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Russia threatens Ukraine after shell crosses border

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posted on Jul, 17 2014 @ 02:36 AM
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a reply to: victor7





Why is EU putting sanctions on Russia and why not on Saudi Arabia and Qatar and UAE. These three nations are also suspected of creating problems in Syria which has resulted in more than 200,000 killed and half million injured.


Had they tried to annex any part of Syria they probably would?

Also notice the key word here...suspected.

Russia isn't suspected of doing things in Ukraine they have been proven to be the instigators and backers of what has happened in Ukraine.




posted on Jul, 17 2014 @ 03:33 AM
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a reply to: kwakakev

Russia should not just face upto these sanctions and hope the aggressors will change their tone. Russia should answer back. Here is one example:

Russia has upto 10,000-15,000 tanks in inventory that are supposed to be dismantled. There are 2000 T-64s alone. Instead of dismantling them, Russia should give these to countries like North Korea, Iran, Syria for even dirt cheap at $100K a piece or some barter of commodity etc.

Such moves will have Western blocs unsettled as 1000s of tanks even old grade or old models with upgrades.............do pack very severe punch. Same logic with other weapons systems that might find lots of value in allied nations.

To be strong is good, but to have strong friends in addition is a bonus !!



posted on Jul, 17 2014 @ 04:33 AM
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originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: Vovin

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: Vovin

Completely agree. This is evidenced by the fact that the US got every last oil contract in Iraq, and we made absolutely sure China got none. Of course if China got more than we did that would sort of kill your theory, so good thing it did not happen.


Not at all. Controlling resources is more important than taking the resources.

And the US neither took nor has control of the resources. So I guess again your point is rendered meaningless.


Suuuuure it is. I guess all your soldiers and all those other people died for nothing then. That makes your country's foreign policy appear even more pathetic than what I was willing to give it credit for.

If Iraq and Afghanistan was not about oil and mineral control, then please illuminate us mere paupers of knowledge as to the real gains envisioned by the strategists who carried out the invasions?

Please don't tell me it was to stop terrorists.
edit on 17-7-2014 by Vovin because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 17 2014 @ 07:01 AM
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originally posted by: victor7
One major question !!

Why is EU putting sanctions on Russia and why not on Saudi Arabia and Qatar and UAE. These three nations are also suspected of creating problems in Syria which has resulted in more than 200,000 killed and half million injured.



Because Russia is still supplying the pro-Russian groups in Ukraine. Russia has also sent troops back to the border with Ukraine.

Its looking more likely that the Ukrainian plane that was shot down inside Ukraine was shot down by a Russian aircraft in Russian airspace.

Contrary to the wishful thinking of some this has nothing to do with BRICs.



posted on Jul, 17 2014 @ 12:24 PM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

extremely absurd logic !



posted on Jul, 17 2014 @ 04:30 PM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: victor7
One major question !!

Why is EU putting sanctions on Russia and why not on Saudi Arabia and Qatar and UAE. These three nations are also suspected of creating problems in Syria which has resulted in more than 200,000 killed and half million injured.



Because Russia is still supplying the pro-Russian groups in Ukraine. Russia has also sent troops back to the border with Ukraine.

Its looking more likely that the Ukrainian plane that was shot down inside Ukraine was shot down by a Russian aircraft in Russian airspace.

Contrary to the wishful thinking of some this has nothing to do with BRICs.


Of course you have no actual proof. "It's looking more likely that" is not anything close to convincing. 280 people just died, you can't just throw the blame around without solid evidence.



posted on Jul, 17 2014 @ 04:48 PM
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originally posted by: Vovin

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: victor7
One major question !!

Why is EU putting sanctions on Russia and why not on Saudi Arabia and Qatar and UAE. These three nations are also suspected of creating problems in Syria which has resulted in more than 200,000 killed and half million injured.



Because Russia is still supplying the pro-Russian groups in Ukraine. Russia has also sent troops back to the border with Ukraine.

Its looking more likely that the Ukrainian plane that was shot down inside Ukraine was shot down by a Russian aircraft in Russian airspace.

