A hypothetical for the Freemasons.....

originally posted by: undo
you realize of course, that you've done things here in this country, that would be considered felonies in other countries (lol of course in other countries, women are worse then house furniture).

Huh? As long as I am not committing a felony in the United States that is a rather pointless argument.

i believe in the ability of people to change. i don't think that if you make a mistake, it's genetic and should be held against you for the rest of your life. i find such a concept incredibly inhumane.

You are free to start your own group and invite all the felons you want.

a reply to: November5

I would pray and talk to my dad in heaven to help

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

the point of bringing up the shawshank redemption is he was considered a felon and murderer his whole life, but he was innocent. he would have to wait his whole life just to be released, and by then, he still was considered guilty -- just rehabilitated. so masons would pass him up, as he was never exonerated.

originally posted by: undo
the point of bringing up the shawshank redemption is he was considered a felon and murderer his whole life, but he was innocent. he would have to wait his whole life just to be released, and by then, he still was considered guilty -- just rehabilitated. so masons would pass him up, as he was never exonerated.

If you want to focus on the very rare exception to the rule then be my guest. We are not opening the Fraternity to every felon on the odd chance that one of them is not a felon.

originally posted by: undo

i believe in the ability of people to change. i don't think that if you make a mistake, it's genetic and should be held against you for the rest of your life. i find such a concept incredibly inhumane.

I agree with you that people can change. And they can live an extremely happy, fulfilling and successful life outside of Freemasonry.

I bought a car from a Mason and agreed to pay it off over 60 months. No contract, nothing in writing - I took his word because he's a Mason. He knew I would pay him because I'm a Mason. If you have the slightest shadow of doubt about even one Brother's character, this system of trust collapses.

It's pretty easy - if you want to be a Mason, don't do crime. On the other hand, I can never get into a sorority even if I don't commit a crime...

a reply to: Saurus

TRESTLE is pronounced by the eavesdropping cowan as "Trust All!"...
The master plan and the master's plan...
Trial by fire (sulfur) is essential to the raising up of the initiate... so... he must learn to trust in the G.A.O.T.U. and all his servants...

originally posted by: Pinocchio

Trial by fire (sulfur) is essential to the raising up of the initiate...

Small technical detail - an initiate is never raised.

originally posted by: Saurus

originally posted by: Pinocchio

Trial by fire (sulfur) is essential to the raising up of the initiate...

Small technical detail - an initiate is never raised.

Details, details!

Fitz

a reply to: Fitzgibbon
Isn't the Devil in the details...oh wait...

a reply to: KSigMason

Got ya! Awesome man, thanks for stepping me through it, and sorry for taking so long to get it lol. Sometimes i'm slow on the draw, and sometimes i'm too fast on the draw. Gotta find that middle ground.

originally posted by: noonebutme

originally posted by: November5
a reply to: noonebutme
So to me, that's the "higher existence" or higher being - impartial, unbiased energy that we're all apart of and we all belong to.

That kind of flies in the face of "making good men better". That line(making good men better) excludes a lot of people, so, impartial and unbiased energy? You'd have to walk me through it.


a reply to: Saurus

It's no secret that most Lodges are ruled from the North, much to the dismay and frustration of many new incumbent Worshipful Masters...

The North? Like, where the 'God of War' presides? I can't say I entirely agree with your statement that there is only one supreme being. I personally know of 2, and the suggestion that there is more has been made to me.

As for the meaning of Christmas, I think you might have left out Saturnalia. I thought I remember hearing somewhere that Jesus was born in the summer? In any case Jesus:

And you can't have Saint Nick without having Krampus:


So, Saint Nick rewards 'good men'(making them better) and Krampus, well, you know.....:

originally posted by: Sump3
a reply to: November5

I would pray and talk to my dad in heaven to help

Has your 'Dad' ever told you where your 'Mom' is is?

originally posted by: KyoZero
I understand you are looking for the hypothetical

now...would I be listened to? I have no idea...but I sure would try
!

Maybe you'd be required to seek help from outside the agency? Right on tho, I follow your sentiment, and thanks for addressing the OP! If you ever finish that book, do let us know!


a reply to: undo

Hey man. Sorry, I need a bit more time to process your reply, but I will def. get it done!

a reply to: KSigMason

I just realized something. There certainly (according to your description) is a connection between your local Lodge and the Headquarters across the ocean. You just have to be 'tapped' into it. That says, there are Freemasons from the local and provincial levels inside the Order of St. Thomas of Acon, which has a relationship to the HQ Lodge. Is the average Mason aware of the behavioral expectation to get invited to join? What does that say about the Masons who aren't invited to join?

a reply to: November5
No worries, I belong to so many groups that I mix them up from time to time.

The North is a term used in Masonry to talk about darkness and as a joke often Past Masters sit there. Saurus was making a joke that Lodges are ran by Past Masters. Sometimes Past Masters think they are still in charge and try to run things from the sideline.

Ah Krampus, thank you Germans for your awesome children's stories. Sprechen Sie Deutsch?

a reply to: November5
There really isn't any connection between my Lodge and the headquarters of the Order of St. Thomas of Acon, other than me being a member and officer of both.

Behavioral expectation? Can you clarify this?

