Dementia and contemplation of the Soul

a reply to: Akragon

Your asking me to produce a picture of the earths atmosphere? I won't even entertain that request. Based on your logic there are chemical compounds which make a soul or spirit. Please do fill me in...I am at a lack of knowledge on that topic.

Are they only visible with electron microscopes?

Like I said already...souls...spirits...they are faith based. And no real proof exists of their existence.

They are a nice idea...but let's not be ignorant here.

a reply to: andy06shake

So you too are a religious believer in the high faith of "science"? Quantum mechanics and the like at least exist in mathematical terms, at the very least. Does a soul exist via math? I would love to get my hands on that theorum. Speculate all you want. I will never change my position. I am sorry if I need to see to believe. Hell, I have even seen a UFO... And I'm still not quite sure I believe in aliens... Because I never saw them in the driver seat. I believe in UFO's though....because I saw it with my own eyes. Agree to disagree I suppose. We can all believe what we want.

a reply to: Sparkymedic

Akragon is asking for a picture of the wind. It requires a more metaphorical answer I imagine.

I think pictures of our aura and soul have been imaged using something called Kirlian photography. Don't hold me as to the validity all the same, but one has to remember "there are more things in heaven and earth Horatio than are dreamt of in your philosophy" Hamlet (1.5.167-8).

en.wikipedia.org...

"So you too are a religious believer in the high faith of "science"? Quantum mechanics and the like at least exist in mathematical terms, at the very least. Does a soul exist via math?"

I will simply say that in the grand scheme of things, I know that I know nothing.

I wonder if you are aware of the fact that observation at the quantum level can actually have a direct effect?

originally posted by: Sparkymedic
Based on your logic there are chemical compounds which make a soul or spirit.

Um .. no. Spirit isn't organic.

Take light for example. Light has no organic compound. Light is an integration of electromagnetic waves. And yet, it has an effect on the organic. Likewise the spirit has no organic compound and yet we know it exists because the effect of it's presence can be seen and felt.

Wind can't be photographed, but it's effects can. That's how we know it exists. Scientists do this all the time. They estimate the existence of planets and black holes and so on based on the movements of planets that we know about. They can surmise that there is another astral body in a certain place based on the actions of the other astral bodies.

.but let's not be ignorant here.

Akragon is FAR from ignorant.

originally posted by: andy06shake
I think pictures of our aura and soul have been imaged using something called Kirlian imaging.

I had my aura picture taken. The film picks up on light waves that the human eye can't see. I'll see if I can hunt it down and post it here.

a reply to: FlyersFan

What distinguishes it as aura as opposed to over or under exposure of film? Imagination? Does it work with digital cameras?

Of course spirit isn't organic. And yes light does have an effect on the physical. But how do you again differentiate between imagination and reality? Or is the spirit realm even a part of tangable reality? And if it isn't...there is obviously no proof towards its existence. Again...I agree to disagree with the proponents of souls and spirits. Believe whatever makes you warm and cozy.

a reply to: Sparkymedic

this isn't my picture, I'm still looking for mine
But mine looks like it.

Your reply reminds me of the 'scientists' and 'physicians' of the dark ages. They thought germs were hokum because they couldn't see the actual germ. Even though the effects were right in front of them, they said germs didn't exist. It wasn't until much later that we had the technology to be able to see germs. But the germs were there the whole time, seen or not.

Believe whatever makes you warm and cozy.
Backatchya.

a reply to: FlyersFan

Fair enough. Mind explaining how this works? From all I can tell its a filter on a camera. Or perhaps even Photoshop.

I don't doubt people have "energies" about them. Sour people suck to be around. Up beat people are obviously a little more enjoyable... Depending on your preference obviously. But I don't know what the pictures prove. Other than Photoshop works. Germs were not viewed through photos...they were viewed through magnification...live. No production to produce results...unlike these pics.

