It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

An Eye Opening Look At Israel's Ugly History

page: 7
83
<< 4  5  6    8  9  10 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jul, 11 2014 @ 02:26 PM
link   

originally posted by: Freenrgy2
The Mtyh of the Palestinians


Wrong.

In 1099, Palestine fell to the Crusaders, but in 1291 they in turn were routed by the Mamluks.

There are NO excuses.








edit on 7/11/2014 by ~Lucidity because: (no reason given)




posted on Jul, 11 2014 @ 03:15 PM
link   
The Israeli's have one of the most sophisticated military machines in the world.

What kind of military do the Palestinians have? They have no actual army to speak of, nor tanks or armoured bulldozers to demolish homes with. They do not have an airforce with fighter jets to launch air strikes upon Israeli infrastructure, they do not have a missile defense system to shoot down incoming projectiles.

What they do have is some rockets. Rockets can be very destructive and kill easily, but again can be countered somewhat by the Iron Dome missile defense system. The comparison that Palestine poses an actual "threat" to the state of Israel is to me a huge fallacy. The Palestinian rocket attacks are but pin pricks to the Israeli hammer strikes. That's not to negate the Israeli lives that have been lost to Palestinian rockets, but militarily the Israelis and Palestinians are not comparable.

You can see from the statistics in this latest conflict that Palestinian deaths far outrank Israelis. There have been 105 Palestinian deaths and no Israeli deaths.

This article posted today said 100 Palestinians, but it has since risen and no doubt will rise again. Consider the four photographs in the middle of the article especially the top one and then the bottom one.



posted on Jul, 11 2014 @ 03:16 PM
link   

originally posted by: MALBOSIA

originally posted by: demus

thank you for the thread, it is very important information and proof.

I would like to add this map for the illustration of ghettoizing Palestinians.



Vancouver's Translink (regional transit authority) pasted that map you posted on a lot of bus stops around the GVRD area and HOLY COW, did the Israeli lobby get all butt hurt over it. They cannot stand it when people get access to information outside their control. It is sooo pathetic how they van't face the truth or do anything moral about the subject. Just ban and subdue is their only tactic.


What business is it of Vancouver transit to engage in a propaganda war? Canadian tax money intended for transit should not be spent on propaganda. Not backing Palestine or Israel here, but whoever made that decision should be fired.

and yes, I would say the same thing if it was pro-Israel propaganda.



posted on Jul, 11 2014 @ 03:19 PM
link   
a reply to: buster2010
Are you forgetting that there was a war 1967? Well, that unprovoked attack on Israel gave them every right to take what they wanted considering the circumstances. You should look at maps showing how much land they have given to their enemies for free. Which is too my knowledge the only country which can claim doing so, which makes the gesture that much more significant considering they are miniscule. But then again, the hate of Israel has nothing to do with humanitarian critiques. If that were so, why does everyone that disagrees with Israel, a majority coming from the left to far left want another state that will probably outlaw homosexuality and be just as violent and barren as all the other countries under Islamic control?

Which clearly shows the concern is not for the people but the furthering of the agenda to take Israel over. Because you chose a dated map simply because it would play to the lie you are either a victim of or intentionally propagating, I'll show you something that's much more recent, which also counters the basis of your hatred supposedly.



But do me a favor, when you say "do you think they gave it away because they didn't need it?" Well ironically Israel did just that. Secondly, if you can show me any real proof that "Palestine" has a legitimate historical claim to the land, I might be swayed. But unfortunately it's not even a real country historically or presently. Unless you think states/provinces created by empires that were only there as conquerors counts.



posted on Jul, 11 2014 @ 03:27 PM
link   
a reply to: hxc408




Are you forgetting that there was a war 1967? Well, that unprovoked attack on Israel gave them every right to take what they wanted considering the circumstances.



Guess you missed this quote from Menachem Begin.....



Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin acknowledged in a speech in 1982 that its war on Egypt in 1956 was a war of “choice” and that, “In June 1967 we again had a choice. The Egyptian army concentrations in the Sinai approaches do not prove that Nasser was really about to attack us. We must be honest with ourselves. We decided to attack him.”



