Trusting and Doubting 9/11, a neverending story. Additional T&B-evidence

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posted on Jul, 29 2014 @ 02:54 PM
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a reply to: hgfbob



sorry but the act of collapse does NOT explain the collapse.


So why doesn't lord Gage the first lay out how the towers were brought down?
All I've heard him say is 'it can't be this or It can't be that".

Has anyone ever heard him say it was thermite? Or cutting charges?
Has he ever explained how explosives survived the impacts?




posted on Jul, 29 2014 @ 03:36 PM
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a reply to: samkent




So why doesn't lord Gage the first lay out how the towers were brought down?
All I've heard him say is 'it can't be this or It can't be that".


to tell ya the truth....that is why I never fully trusted him...he does not talk or explain like an architect would.

and I don't even mention him either...there is no need to.

personally I think he's a buffoon to further cloud the issue...."oh yea, I'm an architect but I have NO idea why I think as I do".....lol....give me a break.

he supposedly studied physics and knows for a FACT that mass accelerating equal to g. can do no work.

you start from the facts and work backwards.....105 vertical feet of accelerating mass equal to g. occurring globally and unified means a clear path for 105 vertical feet.....no if's, and's or but's.



posted on Jul, 29 2014 @ 06:25 PM
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originally posted by: waypastvne

originally posted by: LaBTop


I found out that the steel floor plate decks at that side of that tower at that floor were not laid along, but instead were laid perpendicular to the exterior columns.
Which meant that the trusses under those floor plate decks could never have sagged and pulled those decks down, to be visible in that photo in the NIST report.



You looked at the wrong building. The photo was from the south tower. The trusses were running perpendicular to the pulled in wall on both buildings.

media.portland.indymedia.org...


At least and last, an intelligent opponent. Let's look at it my way.
If you look at my second picture in my above post :
files.abovetopsecret.com...


you can see in there the north face of the South tower around my red text "South Tower", and you can observe then the perpendicular to that face laid out floor plates in the wide middle section of that north face of the South tower.

And that is what I hinted at.



The observable hanging objects in your above linked to photo, run from the left side of the picture (from column 255) to the right side (to column 239), and there are in total, 21 columns from the 4 columns further, far left column 259, towards that column 239.
From those 21 columns, the numbers 12 to 21 are ALSO showing those hanging objects, and those column numbers were situated in front of perpendicular laid out floor plates.
You can check that lay-out, in my above already posted 6 photo's.
I counted these columns, in my 4th photo. In there you can see them as long dark-red vertical bands at max zoom.


waypastvne : You looked at the wrong building. The photo was from the south tower. The trusses were running perpendicular to the pulled in wall on both buildings.


Exactly what I already said, only you did not understand what my main point really was.
Read my text above, and under photo number 5 again, to understand what my main point was (hint : first line under that photo 5).

My second point which I explained a bit further, was that a huge conglomerate of welded together floor plate decks, filled with lightweight concrete that was extra reinforced by mats of rebar steel, are clearly not sagging in that NIST photo, and I offered the most logical explanation for that pulling inwards of those walls, both just before collapse started : cutter charges that sliced those core columns, where the whole floor surface was bolded and welded on via steel seats, and then those columns sank a few meters down, all the while pulling those perpendicular laid-out floors also downwards under a small angle, and thus they pulled, in reaction on that force, their exterior columns' seats down and inwards, until the first electrostatic thermobaric bomb was ignited, and then the rest of them.
Dustifying all concrete and pressing its now concrete-dust against the exterior walls as a loose layer, before these walls also gave way under the relatively slowly build up pressure from the e-TB explosion (a sign of a TB, in contrast to HE's) and were expelled out- and downwards, while loosing all that accumulated dust again on the way down. Exactly as we saw.

By the way, your posting of that NIST report picture made me re-think all my arguments, and now it is clear to me, that I can add another one.

Those concrete floors at that north face side of the South tower in your above picture were not sagging together with their firmly welded-on underlaying double-paired trusses, otherwise we would have seen also in those same row of broken windows at floor 80, the base of those raging flames of those raging fires on the 81st floor.
There is clearly no raging fire just above those sagging objects at that 80st floor at the moment of that photographed fire.
Which means that we definitely see no sagging trusses, but most probably, sagging aluminum ceiling rims.



posted on Jul, 30 2014 @ 01:06 AM
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It seems, I have to explain logically, or simply solve some severe misunderstandings about cause and effect of some of the most outstanding events during 9/11.
What we saw during the Twin Towers collapses and what really stood out and amazed us, among other things, were :

1. The massive explosive ring-shaped dust clouds bulging outwards and also up and away, from the floors they were originating from. As if huge detonations originated from inside those floor spaces. Or even deeper inside, from the core column spaces. And repetitions of detonations were set off at every second lower floor in a sequence that was close to a gravitational collapse behavior. Just as the 9/11-Planners intended it.

