Philosophy of the Body

a reply to: Aphorism

A shift in perspective is what I'm asking for.

Regarding what? And I'm not sure there's a shift in perspective I can provide that you haven't already found without leaving the country.

a reply to: AfterInfinity

Regarding what? And I'm not sure there's a shift in perspective I can provide that you haven't already found without leaving the country.

It appears you understand. Our bodies are the perspective from which we always view. All that is required of a shift in perspective is to look somewhere else.

originally posted by: Aphorism

Many ideas can be held at one time.

And just to clarify, the subconscious is the part of the body where ideas and personalities that it cannot force its attention upon (at the time) is held? Like a waiting room for personalities?

a reply to: BlueMule

And just to clarify, the subconscious is the part of the body where ideas and personalities that it cannot force its attention upon (at the time) is held? Like a waiting room for personalities?

It's not a part of the body; it is the body. What the word is meant to denote is the properties and functions of the body we are unaware of at any given time.

originally posted by: Aphorism
a reply to: BlueMule

And just to clarify, the subconscious is the part of the body where ideas and personalities that it cannot force its attention upon (at the time) is held? Like a waiting room for personalities?

It's not a part of the body; it is the body. What the word is meant to denote is the properties and functions of the body we are unaware of at any given time.

So belief can push the body to switch between different points of view and ideas about itself in order to exploit a placebo effect?

a reply to: BlueMule

So belief can push the body to switch between different points of view and ideas about itself in order to exploit a placebo effect?

I don't think switching different viewpoints is possible, but altering one's own way of thinking and one's own ontology is. And no I'm not sure why one switches between personalities, but the placebo effect and hypnotism show that belief is strong enough to alter the body. If one believes he is his personality, the rest of the body might just play along.

This is all conjecture of course.

originally posted by: Aphorism
a reply to: BlueMule

So belief can push the body to switch between different points of view and ideas about itself in order to exploit a placebo effect?

I don't think switching different viewpoints is possible, but altering one's own way of thinking and one's own ontology is. And no I'm not sure why one switches between personalities, but the placebo effect and hypnotism show that belief is strong enough to alter the body. If one believes he is his personality, the rest of the body might just play along.

This is all conjecture of course.

Of course! But surely you must see the difficulties. Belief and hypnotism are variables that must be accounted for in the lab. So they must be accounted for in philosophy. They aren't quite the same variable as the body, because they push the body, to use your words.

Switching viewpoints is indeed possible! Your viewpoint can "leave" your "body". That is a "spirit". It can "Mind-Meld" with another body, to use a Star Trek Vulcan mysticism reference.

So, your belief-system and your state of consciousness are variables that can influence the outcome of a medical treatment, a scientific experiment, or a hot date. You can't just checkmark 'The Body' on a list of variables and expect your experiment to control all the variables that can influence the outcome of an experiment.

a reply to: BlueMule

That is true. But the body can also push itself. I would say they are the same variable insofar as the body is where they are manifest.

If we look at was is being hypnotized or what is believing a belief, it is the body. However, environmental factors play just as much a role as that which finds itself within a certain environment. Belief systems and states of consciousness may alter to reflect environmental changes in order to adapt to the situation, but this is all according to the circumstances the body finds itself in. I would still describe the source of hypnotism and the source of beliefs as the body, however, as different bodies are more or less susceptible to hypnotism, and more or less willing to believe a belief. In the end, the onus is on the body whether it will be hypnotized or whether it will believe a belief.

a reply to: Aphorism

OK, but let's not get ahead of ourselves. Your philosophy of the body is taking some gambles. It doesn't matter if the body can push itself too. What matters is that the body can be pushed by belief. That gives us something to work with. How far can belief push the body?

What if belief can push you right out of yourself?

The Evisceration of the Body by Bodies

Descartes sat in an oven (yes, an oven) wearing his evening gown and imagined that he was of two substances: a material and a thinking substance. Thus dualism and modern philosophy was born. Yet at no point during this rational endeavour did Descartes fracture into these two substances, as he still nonetheless remained in an oven wearing his evening gown.

The famed Francis Crick in his paradigm altering book The Astonishing Hypothesis, asserted that “a person’s mental activities are entirely due to the behaviour of nerve cells, glial cells, and the atoms, ions and molecules that make them up and influence them”. His collaborator, neuroscientist Christof Koch developed the Neural Correlates of Consciousness (NCC), which “constitute the minimal set of neuronal events and mechanisms sufficient for a specific conscious percept”. In other words, the mind and consciousness are either the effect of, or identical to, the brain. In philosophy, it is known as the Identity theory of mind.

