TIME Op-Ed Author Wants White Gay Men To Stop Stealing Black Female Culture

originally posted by: theantediluvian

If I were to speak to Ms. Mannie, I would say something along the lines of:

Get with the f#ing program you sanctimonious racist.

This is "The Problem"...

But only you can change this, as somebody who has created "The Problem" as well as "The Program".

When it comes to the idea of progress... embracing diversity "in culture" sounds nice but it is really just a cover-up for the practice of appropriation.

Ask yourself, what is "popular culture"?

Who is responsible for its definition?

Do these people truly represent the majority that they speak for, or are they paid by those in power to do so?

When the average White american has reached a conclusion, they will start to see the truth... that taking on other people's fights in order to validate their own is not embraced as progress by the majority of their fellow Black americans, male or female, gay or straight, sheep or shepherd.

On that note, when comparing Sierra Mannie's views on separation as a means for sovereignty (ie segregation) to "50s Southerners" you show an extreme lack of understanding and knowledge in regards to the choices made for Black americans in contrast to those made by Black americans.

There's a lot to digest in that last statement so I'll give you a moment to research the works of Marcus Garvey, Angela Davis, Malcom X, Stokely Carmichael, etc. who are all men and women that were uplifted and are still praised by the Black community to this day. Can you guess what their views on the topics of integration, segregation, and cultural enlightenment were?

a reply to: theantediluvian

This lady needs to read up on the history of drag queens.

The modern diva and drag queens have a long history together. Has nothing to do with "white gay men" stealing black women's identities. Has to do with left overs(or possibly current tid bits) from drag culture that spans back further than the 60's. It is a culture that uses "camp" to exaggerate and play upon gender,pop, and general cultural stereotypes.

I assume this is what she's talking about because for the life of me, I can't think of what other group of queers goes around "stealing" anything normally associated with American black culture other than the sassy boys that would have been into the gay and drag scene heavily even 20 years ago(and possibly even now).

Get over it.

www.glbtq.com...

a reply to: prepared4truth

You're bouncing around a bit but I'll do my best to respond.

I have no interest in debating the merits of separatism beyond saying that it's an outmoded concept and I reject it for much the same reasons that I don't play tic tac toe or build sandcastles in the surf or try to unbake a cake. In the same vein, I similarly reject overzealous declarations of cultural appropriation. I'm reminded of well-intentioned but misguided programs of nature conservancy.

I have no interest in "appropriating" anyone's struggle. I'm not even sure how that fits in this context. I'm not a gay white man, but I know a few and I'll be sure to ask if a white gay guy saying, "you go girl" is an effort to identify with the black female experience or if it's done purely because it sounds sassy. I blame Tyler Perry. Actually I don't, but maybe you do. I saw Kendrick Lamar and Macklemore at the same festival. Mull the implications of that over.

The morons at Stormfront are frothing at the mouth with consternation because interracial marriages involving white people have more than tripled since 1980. The far right is afraid that Sharia law is taking over the Midwest states and if we don't build a fence, we'll all be speaking Spanish in a generation or two. Eve married British millionaire Maximillion Cooper last month and they're expecting a child. I'm sure Jill Scott wouldn't approve.

In a bit of synchronicity, there's something on H2 right now about another of those "Ruff Ryders," Teddy Roosevelt.

I'm going to cut this short because I'm ordering "Chinese" food that is likely a dish that originated in America and has never been served in China. The restaurant is owned and staffed by Chinese people who themselves quite possibly don't eat the food on their own menu. I don't know, maybe they're huge fans of pizza. What I do know is that their food is delicious and they're very friendly people who genuinely seem pleased to have my continued patronage. Maybe I should gently inform them that I can't in good conscience accept the fortune cookies they'll no doubt toss in my bag because they were invented in San Francisco using a recipe for Japanese cookies.

Japanese people! Where have the all the Samurai (bushi?) gone? Keanu Reeves has a grandmother who is Chinese and Hawaiian — so not even Japanese. I wonder if MacArthur was aware of the fact that new rulers confiscating swords was a time honored tradition?

