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A hypothetical for the Freemasons.....

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posted on Jul, 15 2014 @ 03:37 AM
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originally posted by: November5

i just couldn't hold 2 completely different ideas in my head about the same subject at the same time, without it resolving into cognitive dissonance.


It's not that difficult, for example, the way in which Santa Claus (Saint Nicholas) who gave presents to the poor, and the birth of Jesus are simultaneously the reason for Christmas.




posted on Jul, 15 2014 @ 08:01 AM
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originally posted by: Saurus

originally posted by: November5

i just couldn't hold 2 completely different ideas in my head about the same subject at the same time, without it resolving into cognitive dissonance.


It's not that difficult, for example, the way in which Santa Claus (Saint Nicholas) who gave presents to the poor, and the birth of Jesus are simultaneously the reason for Christmas.


yes it is difficult.
i couldn't hold in my head, at the same time, that i was supposed to love others as myself, and yet not associate with them if they held a different belief. that would be like not associating with myself under the original guideline of loving others as myself. a bit of a conundrum.



posted on Jul, 15 2014 @ 08:06 AM
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originally posted by: undo

i couldn't hold in my head, at the same time, that i was supposed to love others as myself, and yet not associate with them if they held a different belief.


This is the very reason why Freemasonry exists - to do good, while allowing each man to have his own belief without fear of criticism or persecution.



posted on Jul, 15 2014 @ 08:11 AM
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originally posted by: Saurus

originally posted by: undo

i couldn't hold in my head, at the same time, that i was supposed to love others as myself, and yet not associate with them if they held a different belief.


This is the very reason why Freemasonry exists - to do good, while allowing each man to have his own belief without fear of criticism or persecution.


yet women are not allowed at the meetings. we ladies are stuffed in the same non-admittance category with felons, murderers and rapists. perhaps we are a different species and no one has had the heart to tell us.

i don't want to hear the eastern star excuse. if i go to dinner, i want to sit at the same table as my husband and son



posted on Jul, 15 2014 @ 08:20 AM
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a reply to: undo

You sound just like my wife. She has the same concerns as you do.

The truth is, Masons take their ritual very seriously, and having women there will distract men from their work. I have seen it time and time again in other societies to which I have belonged - there is always flirting and relationships going on, and this will undeniably distract from the ritual.

Furthermore, it is traditionally a brotherhood, and the lessons in Masonry teach men how to be better men, in line with many of the traditional roles of men and women in society. This could be changed, but then it would no longer be Freemasonry. In fact, it already has, and the non-gender specific rituals are those found in the Eastern Star. In all seriousness, I can't imagine women wanting to learn how to be a better man.

Still further, women don't enjoy the same things as men. My wife finds all the swordplay that goes on in the rituals 'childish', whereas men tend to enjoy it, for example.


edit on 15/7/2014 by Saurus because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 15 2014 @ 08:28 AM
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a reply to: Saurus

well if we are the same species "man" then i don't see the point of separating. it's like hiding women under veils because men don't want to have to be better men about that particular aspect of themselves. why not? isn't that also part of being a better man? lol or, how about this: women should learn to be better women by not flirting with the men at the meetings and vice-a-versa . make that part of the introduction to the lodge -- you're there to learn something better/higher, than your flesh cravings. unless i missed something in the description. lol



posted on Jul, 15 2014 @ 08:39 AM
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p.s. swordplay and women. you have GOT to watch this. watch it to the end. seriously.





posted on Jul, 15 2014 @ 08:43 AM
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a reply to: undo

If you can help me get into this sorority, I will try to get you into our fraternity.



posted on Jul, 15 2014 @ 08:53 AM
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originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: undo

If you can help me get into this sorority, I will try to get you into our fraternity.


lol wait, guys in fraternities run around in their underwear beating each other with pillows?
hehe
hahaha.
/wipe tears
aaaaaaaahhhhhhahaha.



posted on Jul, 15 2014 @ 09:39 AM
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my sorority is apparently a fraternity. lol there are no female angels! whaaa. who said? only female devils? whhaaa. who said?


oh doh. nikitta is a guy.
rofl.
edit on 15-7-2014 by undo because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 16 2014 @ 02:23 PM
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originally posted by: undo

yet women are not allowed at the meetings. we ladies are stuffed in the same non-admittance category with felons, murderers and rapists. perhaps we are a different species and no one has had the heart to tell us.

i don't want to hear the eastern star excuse. if i go to dinner, i want to sit at the same table as my husband and son


Just because you're not allowed to go along, doesn't mean you're "lumped" with felons, murderers and rapists. Children aren't allowed to go - but we don't see them as those unsavoury types.

