfortunately we can't get the super growers to agree to give up their easy methods. They'd have to hire more people to walk the fields and sometimes hand pick the bugs off of the plants.

Exactly, the run-off is extremely harmful to the environment. That has been studied and proven by all manners of scientists. Organic is not just about single variables such as what chemicals are used but also sustainable use of water, chemicals, land, et.

a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

When did I state agriculture run off isn't harming the ecosystem? Please point that out for me, as I don't recall saying that or even implying that.

What I did say, however, is that the organic pesticides are not necessarily any better for the ecosystem than the synthetic stuff. Feel free to believe whatever you want. Take the studies or don't, it's obviously your choice and it's your money. If you want to waste it on organic food so you feel like you're harming the environment less than the rest of us, feel free. It doesn't have to be true for you to believe it, and the feeling you get is real so there you go.

Now, if you want to argue buying local vs not, that's a huge difference, but organic vs non-organic just isn't.

We cant possibly believe that, even in the home garde, if the product is dusted with pesticides that they are not going to work their way into the product.

a reply to: Logarock


Not sure how that applies to anything, since both organic and non-organic both use pesticides.

You attempted to claim that organic is not better for the environment, citing isolated research on single topics in agriculture, such as organic versus synthetic pesticides. I understand that organic chemicals can be harmful too.

However, organic food and agriculture, on average, focuses on more sustainable practices, including using proper and not excessive amounts of pesticides and water. Trust me, go study and look up how much water, fertilizers, and pesticides conventional farms use. The most conservative agricultural scientists will tell you that they are using WAY too much of all of those. It's discussed all of the time. And then the run-off causes huge problems downstream.

Now, I will grant that if conventional farms all switched to sustainable practices and levels of use, then this argument might disappear.

But then organic products at the store would still be healthier, because non-organic products on average again have way more preservatives, additives, food coloring, etc. They are way more processed. Go to a store right now. Look at the labels. It's inarguable.

originally posted by: Pimpish
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

When did I state agriculture run off isn't harming the ecosystem? Please point that out for me, as I don't recall saying that or even implying that.

What I did say, however, is that the organic pesticides are not necessarily any better for the ecosystem than the synthetic stuff. Feel free to believe whatever you want. Take the studies or don't, it's obviously your choice and it's your money. If you want to waste it on organic food so you feel like you're harming the environment less than the rest of us, feel free. It doesn't have to be true for you to believe it, and the feeling you get is real so there you go.

Now, if you want to argue buying local vs not, that's a huge difference, but organic vs non-organic just isn't.

originally posted by: Char-Lee
a reply to: jonnywhite

Text

7 Reasons Vegetarians Live Longer

time.com...

www.medicalnewstoday.com...

Study links vegetarian diets and longevity

www.washingtonpost.com... .html

There was once a Vegetarian that had never smoked, drank, nor was he promiscuous. He also exercised daily didn't drink caffeine or eat many sweets.

He was the picture of health all the way up to the day he killed himself.

a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

Yes, organic farming methods are more efficient as far as how much water, energy, etc they use. They use MORE pesticides than non-organic however, and the yield is less making the more efficient use of resources somewhat of a push. I'm not going to bother linking any of the studies on that and I'm just going to go ahead and bow out of this now because it's obvious your mind is set regardless of the facts put in front of your face.

Enjoy your religion.

''In the past, there was a strong belief that fruits and vegetables were strongly protective against cancer," Boffetta says. "In the last 10 or 15 years there have been a number of studies that did not confirm this relationship."

Except our fruits and vegetables aren't like they used to be, for other reasons. They've been bred to be sweeter and less bitter. Turns out that the 'bitter' flavor is B17, or amygdalin, or the infamous Laetrile that contains a cyanide molecule that is toxic to cancer cells and harmless to healthy cells.

We've been engineering our cancer epidemic in oh, so many ways.

And I would again like to point anyone who is interested in either their own fresh food, or a possible career/money making idea, to look into aquaponics. You don't need lots of land or good dirt, don't need any dirt at all. A small backyard, your school or church's backyard, even an abandoned parking lot, can grow enough food to provide a good living for a family on just hours a day. There's a ton of reading on the internet and videos on YT about it.

originally posted by: Pimpish
a reply to: Logarock


Not sure how that applies to anything, since both organic and non-organic both use pesticides.

Well unless you grow your own and don't use them. I use natural fertilizers but as far as insects and fungus those plants are on their own. I have used hybrid that are anti virus and fungus and they worked well.

I suppose I am not talking about store or market bought food that is tagged "organic".

originally posted by: Grimpachi

originally posted by: Char-Lee
a reply to: jonnywhite

Text

7 Reasons Vegetarians Live Longer

time.com...

www.medicalnewstoday.com...

