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Intelligence Bill: Trojan Horse for American Style Gestapo?

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posted on Dec, 2 2004 @ 02:00 PM
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Is the intelligence bill a trojan horse for an American-style Gestapo?
It is a valid question concerning some of the provisions within this bill, all the information on citizens would be centralized and when something is centralized it is easier to gain control over that information that is centralized. It threatens our democracy to let one branch of the intelligence community to have all the information and be able to direct all the intelligence efforts. I'm just going to quote the source cited below on what this intelligence bill would do, and hopefully common sense will point to flaws this bill would create.
Here we go:

"would expand federal law-enforcement powers and centralize information about private citizens in government databases."--Common Sense says, too much power for one agency/branch. (Information is Power)
"which focuses on the commission's principal recommendations to overhaul intelligence agencies and create the post of national intelligence director."-Start using your own common sense.
"The proposals also appear to expand the amount of personal information on all citizens that states would have to make available to the federal government in return for federal funds."-Duh! Use Common Sense.
For instance, within five years states would have to make available electronically to the federal government birth, death and marriage records and other "vital" personal information on U.S. citizens.------What is that "other 'vital'" information?

---I give up, its not like me writing this is going to do anything in Congress, but maybe it will show how we could end up with a American Gestapo if intelligence information is centralized.


Resource Cited:
(www.house.gov...)
Tenet Critizes Intelligence Bill (www.washingtonpost.com...)

[edit on 2-12-2004 by TheBigD]




posted on Dec, 2 2004 @ 02:18 PM
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That's the goal BigD. A one world government. A powerful government where all other nations will cease to exist. That is the purpose of this bill. Is to help expand a one world government and make the United States the worlds only super power where all other nations will either bow down or die.



posted on Dec, 2 2004 @ 02:54 PM
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I'm suprised there aren't very many responses to this. Sad State of Union in a few years.



posted on Dec, 2 2004 @ 03:21 PM
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I wrote a ATSNN article on the bill after it got passed in the Senate, and was going to be voted upon in the House, October 07.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Below are some older posts on the "9/11 Recommendations Bill", and the Senate's version.

McCain National ID secretly passes senate on Friday
Why is everyone against a national ID?



posted on Dec, 2 2004 @ 03:29 PM
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People have no ambition to do anything about all this. It is ridiculious, or maybe politician have no ambition to listen to what the people want. Either way, its just bad.



posted on Dec, 2 2004 @ 03:53 PM
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Does everyone silently agree or are there no opposing viewpoints, whats with you ATS people not responding to this post yet? I figured something this controversial would get lots of responses.



posted on Dec, 2 2004 @ 10:11 PM
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American Gestapo? Huh, why aren't you getting very many post? You obviously don't know who the Gestapo was and exactly how they operated. So it is centralized? Our public education system has been centralized to a degree by the Department of Education and most people think that it (PE) has gone to sh!t because of it. It's not as if this bill will force the FBI, CIA, NSC, NSA to merge as one unit. What this means is more information goes to federal agencies so that when a "criminal's" background info is needed, they will not have to go from agency to agency.



posted on Dec, 2 2004 @ 10:15 PM
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Originally posted by Frosty
American Gestapo? Huh, why aren't you getting very many post? You obviously don't know who the Gestapo was and exactly how they operated. So it is centralized? Our public education system has been centralized to a degree by the Department of Education and most people think that it (PE) has gone to sh!t because of it. It's not as if this bill will force the FBI, CIA, NSC, NSA to merge as one unit. What this means is more information goes to federal agencies so that when a "criminal's" background info is needed, they will not have to go from agency to agency.




You obviously need to read more about the bill before making comments on its possible usage. I urge you to read more about it.

[edit on 2-12-2004 by TheBigD]



posted on Dec, 2 2004 @ 10:36 PM
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The Geheime Staatspolizei (German for Secret State Police, abbreviated "Gestapo") was formally organized after the Nazi's seized power in 1933. Hermann Gring, the Prussian minister of the interior, detached the espionage and political units of the Prussian police. And staffed them with thousands of Nazis. Gring became the commander of this new force on April 26, 1933. At the same time that Goring was organzing the Gestapo, Heinrich Himmler was directing the SS (Schutzstaffel, German for "Protective Echelon"), Hitler's elite paramilitary corps. In April of 1936 he was given command of the Gestapo as well, integrating all of Germany's police units under Himmler.

Later in 1936, the Gestapo was merged with the Kriminalpolizei (or "Kripo," German for Criminal Police). The newly integrated unit was the called the Sicherheitspolizei (or "Sipo," German for Secret Police). In 1939, during the reorganization of the German armies, the Sipo was joined with an intelligence branch of the military known as the Sicherheitsdienst ("SD," meaning Security Service). After this merger, the Sipo became known as the Reichssicherheitshauptamt ("RHSA," meaning Reich Security Central Office), and was headed by Reinhard Heydrich. Because of these frequent changes, the functions of the Gestapo became blurred, and often overlapped with those of the other branches of the German forces.



posted on Dec, 2 2004 @ 11:15 PM
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Here is what I think of Government:





posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 08:55 AM
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National Police and Secret Police?

America already has both.

No need for more so what is the bill really intended for?

Maybe this bill is a Trojan or maybe a red herring to draw fire and pull the dissent in to the public?