2. The steel exterior column-assemblies which were 'smoking' or were trailing dust as they fell. Some of them were laterally thrown out for distances as far as 300 feet.
Huge exterior surfaces, as big as 10 floors high and wide, were launched outwards.

3. The dust & debris cloud squibs, that spit out from windows under the collapse clouds fronts, with measured velocities from 60 to 70 mph.

And also all additional amazing things the Internet researchers found out later, in the years after 9/11/2001, from what emerged from, f.ex. the extensive research, undertaken by :

LDEO (seismic), USGS (dust), FEMA (first investigation), The 9/11 Commission (second), NIST (third), and all the individual research by numerous Internet researchers :

[A.] The iron micro-spheres in the dust found by Dr Jones & Dr Harrit.

[B.] The sulferized oxidation at high heat of some recovered steel found by FEMA, making it look like sliced Swiss cheese.

[C.] The correlation found by Jeff Prager between nuclear atomic radiation decay end products, in near perfect lockstep with each other. Normally only found after a nuclear atomic explosion, or in a nuclear fission reactor. Both involving Uranium-238.
And depleted Uranium (dU) as one of the end (or start-) products.

[D.] The seismic anomalies, as found by LaBTop for WTC 7, and Dr Graeme McQueen and Dr Rousseau for WTC 1 and 2.
Hinting strongly at the nefarious use of some kinds of mixtures of known and still unknown top-secret explosives, seconds before, and during all three collapses of WTC S-2, WTC N-1 and WTC 7.
Only the postponed, sudden discovery of chemical or physical traces of these kinds of explosives would make it an undeniable fact.
Be it traces from, for example, RDX, thermobarics or nuclear explosive sources.

[E.] The Pentagon anomalies with the North of CITGO gas station its flight-path witnesses, and the Flight 93 anomalies.
I better not expand on them in this thread. I wrote lots of it in other thread posts.

--more--



posted on Jul, 30 2014 @ 01:08 AM
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Regarding :

[1.] Those massive explosive ring-shaped dust clouds can be perfectly viewed in the already posted videos of the North and South tower collapses, posted by David Chandler, and listen then to his additional comments. (See my later posted REFERENCES)
He also attends the viewer on the dust & debris spitting out at speeds of 60 to 70 mph. That were the cutter charges exploding several floors lower than the massive explosive ring-shaped dust clouds, which pre-cut the inner core steel columns, about 30 meters away from the windows those squibs were spitting out from. When those cloud rings reached the floor above those column cuts, the whole inner core columns packet broke off from their still intact, lower parts, when the next e-TB was ignited, and the whole global collapse proceeded further down, in its 2-floor by 2-floor sequence.
Two floors because then, the e-TB on the second floor blew up the above and below concrete in those floor decks, into a fine dust. And crumbled the thin steel decks the concrete was laid on.
Then the explosion front with all the dust in front of it, reached the exterior panels and columns, and sheared the seats of the floor trusses off from those exterior plates, and then expelled them outwards with too high speeds to be caused by a real gravitational collapse effect. Exactly what we see happening in all those collapse videos.

[2.] Imagine an e-TB exploding in a WTC-floorspace. The enormous explosion front speeds of >30,000 m/sec in a circle of around 30 meters around the initial detonation, will instantly crumble all cement and concrete in the floors to fine dust.
That dust will be pressed against the exterior columns, before these get sheared off from the trusses under those not more existing concrete floors. Then these exterior surfaces are launched outward and fall downward, while loosing all that compressed dust on the way down.

[3.] Squibs were caused by (probably depleted Uranium lined) inner core columns cutter charges. See my reasoning already written up in above points 1 & 2.

--more--
edit on 30/7/14 by LaBTop because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 30 2014 @ 01:14 AM
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Regarding :
[A.] The extensive use of thermitic or thermatic explosives is not logical because of its relatively slow burn times, and it would be difficult to explain the other anomalies, combined with its use.
The intense white hot glow accompanying it, would stand out as a torch in all videos of the 3 tower-exteriors.
Usage in their deep interior regions, like the core regions, would not be visible in those videos, and there they could have been used to pre-cut the very thick, massive, 47 inner core steel columns and their cross beams. Their use on or near exterior columns would be totally illogical, since we saw no ultra-bright signs of them used there.
I also ask myself, if the use of e-TB's on every second floor would have grinder the thin steel decks eventually also into such fine dispersed iron spheres. The heat given off during an e-TB explosion is also very high, enough to melt those thin steel deck plates into such iron globules.