It seems to me she is totally correct about how our white culture incorporates black culture all the time. The loose fitting jeans trend in all likelihood started with poor kids that couldn't afford a pair that would fit properly, so they hung down. Things like that became associated with black culture that became a fashion style imitated by white youths and then capitalized on by big business. The black people are sensitive to that and try hard to do things differently than the whites, even to the point of doing the opposite, like wearing pants backwards or opening a pack of smokes from the bottom, etc.

Of course, where are the whites kids to turn to when our white culture is held in such contempt and the other cultures are held in such high esteem? The blacks should feel proud to have such an influence and not take it as stealing their culture as quickly as they can develop it.

originally posted by: theantediluvian
a reply to: prepared4truth

I have no interest in debating the merits of separatism beyond saying that it's an outmoded concept and I reject it for much the same reasons that I don't play tic tac toe or build sandcastles in the surf or try to unbake a cake. In the same vein, I similarly reject overzealous declarations of cultural appropriation. I'm reminded of well-intentioned but misguided programs of nature conservancy.

It is funny yet sadly disturbing that you compare the forced integration of an enslaved people with nowhere else to go to "baking a cake". (The Cake is a Lie)

The premeditated murder of millions of Native Americans and hundreds of years of free labor through the enslavement of Africans is what built these sandcastles...

The waters of change will eventually wipe them away somehow or another.

I can understand why somebody who is not Black would not be interested in the merits of "misguided Black people" leaving America... it would be most beneficial for Black people and that's why Black leaders who have suggested it have all been murdered.

Murdered because of a mentality that "we know what's best for you when you don't"

The same mode of thinking that allows international bankers to justify the infiltration taking place daily all over Africa and throughout the Middle East; to them it is no more than a game.

I have no interest in "appropriating" anyone's struggle. I'm not even sure how that fits in this context. I'm not a gay white man, but I know a few and I'll be sure to ask if a white gay guy saying, "you go girl" is an effort to identify with the black female experience or if it's done purely because it sounds sassy. I blame Tyler Perry. Actually I don't, but maybe you do. I saw Kendrick Lamar and Macklemore at the same festival. Mull the implications of that over.

How can you speak so freely for a group you don't belong to? Once again, this is "The Problem".

You can ask a White gay guy these questions until you are blue in the face... if they have done their research, they will validate the idea of sass in the LGBT community as a subconscious appropriation of Black culture, or will at least admit that they are very closely connected.

If not, they may sarcastically say "Yeezy taught me."

When it comes to the parasitic effects of appropriation on the mental and physical well-being of Black people , I look to no specific person for blame.

Instead, I continue to glare at the original problem and how Black people have been routinely cut off from exploring solutions by people such as yourself.

In my eyes, the main difference is that they have the power to enforce this mentality you share.

The morons at Stormfront are frothing at the mouth with consternation because interracial marriages involving white people have more than tripled since 1980. The far right is afraid that Sharia law is taking over the Midwest states and if we don't build a fence, we'll all be speaking Spanish in a generation or two. Eve married British millionaire Maximillion Cooper last month and they're expecting a child. I'm sure Jill Scott wouldn't approve.

I like that you brought up interracial marriage.

However regardless of my opinion on interracial marriage, this is not "The Problem".

Whether a White woman wants to marry Black men or even other White women, is not my concern.

I welcome it.

I would just like to see Black people treat themselves like the royalty they are.



P.S. Tyler Perry was not uplifted by nor praised in large part by the conscious Black community.There is actually a large debate going on about his portrayal of Black females.

Oh come on. Someone go ahead & call it like it is. No? Fine, I will.

She's having a hissy fit because the more flamboyant end of the gay community is doing some "cultural" things better (for the lack of a more apt word) than the black community is (is an exaggerated head bob or eye roll really cultural? WTH?) One of the things that sticks out most is that the flamboyant gays have the head bobble thing down to a science, and they (black community) know it. And the flamboyant bright clothing, too. Although, drag queens pull the looks off far better, IMO. Just personal opinion. Sorry honey, you don't own any of the color spectrum, let alone the concept of attire. God forbid some things as banal as those be a "better fit" with, or "aced" by another group. She needs to get over herself.

Long story short: She's jealous. Oh well, as everyone says, haters gonna hate.