But let’s observe this notion in its simplest form. If we were to hold a brain in our hands, would we also say it was conscious or a mind? If the mind is identical to the brain, then surely we are holding a mind in our hands. But this seems counter-intuitive, and it begs another question: where does the brain end and the rest of the body begin?

We are fairly certain a brain detached from the body can no longer think, just like the eyes detached from the body can no longer see, or a hand detached from the arm can no longer grasp. Just the brain, or rather, the brain on its own, is not identical to the mind or consciousness, for virtue of the fact that a brain on its own does not think nor is it conscious. Therefor, the mind and consciousness is not identical to the brain. Only when a brain is attached to the neural network, which is in turn attached to the skeletal system, which supports and protects the circulatory, endocrine, digestive and respiratory systems of the body, wrapped in the surface layer of muscle, tendons and skin, and thrown into a bodily existence as a living being, is a mind and consciousness ever available. Hence, the mind and consciousness is identical to the body. States of consciousness and states of mind are states of the body.

This can go the other way. If we were to remove the skin of a patient, and if we were to keep him alive, we can infer that he will develop no new memories, no new experiences and no new ideas from where his skin used to be. That part of his “mind” is gone. He’ll feel no touch of a lover, no pleasure, no cool breeze, no hot nor cold and all such ideas and notions will disappear with his somatosenses, and he would have to rely on the memory of when he did have that skin to develop any thought about them. Such as with the man born blind from birth – he will never develop an idea of colour, shape, geometry, and movement as someone with fully functioning vision will. These concepts and thoughts never appear where his sight might have, but didn’t.

Only the body can grasp, only the body can see and only the body can think. Only when the body remains whole and un-eviscerated, can we comprehend a mind.

a reply to: BlueMule

What if belief can push you right out of yourself?

Then one believes he pushed himself right out of himself. Perhaps not a good answer.

Can you clarify what you mean by belief? There is an ongoing debate between philosophers whether beliefs even exist or not.

originally posted by: Aphorism
a reply to: BlueMule

What if belief can push you right out of yourself?

Then one believes he pushed himself right out of himself. Perhaps not a good answer.

Can you clarify what you mean by belief? There is an ongoing debate between philosophers whether beliefs even exist or not.

I mean just a variable. It can make a difference in science through the experimenter effect, because our beliefs can surface in very subtle ways. And of course it can make a difference in health. And a hot date.

What if belief actually can push you out of yourself, where you can influence the physical, concrete world we all know and love? Then it means your concept of the body has to be expanded. And with it, your body's idea of what you are.

a reply to: BlueMule

What if belief actually can push you out of yourself, where you can influence the physical, concrete world we all know and love? Then it means your concept of the body has to be expanded. And with it, your body's idea of what you are.

Are you meaning to say our creations? ie. our words, art and works? Or something different?

a reply to: Aphorism
Placebo Effect is Miraculous and that in perspective to treating Cancer or any other Disease.

Understand that the mechanisms of the body from the conservative stance cannot heal itself, because it believes it can.


Any thoughts?

originally posted by: Aphorism
a reply to: BlueMule

What if belief actually can push you out of yourself, where you can influence the physical, concrete world we all know and love? Then it means your concept of the body has to be expanded. And with it, your body's idea of what you are.

Are you meaning to say our creations? ie. our words, art and works? Or something different?

No, but it does include artistic inspiration.

No, I mean to say that the borders of your body don't begin and end where you think they do. There are parts of human nature, of which we are mostly unaware, that reach outside of our skin. This is of course a testable empirical claim I am making here, and the outcome, either way, has an impact on metaphysics.

a reply to: Kashai

Placebo Effect is Miraculous and that in perspective to treating Cancer or any other Disease.

Understand that the mechanisms o the body from the conservative stance cannot heal itself, because it believes it can.

Any thoughts?

One must expect the results to be positive, for positive results. The opposite happens in the negative fashion. I don't know too much about it, but according to the wikipedia article, the expectation mixed with conditioning produces the results.

In the same vein, stress, depression etc. can have disastrous effects on the body.

a reply to: BlueMule

No, I mean to say that the borders of your body don't begin and end where you think they do. There are parts of human nature, of which we are mostly unaware, that reach outside of our skin. This is of course a testable empirical claim I am making here, and the outcome, either way, has an impact on metaphysics.

Would you provide an example? Maybe an aura or magnetic field?

I mean all the dust we see in our houses is from our body, yet I wouldn't call it our body.

a reply to: BlueMule

I must leave, perhaps to return later. Otherwise, have a good weekend.

a reply to: Aphorism

Explain such a potential biologically from the conservative stance?

Explain to me how it is possible for a human being to disrupt a genetic mutation that has resulted in Cancer?

This by simply wishing it away due to a belief?

Provide me with a biological explanation based upon your paradigm?

Any thoughts?

Music break!!!!