I think what can be determined in the here and now is that much of what makes a person's personality is determined by the body. E.g. If a person gets sick or does not feel well, he may act different from when he is not, like being cranky or grumpy. I also notice that people from the same family can share particular personality traits, as if genetics can determine some aspects of personality.

The environment in which we were brought up - our parents, the people we met and the friends we made, the experiences we had - all shape who we are.

So we must admit - at least in large part - that who we are is determined by these things.

And if a person loses his memories.. is there even a person left?
---

On the other hand - if you observe children at a young age, even twins that supposedly share the same genes, we see that they already have really diverse and unique personalities, not always like their parents.

So you have to wonder where those came from.

---

If there is consciousness after death, does that consciousness have memories of its past experience (which detrermines its sense of 'being' or 'personality'? How could it, when we observe that memories can be lost as they are still living?

a reply to: Akragon

We are multidensional beings trapped in a body of flesh. The body is the interface we use to experience this dimension. The interface can break down such as in neurons not firing correctly and cause us to loose control. Likewise, there are many cases of people in state of no brain actvity at all and yet had experiences in another realm.

There is much we do not know.

How would you explain Electromagnetic Radiation to a commoner in the 15th century where no electricity is utilized and geiger counters do not exist?

a reply to: jacobe001

originally posted by: jacobe001
a reply to: Akragon

We are multidensional beings trapped in a body of flesh. The body is the interface we use to experience this dimension. The interface can break down such as in neurons not firing correctly and cause us to loose control. Likewise, there are many cases of people in state of no brain activity at all and yet had experiences in another realm.

That's an interesting concept.

I had this same discussion with a friend and he mentioned something similar.

He said the spirit is non-local and exists in another dimension.

It interfaces with the body and influences, or takes control of it. He said when the body breaks down with old age, it cannot interface with it any longer.

---

So where did this idea originate for you?

---

So some questions I had were:

Do all beings require a spirit to animate it?

What happens when millions of bee's or ants are born? Likewise millions of people? Does each one require a spirit to animate it? Where do all those millions and billions of spirits come from? What were they doing prior to dwelling in a being?

The point I was trying to make (and I'm preeeetty sure you all actually understood me ) is that the burden of proof rests upon the person making the claim. Nothing to to with seeing is believing or any of that. You say something called a soul exists, I'm asking you to provide evidence substantiating such a claim.

I said "pics or it didn't happen 'cos, you know, I was being ATSy.

originally posted by: nOraKat
I have experienced it with my own eyes.

A person's personality can dissolve as they get dementia.

I just watched a documentary on it.

Having been lively people previously - after dementia sets in, some of these people wander around aimlessly, walking out of the house, getting lost, and sometimes becoming bedridden, losing the ability for conversation. Sometimes they will forget their name or where they come from.

---

So I was thinking, here was a person with a particular personality and character, and after getting dementia became very different from the person he was previously. His entire personality, along with his memories was determined by the structure of his brain.

So if personality is determined by the physical structure of the brain, what is left for the soul to determine?

For many and various reasons the soul/astral body cant connect with the body anymore, its exactly the same as when a computer plays up. Sometimes things work and sometimes they don't. To an observer it seems that what was once organised has become haywire. I had a friend that had an accident on a horse and suffered brain damage. During the first few weeks they thought she was a vegetable, but when she recovered she said her thinking during that time was just the same as it always was, and couldn't understand why people couldn't understand her.

The body with it's neural connections is requiered to function in 4D space-time - it's the vessel. I believe we all lose our earthly abilities some amount of time before we die. Sometimes it's just tragically prolonged. What's left? Who knows, people have been born with memories from another lifetime for example. Computers can transfer data between machines. What says information couldn't be transferred from gray matter to another cosmic storage? Non local phenomena..

originally posted by: chuckmorris
The body with it's neural connections is requiered to function in 4D space-time - it's the vessel. I believe we all lose our earthly abilities some amount of time before we die. Sometimes it's just tragically prolonged. What's left? Who knows, people have been born with memories from another lifetime for example. Computers can transfer data between machines. What says information couldn't be transferred from gray matter to another cosmic storage? Non local phenomena..

