Germany Demands U.S. Honesty on Spying After Expulsion of CIA Chief of Station

Germany is demanding honesty from the US? They have a better chance of getting their gold back.

Germany is closer commercially and politically with both Russia and Iran than are most other Western countries. That being the case, it’s critical to the U.S. that these relationships be understood, and that requires intelligence. It would be irresponsible of the U.S. not to eavesdrop on German officials and their communications.

The German officials are being hypocrites here. This is nothing new, and they know it. Allies have been spying on allies for as long as humans have been on the planet. And no modern industrialized nation is so naive as to think otherwise. So please, Angela, spare me. It’s obvious that Chancellor Merkel & Co have realized there’s easy political ground to be gained by playing the poor, innocent victim of that evil, monsterous spy machine to the west.

It’s kinda funny in a way. It always struck me how much time and effort must have gone into stealing the sheer volume of information that Fast Eddie (Snowden) got away with. It still puzzles me. Anyway, for all the tons of information, I doubt it had any significant impact on governments around the world. It wasn’t like a revelation or a newsflash, at least not to any high level government officials. Snowden’s disclosures did, however, provide politicians with a tool to score political points with their uninformed supporters. It makes it easy now for them to climb up onto their righteous high horse and preach the evils of the West. Their people then gobble it up, and all is right with the world. Angela Merkel has become really good at it. Aside from adding this weapon to the geopolitical toolbox, though, I can’t think of anything else useful coming from Ed Snowden’s efforts.

Mr. Snowden, in the unlikely event you’re reading this, what I’d like to say to you is this:
“I hope you’re getting comfy in your new digs. Perhaps after considerable counseling and a program of intense electro-shock therapy, you’ll become a satisfactory comrade, and possibly even be useful for something. You may be too young for this, but I’m about to play an old Beatles song and want to dedicate it to you. Hope you like it. It’s called ‘Back in the U.S.S.R.’. Give my best to Vlad and the Boys. Ciao...”

Sorry, I got carried away with the Snowden thing. I believe this is all kinda related, though, because of the damage done to many of our international relationships. The thing I question about Merkel’s motives here is why she made the spying thing a public issue; was it a) to score political points, or b) is it possible that she’s actually so naive as to believe that nations can be “trusting friends” and conduct business under the buddy/honor system? Surely it’s a)...

Like one of the other posters here implied, I think certain other countries are simply jealous/envious over the fact that our spy machine is better than theirs. You can’t tell me that other nations wouldn’t be in it just as deep as we are if only they had the same level of sophistication as our intelligence services.

As our technology advances, so does our ability to spy on each other. And spy we will. I don’t know that it’s even possible to buck this trend. Government and corporate intrusion into our lives and affairs is going to continue to increase with time, and I’m not sure there’s a thing we can do about it. I’m afraid the train’s left the station, and it ain’t turnin’ back...

a reply to: CloudsTasteMetallic

Does anyone know if the additional information coming out of Germany that the spy was also caught making a deal with Russian intelligence officials is true?

originally posted by: seeker1963
I don't care if you aren't an American citizen and criticize my government for it's actions, I am just calling you out for supporting a certain administration, and having the balls to STILL criticize my countries actions! Explain!

Surely. Just because I am of the centre-left persuasion does not mean that I blindly agree with everything that those of the centre-left do. Unlike some who chose a 'side' and let the wad do their thinking for them.

Yes I am Canadian, and I've probably covered more of the U.S. than the vast majority of Americans. I'm certainly entitled to my opinion. And in my opinion, the States should have some respect for their friends and allies if it wants to retain them.

a reply to: netbound

It would be irresponsible of the U.S. not to eavesdrop on German officials and their communications.

The German officials are being hypocrites here. This is nothing new, and they know it.

Irresponsible not to spy ???

huh...oki doki....

The point here in all this mess is...The US got caught...with their pants down.

Germany didn't. That's the whole point. You can get away with all sorts of evil in todays world...right until the point you get caught red handed.


What I find rather disturbing here is the US attitude...no "remorse"...no "ups sorry about that"...but the righteus attitude...as if it's their God given right to intrude on foreign soil...

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: CloudsTasteMetallic

Does anyone know if the additional information coming out of Germany that the spy was also caught making a deal with Russian intelligence officials is true?

Link? I've heard nothing of the sort.

Hopefully many other nations will take a stand. a reply to: CloudsTasteMetallic

originally posted by: kkrattiger
Hopefully many other nations will take a stand. a reply to: CloudsTasteMetallic

The only nation I'm interested in seeing take a stand is that of our own.

Oh, look, the new episode of "Crap Reality Show" is on tonight. Nevermind. /sarcasm

What I find rather disturbing here is the US attitude...no "remorse"...no "ups sorry about that"...but the righteus attitude...as if it's their God given right to intrude on foreign soil...