[B.] Sulferized oxidation is another expression for metal that burns up by reacting with oxygen from the atmosphere, be it fast (lots of external heat), or slow (rusting, with no observable heat).
Assisted by additions of sulfur salts or free sulfur.
It is not clear to me if FEMA has saved and locked away those "swiss cheese" steel parts, which they expected to originate from somewhere in the WTC 7 rubble heap.
WTC 7 steel was the first to get transported away.
Much more than what they already wrote on the subject can't be said anymore, without a new 9/11 investigation by real neutral researchers.
They strongly suggested to spend much more research on that phenomenon, but no one listened to it. Let it be to get a chance to follow up on their find.
My stance on the matter : This could have happened in the hot spot under WTC 7, in the period between September 13 and 23 when NASA heat-probed from a plane over Ground Zero and recorded these high temperatures. After 9/23 most WTC hot spots were tempered down to much lower temperatures.

[C.] I still have, and will always have, high praise for Jeff Prager's outstanding work on the USGS dust analysis reports, showing us indeed the very amazing abundance of non-radioactive decay end products and their correlations.
However, those could also be explained by usage of depleted Uranium (dU) as linings in cutter charges, instead of the usual copper linings.
Or by usage of dU as part of the chemical cloud in electrostatic thermobaric bombs. In such a case that electrostatic TB is used to cut those thick inner core columns. You can design discus-shaped electrostatic-TB clouds, which act as steel column cutters.

Most of the mini or micro neutron bombs on 9/11 advocates have come to their choice, because they think there is no comparable or usable other form of explosive, which can blow up those twin towers, exactly the way we saw it happen before our own eyes on 9/11.

They were not aware yet, of the immense explosive power of electrostatic-ThermoBaric bombs.
These were then, classified devices, mostly used by operatives of three letter agencies within hidden black operations.
Professor Cohen, the inventor of the atomic Neutron-bomb, named electrostatic-TB's in his description of them, a-Neutron bombs, so as to express his awe after seeing its enormous explosive power, without the radiation effects (neutrons) so well known from his own invention.
He called such an e-TB monster, a near-atomic explosive device.

And he was explicitly impressed by the near total absence of any traces of the detonation of an electrostatic TB, after the event.
All traces of e-TB's are gaseous, and dissipate quickly in the surrounding air and get spread by the wind.
Someone who knows that an e-TB is used, would go on a meticulous search for tiny traces of RDX, C4 or such high explosives, since they are used as tiny initiation devices for the various near instantaneous (micro-seconds) stages of the full explosion of a 3-stage e-TB which utilizes a small piezoelectric device for charging the gaseous cloud electrostically.
But their traces would be so minimal, they would be lost in the very fine dust deposit resulting from such e-TB explosions. Dust from concrete floors, walls, bricks, tiles and plaster, all found in common high rises.

Exploding e-TB's inside a structure will instantaneously grind any concrete structures, f.ex. 4 inch thick concrete on steel decks in a WTC tower, to ultra fine dust. And melt the thin steel decks where the concrete was poured on at construction time. Also melting the thin steel re-bars inside the concrete floors.


For an impressive demonstration, view the first video in this article of a Russian experiment with a really huge TB (equal to 44 tons of TNT), exploding far above a conglomerate of 4 stories high concrete buildings :
Article



--more--



posted on Jul, 30 2014 @ 01:16 AM
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Do not get distracted by Trusters who will say that an electrostatic TB is just a Fuel-Air bomb. As this article also said.

These e-TB's are definitely many, many steps higher in technical development, explosive power and complexity than F-A devices.

The complexity for example of that piezoelectric thermobaric device, that triggers the detonation of the small, last stage its HE charge (RDX f.ex.).
Its pressure trigger is depending on the pre-dial setting knob, which sets the ideal detonation cloud-pressure, which is the exact barometric pressure of the mixture of air and chemical cloud, expanding above that bottom-fixed little barometric-device, that delivers the best mixture-ratio, optioned for maximum explosive-energy, compared to the maximum attainable gaseous&chemicals-cloud extension.

Imagine an old fashioned aneroid wall-barometer, with that peculiar thin copper coil-in-a-box in the center, where a pointer indicates the present air pressure in millibar or mm Hg or inch Hg (Hg = quicksilver a.k.a. mercury) on a dial-plate (f.ex. 1013 Mb).
They modified that coil-in-a-box, so it is able to react on the much higher pressures. And added a triggering potentiometer instead of a pointer.