I agree when you think of the amount of data stored in an average lifetime, it must be many terabytes. For the human body to store that amount of data, it would have to concentrate purely on storage and not have a life to record. Plus the fact that many reincarnation stories hold up under scrutiny, where does the new body get the past life memories ? Cosmic storage sounds good, and in a place that cant be hacked.

originally posted by: nOraKat
a reply to: jacobe001


That's an interesting concept.

I had this same discussion with a friend and he mentioned something similar.

He said the spirit is non-local and exists in another dimension.

It interfaces with the body and influences, or takes control of it. He said when the body breaks down with old age, it cannot interface with it any longer.

---

So where did this idea originate for you?

---

So some questions I had were:

Do all beings require a spirit to animate it?

What happens when millions of bee's or ants are born? Likewise millions of people? Does each one require a spirit to animate it? Where do all those millions and billions of spirits come from? What were they doing prior to dwelling in a being?

For me, it all started with exploring and experiencing Astral Projection when I was younger coupled with reading a great variety of books on Astral Projection, Buddhism and Planes of existence and so on to understand what was happening.

Many of the experiences I had happened first then I read into the subject matter which confirmed what I experienced.

From what I have read, many animals have group souls whereas humans have individual souls but all return to a greater soul.

I have wondered, with so many millions of humans, much less animals that have come and gone, where is all the space for them in the afterlife. Then I thought, the physical universe much less a multidimensional universe is unfathomable to contemplate in our finite minds much less the small speck will currently live on.

William Buhlman in Adventures Beyond the Body devoted a few chapters in his book about the multidimensional nature of the universe and did quite a good job at it using existing scientific theories to explain it.

a reply to: nOraKat

From my experience with meditation I believe the spirit can observe and think without the brain. The brain magnifies thought processes and experience with the material world by connecting our self with the five senses. So when our bodies fail, the spirit will observe itself handcuffed to a bed-ridden body with a malfunctioning brain, similar I imagine to experiencing a bad dream.

Our soul witnesses its surroundings, it has will and thought, but its at a more subtle level.

a reply to: FlyersFan

Your reply reminds me of the 'scientists' and 'physicians' of the dark ages. They thought germs were hokum because they couldn't see the actual germ. Even though the effects were right in front of them, they said germs didn't exist. It wasn't until much later that we had the technology to be able to see germs. But the germs were there the whole time, seen or not.

I just have to ask who discovered germs and what field of study or practice were they in?

Seems like you are saying it was neither scientists nor physicians could it be possible such discoveries are attributed to priests/holly men?

a reply to: glend

The state of science at the moment gives us a good insight into what the human body is, not only a bio machine, run by an electrical system. But also a vast memory storage system. That amplifies mental effort,with most of the functions being automatic. It takes a few years to learn how to animate it according to our will, we get a few years to reproduce one, and then like any machine it wears down and out. But the thing that animates it dose not. If science came up with a good idea that reproduced the DNA without corrupted codes getting into the strands. The body would still stop at some time due to something or other. It would have to because the planet wouldn't have the room to sustain the population.
The fact that it is run remotely, to my mind cant be dismissed, nor can the thought of reality as experienced via the senses, being electro magnetic codes that are interpreted as a reality, because that is what occurs. The great question is who's reality and why.
If I listen to a story on the radio, all I am getting is auditory code input, but almost without effort, the story takes on another dimension of a vision type video, where the characters take on a life of their own, which is almost like its all going on in a different dimension. I often wonder if a few people listened to the same story, and those people had to describe the houses and characters would they describe the same things with regards to a photo fit? providing of course the narrator left a few things hanging. if they would then its fairly good evidence that they were seeing the same things with a consciousness that was in some way linked. All this from a sound wave coming from a speaker? the whole lot has to be paranormal..