Study links vegetarian diets and longevity

www.washingtonpost.com... .html

There was once a Vegetarian that had never smoked, drank, nor was he promiscuous. He also exercised daily didn't drink caffeine or eat many sweets.

He was the picture of health all the way up to the day he killed himself.

Cute

Thank you for sharing this positively informative revelation.

It seems obvious that something grown in the soil without chemical/genetic altering would have higher antioxidant value and lower toxin content.

Thank you science for being smart!!



LOVE

Please cite a study showing that on average, organic uses more pesticides. I would be glad to see it.

However, you have not addressed my second point, that factually store bought organic foods, especially processed goods, have way less additives, preservatives, etc. That is undeniable.

originally posted by: Pimpish
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

Yes, organic farming methods are more efficient as far as how much water, energy, etc they use. They use MORE pesticides than non-organic however, and the yield is less making the more efficient use of resources somewhat of a push. I'm not going to bother linking any of the studies on that and I'm just going to go ahead and bow out of this now because it's obvious your mind is set regardless of the facts put in front of your face.

Enjoy your religion.

originally posted by: Dapaga
wish I could afford organic

Generally speaking organic food is only $0.50 - $1 more than conventionally grown crops. But you get what you pay for.

Also if you have an Aldi near you, they have a lot of Organic products at below the cost of conventionally grown crops that other stores charge for.

www.aldi.us...

If you do not have an Aldi, Walmart will be carrying Organic foods at the same cost as conventionally grown crops, due to a recent purchase of an Organic food company.

articles.chicagotribune.com...

Sounds like a Monsanto bed time children's story or book.

originally posted by: Char-Lee

originally posted by: Grimpachi

originally posted by: Char-Lee
a reply to: jonnywhite

Text

7 Reasons Vegetarians Live Longer

time.com...

www.medicalnewstoday.com...

Study links vegetarian diets and longevity

www.washingtonpost.com... .html

There was once a Vegetarian that had never smoked, drank, nor was he promiscuous. He also exercised daily didn't drink caffeine or eat many sweets.

He was the picture of health all the way up to the day he killed himself.

Cute

My third point, you just admitted that usually organic farms practice less water and energy intensity. That alone makes them much more environmentally sustainable, as I had pointed out to you earlier.

originally posted by: Pimpish
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

Yes, organic farming methods are more efficient as far as how much water, energy, etc they use. They use MORE pesticides than non-organic however, and the yield is less making the more efficient use of resources somewhat of a push. I'm not going to bother linking any of the studies on that and I'm just going to go ahead and bow out of this now because it's obvious your mind is set regardless of the facts put in front of your face.

Enjoy your religion.

originally posted by: Grimpachi


There was once a Vegetarian that had never smoked, drank, nor was he promiscuous. He also exercised daily didn't drink caffeine or eat many sweets.

He was the picture of health all the way up to the day he killed himself.

Nice story, but its just that, fiction.

And the story itself is flawed because it was just happened "once"

Not all vegetarians deny themselves of so called "bad" things for you. It's all about balance.

We are talking about the one thing you must do every day and have a choice over and that is the food you put in your body. So why risk being a gunnies pig to this experiment? Why do you think no country in the developed world imports our meat and crops?

It boggles the mind that people make excuses for corporations to take a natural product (food) that is perfect all on its own, and extract it for money while stripping it of its essential purpose (GMO) It's like Stockholm Syndrome for McDonald's and Monsanto.

originally posted by: brandiwine14
I wonder to myself sometime what fruits and vegetable would have been like hundreds of years ago before they ever started the gmo, pesticide and just downright ruination of our produce. Can you imagine how wonderful most would have been in taste but also the health benefits?

My mother said that food never tasted the same after WWII. I know the quality has decreased in my lifetime.

Mostly eat organic now a days - expensive but worth the cost - I think in the long run it's less expensive - nothing goes to waste - every bit gets eaten - and my health's pretty good.

Have to stop thinking short term and go to long term - in everything.

a reply to: purplemer

iPhone addon tests whether your food is organic or not...
mylapka.com...

originally posted by: knoledgeispower

Not everybody

A) has the space to grow food ((Yes you can grow some stuff in a small pot but if you have a family to feed, you need more than just a couple pots))

B) Has the green thumb to grow anything let alone food. I bought an aloe vera plant and I thought I knew everything about them because I watched how my Mom took care of her aloe plants but I ended up getting white mold on my plant & down into it's soil. I had no idea that plants could get moldy and all that medicine(aloe plant) had to be tossed in the garbage.

Maybe not, but you can certainly grow enough high-yielding foods to be able to heavily suppliment your family's foods with home-grown stuff. As for having a green thumb...it's not hard to find tips and tricks on the ol' interwebs that will enable someone to, at the very least, not kill the food he/she is trying to grow for the first time.