I agree! It's ridiculous.
Embarassing to boot. OBAMA AND OTHER TOP OFFICIALS MUST LEARN TO EAT CROW. FIrst thing in line is that good god, they should be remorseful! Then apologize! I have such a low opinion of Obama, it's verging on bitterness!
Maybe intelligence agencies employees can ensure their job security in an era of increased automation by getting other countries agencies to agree that spying is normal regardless of type of relationship.

a reply to: CloudsTasteMetallic

German spy who sold secrets to US tried to make deal with Russians -
Sunday 06 July 2014

The German intelligence "double agent" who allegedly sold hundreds of top secret documents to the Americans was caught by his own country's counter espionage agents while trying to broker an additional spying deal with the Russian secret services, according to intelligence sources in Berlin.

However, the double agent appeared to have been motivated less by ideology than hard cash. German sources revealed yesterday that his activities were only noticed after he tried to widen his information supply portfolio to include the Russians. Three weeks ago BND counter-espionage agents picked up an email that had been sent to the Russian embassy. Like the email to the American embassy, it was said to have offered the possibility of co-operation. "The counter-espionage agents were stunned when they discovered that the source of the email was the BND," reported the German magazine Der Spiegel.

The 2 sections above talk about the Russian connection and it looks like the German intelligence services are the ones who disclosed the Russia contact.

Click link for remainder of article.

a reply to: Xcathdra

Hooooo boy... So the plot thickens. Unfortunately, I cannot add anything as to the veracity of these claims.

originally posted by: CloudsTasteMetallic
a reply to: Xcathdra

Hooooo boy... So the plot thickens. Unfortunately, I cannot add anything as to the veracity of these claims.

That makes 2 of us...

There is the information about a second spy being arrested although I don't know if its linked or not. If the above info is accurate then I am curious as to when we will see the dominos pushed to fall.

I think these 2 might be the tip of the iceberg.

a reply to: netbound

Anyway, for all the tons of information, I doubt it had any significant impact on governments around the world. It wasn’t like a revelation or a newsflash, at least not to any high level government officials.

Aside from adding this weapon to the geopolitical toolbox, though, I can’t think of anything else useful coming from Ed Snowden’s efforts.

I believe this is all kinda related, though, because of the damage done to many of our international relationships. The thing I question about Merkel’s motives here is why she made the spying thing a public issue; was it a) to score political points, or b) is it possible that she’s actually so naive as to believe that nations can be “trusting friends” and conduct business under the buddy/honor system? Surely it’s a)..

Which is it? Snowden's acquiring huge amount of documents was a waste of time on his part, as they did no good in the world and top officials in govts didnt learn anything they didnt already know; OR there was damage to international relationships, in revelation of leaked material, showing one way the Snowden document-cache did impact the world.
The beginning of your post has some interesting points, I'd not thought of things like thst before. But your opinion got squishy there in the middle. But I can see how the first part may be!

a reply to: Xcathdra

If its anything truly juicy, I doubt that we'll find out within a 50-year declassification window . Great find though, I came across this story by accident.

all these unraveling of US intelligence blunders must be from the contribution of Snowden the hero of free world.. im glad snowden is safe now in russia.. it is strange that a man is safer in russia than in USA.. the world has flipped.. the bad guy nowadays is USA..

Snowden should get a medal from germany for exposing these US shenanigans

a reply to: milomilo

Had Snowden been a citizen of Russia and leaked classified Russian files he would have been executed, regardless of what country he is located in. If you don't believe me ask Alexander Litvinenko.

Can we move beyond the make believe of Russia being nice when it comes to espionage?

Secondly, it was not Snowdens actions that resulted in this being exposed. The German intelligence officer tried to set up a deal with Russian intelligence and was caught by German intelligence. While investigating that breach they come upon the American contact.

Snowden's crimes in the US would result in prison time and not a death penalty.

it is sad to see americans believed all the lies about snowden that was practically SOP from US Intelligence to destroy Snowden's persona. I guess this can be called a massive nation-wide stockholm syndrome.

where is the rage of the supposedly liberty loving america seeing their freedom was betrayed by their very own goverment apparatus ? Didnt these americans knew that this will lead into Totalitarian State where everything will be monitored and judged and punished like a worse version of George Orwell's 1984 ???

I rest my case

LOL @ demanding truth from USA

Nice try Germany...

It is hard to tell what these countries can really do though. During the first set of revelations that showed that the NSA was doing some ridiculous spying on Brazil. the president Dilma Roussef was outraged, and two years later the country seemed to have moved on. The passiveness is bizarre. They must truly feel that they are powerless in these situations..

Just international "sheep" I guess.

originally posted by: avenged10fold
LOL @ demanding truth from USA

Nice try Germany...

even more funny, the German ministers practically on the floor apologizing for their kicking of CIA station guy , while the US senators all haughty and saying this is no big deal..

since when did a perpetrator of a crime can say it is not a big deal, while the victim of the crime just prostating himself on the floor apologizing for being the victim ?: