Mental health care practitioners manipulate for Money - It's a SCAM

a reply to: boymonkey74

I don't know of a single alcoholism counselor who'd consider that NON-dependent.

It would have been interesting to test your fine motor coordination and other acuity skills.

a reply to: BO XIAN

Thing is I was not dependant at all, never have I thought oh I must drink. On my days off I may have had a beer or not it didn't bother me.
The day I left the pub game I didn't have a drink for about a month or two because I drank for my job not because I needed to get pissed.
When I was in New York people were shocked that I had a beer at 1pm because our drinking culture is ok with a pint early or late.
You may consider me being dependant on the beer but I was not and I know many people whom have a pint or three everyday but none are alcoholics.
My motor skills were always fine plus my mental skills because I still had a business to run and many things to do after the pub closed.
Like I said real alcoholic hit the top shelf stuff.

6. Personally, I've never known anyone who drank 3 or more beers/shots/glasses of wine PER DAY to stay at a low level WITHOUT A SIGNIFICANT ALCOHOL PROBLEM.

That'd be me! At LEAST three a day pretty much since I started drinking at age 15.

It's crazy how much negativity took place independence day weekend. I also almost fought a good friend, I almost destroyed myself as well as my marriage too.

It was so bad that I'm finally cured. Will never drink another drop. I'm on day #7 now of pure sobriety, and more motivated now to continue to not drink even more so then during my 48hr hangover. It feels so good to be on this path. I will face the rest of this life clear headed.......

Anyway, yes they do manipulate. I was going through a hard time with some anxiety when my I almost lost my wife and son due to H.E.L.P syndrome.

I went to see a quack and practically diagnosed myself. They were more than happy to oblige, and before I knew it I had mass amounts of "Pristiq" sample packs and a prescription, plus some "Abilify" and some benzos.

Of course I wasn't informed of the INTENSE horrific withdrawals, and how difficult it is to get off this stuff. Or that it would magnify my simple anxiety extremely. Starting me down a long rough road of despair from which I eventually emerged Victorious. 100% med free and victorious. No thanks to anyone or anything but the loving, patient support of a strong woman, my own will, and my God.

Had the Mental health peeps had their way I would still be residing in that hell.

S&F Op, sorry you had a rough weekend. I understand how alcohol can bring out demons we didn't even know we had.

Ugh, never going back, I'm tapping out...

originally posted by: BO XIAN
a reply to: JohnPhoenix

1. Psychiatrists prescribing meds can get, imho, too hefty a payments from the government and/or insurance companies for a 30 min or less evaluation. Sheesh. And then ditto for 10 min followup. I'm not a fan of that.

2. I was not with you in your situation. Some of it does sound a bit overdone on the part of officialdom.

3. HOWEVER, JUST FROM WHAT YOU'VE TOLD us in this thread . . . and per my year working at the clinic the retired head of the Navy Long Beach alcohol center (that treated Betty Ford)--from my work at the clinic he started up . . . I'd say you have a significant alcohol problem.

4. i.e. you DO have some alcohol dependency issues that you are likely in some degree of denial over.

5. 8 beers a day and pretending that's not a problem is DENIAL.

6. Personally, I've never known anyone who drank 3 or more beers/shots/glasses of wine PER DAY to stay at a low level WITHOUT A SIGNIFICANT ALCOHOL PROBLEM.

7. The famous priest who did the "chalk talks" long ago noted once that he knew someone who was only drunk 3 times--and he had a serious alcohol problem.

The first time [I may have the sequence and specifics a bit off but the gist is accurate] he got drunk, he lost his driver's license.

The 2nd time he got drunk, he lost his job.

The 3rd time he got drunk, he lost his freedom and concluded in prison, accurately, that he had an alcohol problem.

8. You hit a BEST FRIEND who was born without arms . . . BECAUSE OF ALCOHOL

AND STILL YOU ARE DEFENDING YOUR 8 BEERS IN ONE DAY AS NO PROBLEM. THAT IN ITSELF IS SERIOUS EVIDENCE OF SERIOUS DENIAL.

9. IF you are capable of doing that to your best friend, you are quite plausibly, likely capable of killing a spouse or a child or anyone else because you had 8 beers or 10 or 12 or whatever.

10. IF you really want the truth about the effects of alcohol . . . take a Mavis Beacon Typing test without any alcohol. Drink a can of beer. Take the identical test again. Drink another beer. Take the identical test again. Drink another beer. Take the identical test again . . . through 8 beers and see if you can make it--taking the same test each time. Notice the deterioration of your ability with each test and each additional can of beer.

11. THE FIRST CAN OF BEER HAS ALREADY STARTED TO ANESTHETIZE--PUT TO SLEEP 2 CRITICAL PARTS OF YOUR FUNCTIONING:

(A) YOUR BRAIN'S JUDGMENT CENTER that tells you how close is too close when driving; that tells you how much is too much, alcohol, or anger, or physical aggression etc.

(B) Your fine motor coordination.

12. 3 drinks/cans of beer within too short a time period have significantly altered both areas of functioning into a DYSFUNCTIONAL STATUS.

13. It does NOT MATTER that it involved a sports event. "NORMAL" is not necessarily healthy or functional or even legal. And "normal" for someone in any significant degree of denial is likely very dysfunctional and destructive.

14. I've seen through counseling too many individuals and families with alcohol problems the HORRIFIC DESTRUCTIVENESS it entails.

15. I know that even some alcohol professionals have thought my comments about 3 or more drinks in 24 hours has always--in my experience with people, observing them and their lives and families up close and personal--sooner or later it progressed to much more than 3 and their family lives were destroyed.

16. Maybe it took several months or several years or a decade but it always happened.

17. In some very rare cases--I can think of maybe one or two only--I've seen folks cut back to 1 drink in 24 hours VERY STRICTLY AND RIGIDLY and manage to cope alright--particularly if it was say a glass of wine just before bedtime.

18. But I can't recall ever seeing anyone who drank 3 or more in 24 hours CONTINUE TO KEEP IT STRICTLY TO ONLY 3. IT ALWAYS PROGRESSED TO MUCH MORE THAN THAT.

19. Imho, you DO NEED A SERIOUS EVALUATION BY A FAIRLY NO-NONSENSE ALCOHOLISM CENTER. You owe to yourself and to those who love you--and certainly to your armless friend.

Star for that valuable post,

Powerful motivation to be rid of that poison.

a reply to: boymonkey74

I'll have to take your word for it. LOL.

You sound like an enormous anomaly per my experience and training.

It has been said that if one can stop drinking totally for 6 months and not have an urge to drink, then one is probably not an alcoholic.

a reply to: GoShredAK

CONGRATS ON YOUR GREAT PROGRESS.

AND CONGRATS on extricating yourself from the alcohol consumption as well as from the circus of some of the mental health folks and systems.

Intense motivation to save one's marriage and prevent the destructive impacts on one's offspring CAN be great--if one keeps one's focus on those extremely high priorities.

Many fail that challenge to great hurt all around.

a reply to: BO XIAN

The USA was built by functional alcoholics. Everybody has vices.

I agree that it can bring out one's inner demons and some should stay away.

My experience with the addiction 'experts' has been quite negative. I can see who they can manipulate people, especially parents, into getting 'patients' to volunteer themselves to costly re-hab programs that generally do not work.

a reply to: BO XIAN

Whoever said that is wrong.
You are basically saying everyone is an alcoholic with that statement how many people whom drink go without one for 6 months? you are saying because once a month I may think Hhhmmm I will have a beer tonight I just fancy one Iam an alcoholic.
Thats about 90% of the people who drink in the world....no.. many enjoy a drink and be responsible and do not "need" a drink.
Goshrek good for you If it made you be like you were of course give it up.
It is like anything it is your choice to drink or not but if it effects others it is a problem.
But throwing the label alcoholic around when people just enjoy a drink is just silly.

a reply to: jrod

Yup my thoughts exactly while they do a good job Iam sure they make up these stats and rules like only two units a day etc because then they can label anyone whom has more an alcoholic, then the treatment starts and the counsellors get paid.

originally posted by: BO XIAN
a reply to: GoShredAK

CONGRATS ON YOUR GREAT PROGRESS.

AND CONGRATS on extricating yourself from the alcohol consumption as well as from the circus of some of the mental health folks and systems.

Intense motivation to save one's marriage and prevent the destructive impacts on one's offspring CAN be great--if one keeps one's focus on those extremely high priorities.

Many fail that challenge to great hurt all around.

Thank you so much.

It's been a long time coming, should have made this step years ago.

I know it'll be a challenge but I DO NOT plan on failing.

All the energy I was wasting belongs to my faith and my family.

I know there are demons just chomping at the bit to get me back. Not going to happen this time. With Christ as my savior I will strive forward with positivity.

(No ATS, I'm not blaming my problems on actual demons, I own them. The demons just get happy when I am being weak.)

Thank you very much for the kind words Bo Xian.

And I wish you luck OP in never ending up in such a situation again.

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: BO XIAN

Goshrek good for you If it made you be like you were of course give it up.
It is like anything it is your choice to drink or not but if it effects others it is a problem.
But throwing the label alcoholic around when people just enjoy a drink is just silly.

Thanks, I can't judge another persons journey, but I can be here as an example of one of those who has no business drinking.

For me, it fed the bad wolf.

I could go months seeming like a guy who can handle his booze no problem, then comes that binge that surpasses the tipping point, then, the destruction.

Now more than ever I need to be feeding the good wolf.

Back to topic now sorry

a reply to: boymonkey74

More people in their rehab program=more money. Another aspect to look at is most people referred for a substance abuse evaluation are doing so under court order, at a court ordered center. Often it is part of the conditions of a person's probation or pre-trial deal to comply and pay for whatever 'treatment' that counselor deems necessary.

It is a vicious cycle that causes more harm than good. The only ones who will ever get clean and sober are the ones who do it on their own free-will.

a reply to: jrod

Certainly not all rehab programs are equal. Some are top flight--and as effective as possible--often quite effective with folks who truly want to quite. And some are more akin to a scam--whether by design or by incompetence and poor training of the staff.

a reply to: jrod

Guess I disagree with that.

I've seen court ordered rehab work for some. I don't recall the percentages.

The program I worked in had mostly court ordered clients.

LOL. One bloke, came into the group process part.

He had had 8 DUI'S! One had either landed a mother and kids in the hospital or killed some of them or both. One had landed him in the hospital. He'd served jail time for some, IIRC.

And THE FIRST WORDS OUT OF HIS MOUTH IN THE GROUP AS HE WAS COURT ORDERED TO BE IN FOR HIS 9TH DUI WAS:

"I DON'T NEED TO BE HERE. I DON'T HAVE AN ALCOHOL PROBLEM!"

So, please excuse me if I don't take what comes across as TYPICAL DENIAL very seriously.

a reply to: JohnPhoenix

The words about just how far off base you are in nearly every aspect of your OP have yet to be formulated...

For anyone to sit and analyze the other guy's motivation after the description of what took place (caused by your very hands) is indicative of the thinking of an ass of the highest magnitude.

a reply to: boymonkey74

NO. I'm NOT saying that ANYONE who has a drink once a night or once in 6 months is an alcoholic.

I was trying to say that

For someone who SEEMED, APPEARED TO HAVE a chronic dependency problem not being able to avoid drinking at all . . .

FOR THAT PERSON, GOING 6 MONTHS WITHOUT A DRINK AND NOT having the compulsive desperate URGE to drink that 6 months

would be a good test FOR THAT PERSON.

Basically, what I have found in the years of dealing with alcoholism and in several years as a licensed clinical addictions counselor, nearly every (I like to use the 80/20 rule) addict always gets a huge case of "smarts," when they get into any program. They become smarter than the doctors, they become smarter than the counselors, and they are nearly always looking for an excuse to abandon the treatment prior to beginning...

If a person who had a broken arm took this attitude in getting his arm fixed (i.e., Patient: "Doc, I have broken arm and I would like you to fix it." Doc: "Sure, first we will take some x-rays, find out what exactly needs to be fixed, and then fix it." Patient: "First doc, I need to know something...have you ever had a broken arm? If you have not, you cannot fix my arm.") then there would be virtually no medical practice.

And of course, no skunk smells its own stink...similar to an alcoholic/addict, claiming, "NO problem here...!!!"

a reply to: BO XIAN

More often then not, a person will fail a drug test, miss a class and end up violating probation and stuck in the legal system.

Like I said, a viscous cycle that is difficult to get out of, and addiction has nothing to do with it. We have become a country, at least some of the USA that refuses to take responsibility for our own actions and appears to be becoming increasingly dependent on a Nanny type of government intervention in an attempt to iron out the problems.

As for someone with 9 DUIs, that is an extreme case and his family and friends should take measures to prevent that person from driving. Most people live in denial, especially about their own personal problems.

I can tell you from personal experience that I was wrongly diagnosed as alcohol dependent and that diagnosis has had an extremely negative impact on my life and overall mental health. I am lucky that I have a strong mind and will and not one to blindly believe what someone else tells me.

I do NOT have an incurable disease

a reply to: JohnPhoenix
You binge drink to the point of blackout and violence during the black out. Violence against a 'best friend'. Then you say you don't want the cops to beat you. Any mental health professional is going to take a long hard look at you. Sorry, but there is a problem there. Since you posted online that means you invite comment. My comment ... you need time in an alcohol dependency clinic. I wish you well. Good luck.

a reply to: BO XIAN

Hello,
I respect that you have been educated and trained in this area, but I do wonder if you are perhaps seeing the world a little too... black and white?
I'm not much of a drinker, maybe a few glasses of wine a year, and some beer if I'm at some kind of get together(truth be told, I don't like the taste of beer). I have no urge or desire to drink normally. There have been some night long fishing trips with some good ol' boys in the country where I have drank 8 or so beers over the course of the entire night(til morning), telling stories with my friends around a campfire.
Now, I understand the seriousness of binge drinking, repeatedly drinking 8 beers like... once per week and over the course of a few hours a night... But if you can look at the above situation and say that someone who does that once per few years, or even once per few months, has a problem, then I think most of America has a problem... And it might be that a large proportion of Americans are binge drinkers, or it might be that the criterion to make that determination is faulty...
Regards,
Hydeman