Contrary to the wishful thinking of some this has nothing to do with BRICs.


Of course you have no actual proof. "It's looking more likely that" is not anything close to convincing. 280 people just died, you can't just throw the blame around without solid evidence.


Putin is right, even if it was shot down by the separatists, it was fault of Kiev to conduct attacks and break June 27 cease fire. If ceasefire was not broken, this incident would not have taken place. Separatists are rag-tag group of people and have little idea of knowing which plane belongs to whom.

Also, stupid airlines should stop flying the route which puts them within range of various SAMs in E. Ukraine.



posted on Jul, 17 2014 @ 04:49 PM
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You guys are so predictable.

Cant refute facts so you attack the poster.

Prove me wrong.



posted on Jul, 17 2014 @ 05:03 PM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra
You guys are so predictable.

Cant refute facts so you attack the poster.

Prove me wrong.


Prove you wrong when you've offered no proof for your theory. Not sure how that makes any sense, usually somebody needs evidence to make a claim otherwise it is fantasy.

You made the claim that Russia shot the plane down. You said that a Russian fighter jet shot the plane down over Ukraine.

YOU need to provide evidence of your claim. As far as I'm concerned, this is just another crazy rant by another fanatic American screaming for more war against another enemy of the day.



posted on Jul, 17 2014 @ 08:32 PM
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a reply to: Vovin

Ukraine's forces and Kiev Junta is responsible for this incident. Plane was shot down at 33,000 feet. Separatists have only MANPADs which can reach 15,000 at most.

Reportedly, they got hold of a system called BUK-M1 which can shoot down planes at upto 72,000 feet. It was the fault of Kiev forces that they left this system to be captured. There was a radio rant for last few days that BUK-M1 has been captured and now it showed up in this incident.

One can also speculate that this was a set up to bad name to the separatists.

Why did "bankrupt" Kiev break the cease fire? Who's funds are they using to play war here? IMF or John McCain's tomato ketchup sales??



posted on Jul, 17 2014 @ 08:41 PM
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a reply to: victor7

LOL

You have a very distorted view of what responsibility is.

The Pro Russians decided to brag about capturing that item the day before. They were so happy about it the idiots decided to pose with the captured items and post the photos to the Donetsk twitter account. 2 Phone calls, 1 from a pro russian commander to a pro russian terrorist onscene at the site of the crash and a second phone call from a pro russian leader to russian military intelligence discussing the shoot down.

There is no way Russia / Pro Russian rebels are going to spin / obfuscate / lie their way out of this one.

For Russia's sake there involvement better be minor. If not I see the EU going balls to the walls on sanctions on Russia.


As for your confusion on the cease fire. Kiev didn't break it.. They cant break something the Russians/Pro Russians never complied with from the start.


Is there any particular reason your derailing this thread? Is the thread on the shoot down topic to crowded for you guys to post your propaganda without it being challenged?

How about you take that topic to the appropriate forum so we can keep this one clean.
edit on 17-7-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 17 2014 @ 08:47 PM
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a reply to: Vovin

I don't have to offer proof... A tactic you guys use all the time and recently stated as much when I asked for a source for a lie that was told.

Since you guys refuse to do it, you get the same in return.



posted on Jul, 17 2014 @ 09:13 PM
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You have a very distorted view of what responsibility is.
a reply to: Xcathdra

Responsibility is when you are running your rearend away from battlefield then you atleast disable if not destroy the weapons left behind.




As for your confusion on the cease fire. Kiev didn't break it.. They cant break something the Russians/Pro Russians never complied with from the start.


Another "very irritating" absurd logic. Total denial of facts.




If not I see the EU going balls to the walls on sanctions on Russia.


It's the US that has "balls to the walls" on EU, but still DC cannot get them to put real sanctions in play. Why should they? let US bust its balls hitting the walls, the EU economy does not want to suffer from playing the hardball.

psst!! what if separatists had sold the Buk system to Al-Queda for $20M or so ??

then the Balls would have really gotten Mauled !!

edit on 17-7-2014 by victor7 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 17 2014 @ 09:20 PM
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a reply to: victor7

lol ok



posted on Jul, 18 2014 @ 04:31 AM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: Vovin

I don't have to offer proof... A tactic you guys use all the time and recently stated as much when I asked for a source for a lie that was told.