Hard to say- all is guess work at best. Add in McCain's recent ID bill (ATS thread as pointed out by being watched) and America takes yet a few more steps down its ladder of freedom. ( comments as also cited by being watched ])

It is in the nature of government to want information on all citizens. Good or bad the information eventually will be used for reasons it originally was intended for. This is also the nature of government.

To me the real oddity is that all the 'control' laws are coming into effect during the reign of the American political party that supposedly is against such things. The Republican party has beat up the Democrats for decades over these issues. Seems like maybe all that was smoke and mirrors after all?

Under the Republicans- larger military, adventuresome militarism, nationalized Ids and who knows what else, larger bureaucracy, increased intelligence agencies .. .

Weren't all these supposed sign-posts of the Democrats?



posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 09:17 AM
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"would expand federal law-enforcement powers and centralize information about private citizens in government databases."--Common Sense says, too much power for one agency/branch. (Information is Power)


In between it's parading of victims' family members for dramatic effect, the 9/11 Commission touched upon a very valid problem. The different intelligence agencies were doing a pathetic job of sharing information. Information about the hijackers was out there that, if shared, could possibly have helped prevent the attacks. A shrill cry arose from the general public calling for better communication between agencies, and closer working relationships. Now suddenly this is "too much power"?

The term is not "too much power" the term is "let them do their job properly". The US has a multi billion dollar dysfunctional Intelligence community. Some of those changes are necessary to fix the problems and do the job, because the years prior to 9/11 were an outright failure in Intelligence. Making a national intelligence director is necessary, both for performance and accountability. Claims of "no it was their fault, no it was their fault" should not be allowed, and this would stop it.

You want it both ways? They're not allowed to fail because people die, but they're also not allowed to band together to do the job or else they're "too powerful"? How about a realistic alternative then instead of just fear mongering please.

[edit on 12-3-2004 by Djarums]



posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 09:46 AM
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Correct me if I am wrong but the Gestapo never had a bill to make information electronic which is what this bill calls for.



posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 10:21 AM
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If one centralized agency has access to all information on any citizen, then that means they have too much power. Information is power, if one agency is able to direct ALL the intelligence operations and security and information, then they simply have too much power. My thesis is that when one agency has that much power, therefore it in itself is a threat to democracy. Put somebody you know will follow your agenda and then you can control everyone, it drastic but it could happen with such a centralized intelligence warehouse.
Put someone in a position of power within that agency and you could have them dictating all kinds of policies that could adversly affect democracy. Does anyone understand the threat this poses?
We have had one attack by these terrorists, the WTC. I'd say the intelligence community has done pretty dam* good for the past 60 years.



posted on Dec, 3 2004 @ 07:48 PM
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It's begun. Under George W. Bush he imposed several "security" increasing tactics that would be utilized to stall any uprising within the people who opposed this for good reasons. I do agree with you this is a clear violation of checks and balances. Given the recent violations upon our rights as Americans I have created a topic called 'public opinion branch' which would be situated in the government in order to "Check and balance" the branch so these sort of things wouldn't happen. Ever since the Patriot act was signed into office, I sence that there is an agency mingling with the affairs of politics pushing fear in the hands of lawmakers to enforce their wills upon others without rejection. WIth a public opinion branch, things like this would never happen. It's the Nixon administration all over again.



posted on Dec, 5 2004 @ 01:49 PM
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Originally posted by TheBigD
If one centralized agency has access to all information on any citizen, then that means they have too much power. Information is power, if one agency is able to direct ALL the intelligence operations and security and information, then they simply have too much power. My thesis is that when one agency has that much power, therefore it in itself is a threat to democracy. Put somebody you know will follow your agenda and then you can control everyone, it drastic but it could happen with such a centralized intelligence warehouse.
Put someone in a position of power within that agency and you could have them dictating all kinds of policies that could adversly affect democracy. Does anyone understand the threat this poses?
We have had one attack by these terrorists, the WTC. I'd say the intelligence community has done pretty dam* good for the past 60 years.


How is this a threat? So they now know your gender, SS, birth date, criminal background. How does this make them the Gestapo? The Gestapo was a police agency responsible for ceasing and arresting any known or imaginary opposition to the Nazi party? They spied on the people, that is not what the bill calls for, though we have no link to the information of what was in the bill that was passed, so how can anyone state anything about the bill if we cannot receive the links?



posted on Dec, 6 2004 @ 12:07 AM
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Does nobody understand the risk we are putting ourselves at by having this information centralized......and it isn't just SSN numbers, birthdate, etc that they putting in this database.....Quit being cynical jackasses and just think about the risk this poses. Does nobody see the long-term threat this poses to our freedoms, by control being given to a centralized agency/branch........ I *$%#&%* give up on you people. This will be my last post on this cause it is obviously too difficult for many of you to understand/comprehend.
Goodbye.

WAR IS PEACE, FREEDOM IS SLAVERY, IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH.

[edit on 6-12-2004 by TheBigD]



posted on Dec, 9 2004 @ 03:42 AM
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Due to obvious intellectual incompetencies from the reply's posted here, I have chosen to become comfortably numb. Propaganda, Civil Liberties, Politics, etc do not bother me....cause I am now Comfortably Numb.



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