What does that say about the Masons who aren't invited to join?

Well, the way it works is that you don't know if you are nominated or not. The only time you find out about the nomination and invitation is if you are accepted and they contact you. This is done so you don't have your feelings hurt for being turned down.

originally posted by: KSigMason
a reply to: November5
No worries, I belong to so many groups that I mix them up from time to time.

The North is a term used in Masonry to talk about darkness and as a joke often Past Masters sit there. Saurus was making a joke that Lodges are ran by Past Masters. Sometimes Past Masters think they are still in charge and try to run things from the sideline.

Ah Krampus, thank you Germans for your awesome children's stories. Sprechen Sie Deutsch?

a reply to: November5
There really isn't any connection between my Lodge and the headquarters of the Order of St. Thomas of Acon, other than me being a member and officer of both.

Behavioral expectation? Can you clarify this?

What does that say about the Masons who aren't invited to join?

Well, the way it works is that you don't know if you are nominated or not. The only time you find out about the nomination and invitation is if you are accepted and they contact you. This is done so you don't have your feelings hurt for being turned down.

Behavioral expectation, sorry, i couldn't think of a better way to phrase that. What I meant was, are all Masons aware of what qualities are desirable for invitation into St. Thomas? Could you maybe comment on the your Lodge's relationship to 'the force'? Or, your own relationship to it? Meh, maybe I should start another thread, this one is derailed lol

a reply to: November5
Yes, and you can look at their website as well for membership requirements.

Could you maybe comment on the your Lodge's relationship to 'the force'? Or, your own relationship to it?

LOL...You could start a new thread on that.

originally posted by: November5

originally posted by: undo

originally posted by: November5
a reply to: undo

I tried it, but to no avail. I even tried here but it won't post, even tho this will. Weird. The Universe is trying to tell me something. Perhaps the content of my replies are unsuitable?

I was able to get the reply to Network through, but not yours. Very weird.

erm. i can't imagine why what you say about a subject would be outlawed by the universe, as you put it. you're the same as the rest of us--innocent due to lack of relevant information.

Let me try removing the content I think might be problematic, see if that helps:

originally posted by: undo
a reply to: network dude

i don't believe we burn in hell but yeah, i have had someone do that to me. i'm more of a....well let's put it this way, i think more along the lines of every human being is innocent, this due mainly to things like genetics, environment, education or lack thereof, and especially lack of comprehensive data pertinent to making the really big choices. in effect, we are almost completely clueless about the bigger mysteries, thru no fault of our own.

Yea, I would have to agree with that for sure. At least that is my current awareness of things. I would add, that those who 'know', without knowing what is going on, and maintain their position of ignorance, have none to blame but themselves for not being open to the information first, and critical of it once an understanding had been formed. Nicely put!

i just couldn't hold 2 completely different ideas in my head about the same subject at the same time, without it resolving into cognitive dissonance.

I believe the trick here, is to retain the different ideas in your mind but I think what you obviously wouldn't want to do, is try to hold them at once(simultaneously). Situational awareness determines which aspect of a [positve or negative] interpretation you're going to move forward with. ie One day you believe in the New World Order conspiracy, and you want to further your understanding of that perspective. The next day you want to believe that evil could never get a foothold over the world to support such a claim. You order your day's research accordingly.

In my opinion, awareness shifts when you overcome the limits of thought applied by the western logic thought process (ie duality). Admittedly, to overcome this mental paradigm, dysfunction and chaos are required, am I right?

[Edit add-in]Interesting....very interesting...

Using the awareness of an observer/observers You should be able to dig into and manage more than one topic at once. After all every cluster at some stage has an overseer.

originally posted by: KSigMason


I have yet to hear a standardized version of what "upper echelon" or "higher level", so again being sarcastic, I decided to say that I was. I am in a lot of bodies though:

Would dare say that they where the first people to start mapping. 13


I don't buy into the whole conspiracy side to Freemasonry, but some of the things that are stated seem a little unreasonable to believe. 33rd degree is the highest degree ? I find it hard to swallow that masons do less than half a job.




Very interesting topic and some well informed replies

a reply to: Sacri
The 33rd is only relevant to the Scottish Rite though and is only one body out of several in Masonry. Conspiracy theorists see the numbering system and lose their mind.

originally posted by: KSigMason
a reply to: Sacri
The 33rd is only relevant to the Scottish Rite though and is only one body out of several in Masonry. Conspiracy theorists see the numbering system and lose their mind.

When I received my first Dan in karate, my Sensei afterwards congratulated me on achieving my first real white belt.


Seeing the numbers is one thing, understanding is another.

seeing is acknowledgement, implementation however...

In Cowanry... the 32 is a game of "bloody Mary"... rough!
If you survive... you be at the right hand of God as a general and inspector... playing I spy while receiving double for your hardships. It's called 33. ...

Good luck...

a reply to: Pinocchio

I am very interested in a TO lodge, sadly there are none in my country.

I just discovered your Cowan thread.. Lucky for me I am free all weekend

It's been a draining 4-6 weeks with not much time spent alone.


Is luck even needed ? Fundamentally it's erroneous.


The chisel is going back into the tool box, it needs to be balanced and reorganized .

Maybe someday there will be proof.