Since you guys refuse to do it, you get the same in return.


Then nobody takes you seriously.

Your proof is a horribly faked "recording". First you claimed a Russian fighter shot it down, now you claim it was a Buk-M1.

Guess which force in Donetsk has Buk-M1s in operational status, genius? Ukrainian Army? ding ding ding we have a winner!!!

Funny how you can make so many contradictory accusations when the real evidence is not even available to the world yet- if it was, it wouldn't be this "he said she said" crap. It would be an objective and decisive answer.

Hence why I'm not making claims yet. For all I know a meteorite hit the plane.
edit on 18-7-2014 by Vovin because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 18 2014 @ 08:13 PM
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stratrisks.com...
Ukraine, Georgia and Moldova to obtain non-NATO ally status, increase in transfer of military assets

Full article below:

Baku – APA. The U.S. Congress passed in two readings a Russian aggression prevention bill that provides major non-NATO ally status for Ukraine, Georgia, and Moldova (during the period in which each of such countries meets specified criteria) for purposes of the transfer or possible transfer of defense articles or defense services. The bill was submitted to the competent commission for being prepared for the final reading, APA reports, quoting the official website of the U.S. Congress.

The bill directs President Barack Obama to increase U.S. Armed Forces interactions with the armed forces of Ukraine, Georgia, Moldova, Azerbaijan, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Kosovo, Macedonia, Montenegro, and Serbia; and U.S and NATO security assistance to such states. Armenia is not included in the list.

The bill also amends the Natural Gas Act to apply the expedited application and approval process for natural gas exports to World Trade Organization members, and urges the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID), the Trade and Development Agency, the Overseas Private Investment Corporation (OPIC), the World Bank Group, and the European Bank for Reconstruction to promote assistance to Ukraine, Georgia, and Moldova in order to exploit natural gas and oil reserves and to develop alternative energy sources.

The document prohibits any federal department or agency from taking any action that recognizes Russian Federation sovereignty over Crimea or otherwise endorses the Russian Federation’s illegal annexation of Crimea, and directs the Secretary of State to strengthen democratic institutions, the independent media, and political and civil society organizations in countries of the former Soviet Union; and increase educational and cultural exchanges with countries of the former Soviet Union.

My Views: It seems US which is main force in NATO wants a war with Russia. This very aggressive posturing by DC on Moscow can result in horrendous WW3 with thermonuclear consequences. Ukraine in NATO means nuke missiles only 10 minutes from Moscow plus ability to kill Russian missiles while they are in the boost phase.

Kremlin cannot allow this. WW3 seems to the most likely outcome. Sad but true, there are no other options on table for Russia, unless it develops some other technology to negate this development.
edit on 18-7-2014 by victor7 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 19 2014 @ 01:21 AM
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originally posted by: victor7
stratrisks.com...
Ukraine, Georgia and Moldova to obtain non-NATO ally status, increase in transfer of military assets

Full article below:

Baku – APA. The U.S. Congress passed in two readings a Russian aggression prevention bill that provides major non-NATO ally status for Ukraine, Georgia, and Moldova (during the period in which each of such countries meets specified criteria) for purposes of the transfer or possible transfer of defense articles or defense services. The bill was submitted to the competent commission for being prepared for the final reading, APA reports, quoting the official website of the U.S. Congress.

The bill directs President Barack Obama to increase U.S. Armed Forces interactions with the armed forces of Ukraine, Georgia, Moldova, Azerbaijan, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Kosovo, Macedonia, Montenegro, and Serbia; and U.S and NATO security assistance to such states. Armenia is not included in the list.

The bill also amends the Natural Gas Act to apply the expedited application and approval process for natural gas exports to World Trade Organization members, and urges the U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID), the Trade and Development Agency, the Overseas Private Investment Corporation (OPIC), the World Bank Group, and the European Bank for Reconstruction to promote assistance to Ukraine, Georgia, and Moldova in order to exploit natural gas and oil reserves and to develop alternative energy sources.