Freemasonry is a "fraternity" - for men only. Just as a a sorority is for women only. And just because they are gender specific, doesn't mean they then have a negative view of the opposite sex.



posted on Jul, 16 2014 @ 04:37 PM
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originally posted by: undo

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: undo

If you can help me get into this sorority, I will try to get you into our fraternity.


lol wait, guys in fraternities run around in their underwear beating each other with pillows?
hehe
hahaha.
/wipe tears
aaaaaaaahhhhhhahaha.


Um, no. See that was a SORORITY with WOMEN having a pillow fight. Now I wouldn't be opposed to belong to that sorority to join in the fun. (I am not ashamed to go topless)

A fraternity has men in it. They may partake in pillow fights as well, but I couldn't tell you. I still have 3 years of college eligibility.

My point was, fraternity=men and sorority=women. It's not a slight against anyone, it's just how it is.



posted on Jul, 16 2014 @ 07:00 PM
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a reply to: network dude

well i think since we all fit under the header of mankind, i don't see why some mankind can't go there, provided they aren't criminals, and as someone else said, people do change over time, so what may be a felon one day, may not be the next. what exclusiveness like that does, is separate us into not worthy or worthy categories that technically shouldn't exist inperpetuity. let's face it, the guys who made that decision also thought women were house furniture



posted on Jul, 16 2014 @ 07:11 PM
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originally posted by: undo
...so what may be a felon one day, may not be the next. what exclusiveness like that does, is separate us into not worthy or worthy categories that technically shouldn't exist inperpetuity.


Frankly I do not want felons in my lodge. We do quite a bit of community based work and it the people we are helping should not have to wonder if a convicted felon is in their midst.

The expression is, 'Making good men better', not, 'Trying to make bad men better'. We are not a rehabilitation service.



edit on 16-7-2014 by AugustusMasonicus because: networkdude has no beer but if he did he would drink it from a skull



posted on Jul, 16 2014 @ 07:16 PM
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a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

hubby did a paper on dna testing in death sentence cases. that was an eye opener. so many people on death row, were exonerated due to dna testing, some states were forced to remove capital punishment laws. just imagine, an innocent person who life has screwed over, provided it hasn't driven them insane, is going to be a much better person for it. and a person that learns from the crimes of their youth, learns it better than most. ever watch the shawshank redemption?


edit on 16-7-2014 by undo because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 16 2014 @ 07:19 PM
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originally posted by: undo
hubby did a paper on dna testing in death sentence cases. that was an eye opener. so many people on death row, were exonerated due to dna testing, some states were forced to remove capital punishment laws. just imagine, an innocent person who life has screwed over, provided it hasn't driven them insane, is going to be a much better person for it. and a person that learns from the crimes of their youth, learns it better than most. ever watch the shawshank redemption?


Both of your instances the person was innocent. We do a background check prior to initiating a candidate, if an felony was overturned that would be removed from their record.



posted on Jul, 16 2014 @ 07:26 PM
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originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

Both of your instances the person was innocent. We do a background check prior to initiating a candidate, if an felony was overturned that would be removed from their record.


watch this and imagine it was a guy who had done a crime in his youth




posted on Jul, 16 2014 @ 07:30 PM
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originally posted by: undo
watch this and imagine it was a guy who had done a crime in his youth


Read it and watched it. No dice. No felons.



posted on Jul, 16 2014 @ 07:34 PM
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a reply to: noonebutme
I'm still waiting for my admission into one of my college's sororities.

a reply to: undo
In regards to gender, it's not about who is worthy and who isn't.

a reply to: undo
Yes, yes, but the fact remains he committed a crime.



posted on Jul, 16 2014 @ 07:35 PM
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originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: undo
watch this and imagine it was a guy who had done a crime in his youth


Read it and watched it. No dice. No felons.


you realize of course, that you've done things here in this country, that would be considered felonies in other countries (lol of course in other countries, women are worse then house furniture).

i believe in the ability of people to change. i don't think that if you make a mistake, it's genetic and should be held against you for the rest of your life. i find such a concept incredibly inhumane.




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