Israel attacked its neighbour.



posted on Jul, 11 2014 @ 03:38 PM
link   
a reply to: hxc408


It is often claimed that Israel’s attack on Egypt that began the June 1967 “Six Day War” was a “preemptive” one. Implicit in that description is the notion that Israel was under imminent threat of an attack from Egypt. Yet this historical interpretation of the war is not sustained by the documentary record. The President of Egypt, then known as the United Arab Republic (UAR), Gamal Abdel Nasser, later conveyed to U.S. President Lyndon Johnson that his troop buildup in the Sinai Peninsula prior to the war had been to defend against a feared Israeli attack. Israel's June 5, 1967 surprise attack on Egypt resulted in the obliteration of Egypt's air force while most of its planes were still on the ground. Israel's June 5, 1967 surprise attack on Egypt resulted in the obliteration of Egypt's air force while most of its planes were still on the ground. In a meeting with Nasser, Johnson’s special envoy to the UAR, Robert B. Anderson, expressed U.S. puzzlement over why he had massed troops in the Sinai, to which Nasser replied, “Whether you believe it or not, we were in fear of an attack from Israel. We had been informed that the Israelis were massing troops on the Syrian border with the idea of first attacking Syria, there they did not expect to meet great resistance, and then commence their attack on the UAR.” Anderson then told Nasser “that it was unfortunate the UAR had believed such reports, which were simply not in accordance with the facts”, to which Nasser responded that his information had come from reliable sources (presumably referring to intelligence information passed along by the USSR). Nasser added that “your own State Department called in my Ambassador to the U.S. in April or May and warned him that there were rumors that there might be a conflict between Israel and the UAR.” U.S. intelligence had indeed foreseen the coming war. “The CIA was right about the timing, duration, and outcome of the war”, notes David S. Robarge in an article available on the CIA’s website.



The current Israeli Ambassador to the U.S., Michael B. Oren, acknowledged in his book “Six Days of War“, widely regarded as the definitive account of the war, that “By all reports Israel received from the Americans, and according to its own intelligence, Nasser had no interest in bloodshed”.



In the Israeli view, “Nasser would have to be deranged” to attack Israel first, and war “could only come about if Nasser felt he had complete military superiority over the IDF, if Israel were caught up in a domestic crisis, and, most crucially, was isolated internationally–a most unlikely confluence” (pp. 59-60). Four days before Israel’s attack on Egypt, Helms met with a senior Israeli official who expressed Israel’s intent to go to war, and that the only reason it hadn’t already struck was because of efforts by the Johnson administration to restrain both sides to prevent a violent conflict.



“Helms was awakened at 3:00 in the morning on 5 June by a call from the CIA Operations Center”, which had received the report “that Israel had launched its attack” and that, contrary to Israel’s claims that Egypt had been the aggressor, Israel had fired first.



Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin acknowledged in a speech in 1982 that its war on Egypt in 1956 was a war of “choice” and that, “In June 1967 we again had a choice. The Egyptian army concentrations in the Sinai approaches do not prove that Nasser was really about to attack us. We must be honest with ourselves. We decided to attack him.”


That is from the mouth of Israel's own government, so no they were not attacked but actually were the aggressors. They didn't give anything back to anyone they illegally invaded hence why they "gave it back". They had zero claim to the land, just like they had zero claim to the land they where already occupying. People that moved from Europe and stole "what God promised" them.

www.foreignpolicyjournal.com...
edit on 11-7-2014 by sosobad because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 11 2014 @ 03:46 PM
link   

originally posted by: Freenrgy2
a reply to: rustyclutch

What's funny about your support of terrorist nations?