The document prohibits any federal department or agency from taking any action that recognizes Russian Federation sovereignty over Crimea or otherwise endorses the Russian Federation’s illegal annexation of Crimea, and directs the Secretary of State to strengthen democratic institutions, the independent media, and political and civil society organizations in countries of the former Soviet Union; and increase educational and cultural exchanges with countries of the former Soviet Union.

My Views: It seems US which is main force in NATO wants a war with Russia. This very aggressive posturing by DC on Moscow can result in horrendous WW3 with thermonuclear consequences. Ukraine in NATO means nuke missiles only 10 minutes from Moscow plus ability to kill Russian missiles while they are in the boost phase.

Kremlin cannot allow this. WW3 seems to the most likely outcome. Sad but true, there are no other options on table for Russia, unless it develops some other technology to negate this development.


Yeah but those aggressive Russians, look how close they put their country to NATO countries! Russia has been expanding ever since the end of the Cold War! Dirty Russians, next thing you know they'll be invading us by putting troops on their side of the border, and sanctioning our economy and cutting off political ties. Before we know it Russia will encircle and contain NATO because Russia = terrorism, and if you're not with us you're with the terrorists.



posted on Jul, 19 2014 @ 11:44 AM
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a reply to: Vovin

The stage is reached when verbal complaining will NOT help anymore. Some new developments have to take place. Even one of the below three should work in the long run:

a) There has to be a DISCONNECT of view between American population and its government. I.E. Americans tell their government that they do not want this aggressive posturing and nose poking into the affairs of other countries.

b) Similar DISCONNECT between US Military and Government.

c) A DISCONNECT between European NATO nations and the US. In any event of war, it is the Europe which will take the most severe beating. Russia has to convey this to nations like Germany, France, UK, Italy etc. that there will be Total Total Total destruction of their countries, given they supported the evil aggressive designs of the US. These major NATO nations can convey that they are no longer interested in expanding NATO eastwards etc.

Immediate effect, Russia needs to change it's war doctrine and have the option of using the NUKES right away at the start of the war. There would be no wait for grim situation in certain battle theater to be overcome with tactical nukes. Russia would hold the right to use the strategic nukes right away. With this policy, Russia can tell the allies of the US, like Japan, South Korea, Europeans etc. that if they decide to join in the mess, then they will be immediately turned into ash and nothing else, even if it takes REPEATED strategic nuclear assaults on them.

Russians have been sleeping for too long after getting drunk. They are assuming too many things in a subjective manner. And that is why they have face upto events like Georgia 2008 and Ukraine 2014. Firmness in planning and implementation is the call of the day.
edit on 19-7-2014 by victor7 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 19 2014 @ 07:31 PM
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a reply to: victor7

The disconnect will come when the USA picks a war with another country that ends up thrashing them around on the battlefield; when the widows in the American homeland find themselves meeting other widows instead of just seeing them on TV. When every American personally feels the human cost of their government's actions, they will question why it has to be like this.

Why did it take an entire generation after WWI for the world to step into WWII? Because half of the people who survived WWI were widows, and the rest were alcoholic veterans.
edit on 19-7-2014 by Vovin because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 19 2014 @ 07:51 PM
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The disconnect will come when the USA picks a war with another country that ends up thrashing them around on the battlefield; when the widows in the American homeland find themselves meeting other widows instead of just seeing them on TV. When every American personally feels the human cost of their government's actions, they will question why it has to be like this.
a reply to: Vovin

You stole my thoughts here. Kick in the GUTS is what is needed for US to come to its senses. So far they have been toying with heavily sanctioned third world armies only.

Regarding widows, do not worry much. In US Army culture, as soon as the man is gone overseas, the wife starts to mess around, sometimes out of need for company and other times to earn extra money. Many a times there is a mutual consent between the couple to "mess around" while they are away to keep mind in balance. Weird culture !!

There have been Dateline type shows on tv regarding this culture in US military bases.



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