And then you have the complexity of the piezoelectric device, that was added to the barometric device. The same developing cloud-pressure induces a very-high voltage (but low amperage) electro-statical load in its bottom-attached piezoelectric crystal.
When the pressure reaches a nearly explosive value for the cloud, the container with the loaded crystal bursts open and launches its top cover, where a thin copper or niobium line is attached to, which is rolling off a spool. When that line is fully unrolled, a small pull is exerted on a micro-switch, that makes the connection between the fully loaded crystal and the line attached to the top cover. Then the whole expanding cloud is charged with a high electrostatic potential (>30,000 Volt) that has the strange still not fully comprehended effect of cooling that cloud, so it can not self-detonate.
Then, after reaching a few microseconds later, the pre-dialed pressure, the cloud is detonated with the tiny RDX charge, and explosive speeds of > 20,000 meter per second are reached by the explosive fronts. Because the cloud is now nearly comprised of nano particles, caused by the effect of the first stage explosive and the second stage electrostatic loading of that dispersed chemicals cloud. A statical load's negative or positive charge pushes every particle away from its surrounding particles, since they now all have the same charge, and same charges give same repulsive forces, thus spreading all particles, atoms and molecules in the cloud into a near-ideal gas cloud.
And that delivers such amazing high explosion-front speeds.
Which easily dustify every concrete structure in its cloud extension reach.

Imagine these e-TB monsters monsters hidden in the WTC cores.....
No detectable traces of them....
No radiation....
Enormous explosive forces, 1/5th of atomic strength....
RDX = 7,000-9,000 m/sec
e-TB = >20,000 m/sec
Nuclear = >100,000 m/sec

What you see when these e-TB monsters get exploded in a close to gravitational-speed downward direction, is EXACTLY what you see if you view all these videos of the twin tower collapses.
Just look again at the David Chandler videos of the North and South tower collapses I posted already. Where you see these rings of whitish concrete dust clouds spitting out of every second floor, at all four sides.
All these explosive dust cloud rings racing downwards at close to gravitational speeds.
Very simple to program into a radiographic signals computer program.

[D.] See my other posts in other threads.
ATS-Search for " LaBTop seismic "


[E.] See my other posts in other threads.
ATS-Search for " LaBTop Pentagon " or " LaBTop Flight 93 "

--more--



posted on Jul, 30 2014 @ 01:20 AM
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REFERENCES :

This is video 20 from a whole list of David Chandler videos.
Let the next videos play after this one, if you are a hard core 9/11 researcher, with a whole lot of time and deep interest at hand.
Cutter Charges in the North Tower of the World Trade Center.



David's videos account.

Wikipedia, thermobaric weapon , 67 References and 9 external links.
They keep avoiding the next generation of fuel-air bombs, the TB's :
en.wikipedia.org...

Title : Hydrocarbon warhead and method,
a US patent with drawings and with 18 other patent-citations links (read their titles.! ) :
www.google.com...

This is the extended FUEL/AIR BOMB design, that was the basis for the later electrostatic-THERMOBARIC BOMB developments :
Title : High explosive disseminator for a high explosive air bomb,
a US patent with a drawing and 7 other patent-citations links (read their titles.! ) :
www.google.com...

And this is the single drawing from the above patent :
files.abovetopsecret.com...


Compare it to this misfired TB, found on a street in Chechnya, when the Russians were bombing that muslemic country with their TB's :
files.abovetopsecret.com...


CONCLUSION :

Let this emphatic message sink in for a while.
Then realize what kind of society we could have, where these events-effects will not happen anymore.....



You now are able to feel the tears and endless sorrow from all the relatives from those who died and are dieing in these endless wars.
And realize which countries are the champions of sustaining them.
It's a very short list......


--End--
edit on 30/7/14 by LaBTop because: Changed dying to dieing.
edit on 30/7/14 by LaBTop because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 30 2014 @ 01:31 AM
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a reply to: LaBTop




a whole lot of time and deep interest at hand.




You really are dedicated...

I have a deep interest, but not so much time


Anyway, I'll try to check in on these...



posted on Jul, 30 2014 @ 03:28 AM
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Waypastvne, that NIST report photo you posted :



is from the north face of the South tower. The second plane impacted the opposite side, the south face. At an angle, at the east side, and nearly missing that tower.
Which resulted in the heavier parts of the right wing and the fuselage, and a part of the left wing, slicing through the office space on several floors on the east side of that tower, and ending heaped-up against its northeast corner, as you see in your photo.

That angled impact resulted in cartwheeling landing gear struts, jet motor parts and the more sturdier parts of the longitudinal beams plus parts of the cut vertical wing beams, slicing through several floors heights and shoveling office materials in front of them. Ending up in a heap at that northeast corner.
The somewhat smaller pieces shot out from that north face its east side.

That's most probably why we see those hanging ceilings rims, through those broken, now open windows on the 80st floor. Those ceilings were sliced loose by all those shooting through, plane and building parts.
I think those windows were shattered by building parts and plane parts shooting through their 80st floor windows glass. As we can see in the various videos of that second plane impact.
As long glowing or burning streaks, in a downward trajectory to the ground.





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