Anyone who uses violence for political or religious reasons is a terrorist. That makes every participant in every war that has ever been fought terrorists. Including Israelis. The list of U.N. condemnations is just an account of the acts of terrorism that were proven. Many more are suspected. Maybe I should just come live in your house. I'll start off on the couch. Given enough time I'll put YOU on the couch and sleep in YOUR bed. Then I'll call you a terrorist for being mad about it.



posted on Jul, 11 2014 @ 03:52 PM
link   
a reply to: sosobad
Ok, I stand corrected that they were fighting offensively. But I still asked you about Palestine and all you mentioned were Syria and Egypt, you know the countries that actually exist. So, though I learned that Israel went on the offensive, I believe they had a great reason for doing so, if you look at it from a perspective of continuity of the State of Israel. The bigger their borders are, the further the rockets are from populated areas and important infrastructure. So though I never condone war, I have to admit creating Palestine is the last thing this unstable world needs. I know that was a bit of a tangent but you only corrected me on the smallest issue of the things I brought up.

Wow 2 people both got on me for the 1967 war but no one has yet to answer any of the truly important issues I brought up. And the only reason I believe it is because Israel even admitted it, otherwise I know the source would be some lame website with a clear agenda, bias and spin. So forgive me for not believing everything that is inside quotation marks until I do some research of my own.


edit on 11-7-2014 by hxc408 because: Some people think Quotes make the statement within infallible

edit on 11-7-2014 by hxc408 because: typo



posted on Jul, 11 2014 @ 03:56 PM
link   

originally posted by: abe froman
Canadian tax money intended for transit should not be spent on propaganda. Not backing Palestine or Israel here, but whoever made that decision should be fired. and yes, I would say the same thing if it was pro-Israel propaganda.

Would you say the same if you were told that it was paid to the transit authority? They run paid ads on the sides of buses, eh?



posted on Jul, 11 2014 @ 04:09 PM
link   
a reply to: hxc408



Ok, I stand corrected that they were fighting defensively.


Read the entire article from the link, not defensive, they amassed troops first, they struck first, they invaded the land. A war of aggression plain and simple




I have to admit creating Palestine is the last thing this unstable world needs.


Why? They are human beings that just want to be treated as such, not segregated and have their lands taken for settlements that have no right being there, if Israel can exist as a state why can't Palestine?




I know that was a bit of a tangent but you only corrected me on the smallest issue of the things I brought up.


Ok I take a stab at the rest



If that were so, why does everyone that disagrees with Israel, a majority coming from the left to far left want another state that will probably outlaw homosexuality and be just as violent and barren as all the other countries under Islamic control


That is just a bold face lie, I personally come from a country that condemns Israels actions, it is not an Islamic state and is very tolerant to homosexuality, the Palestinians want to live live every other normal person in this world but are being stopped by Israel, blockaded from food, water and medical supplies, Israel is making Palestine violent and barren.



Because you chose a dated map simply because it would play to the lie you are either a victim of or intentionally propagating


And you have done the exact same thing, your map shows what land that Israel illegally invaded under false pretenses



But do me a favor, when you say "do you think they gave it away because they didn't need it?" Well ironically Israel did just that.


They gave it back because it was illegal to keep it.



Secondly, if you can show me any real proof that "Palestine" has a legitimate historical claim to the land, I might be swayed


And what historical claim did a bunch of Europeans have to that land? Besides a book that for all we know could be a fairytale, "God promised us the land" is the biggest BS ever. Show me proof of that and I might be swayed



Unless you think states/provinces created by empires that were only there as conquerors counts.


You mean Israel yes? Because that is exactly what the US and UK done after WW2.

edit on 11-7-2014 by sosobad because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 11 2014 @ 04:10 PM
link   
a reply to: hxc408

how about Israel?

was the state of Israel in its form and structure what the world needed back than?

what is "the continuity" of Israel?

based on your logic we should be making some new countries yearly based on where some still existing ethnic religious minorities were ruling the land.

would it do any good?



posted on Jul, 11 2014 @ 04:20 PM
link   

originally posted by: abe froman

originally posted by: MALBOSIA

originally posted by: demus

thank you for the thread, it is very important information and proof.

I would like to add this map for the illustration of ghettoizing Palestinians.



Vancouver's Translink (regional transit authority) pasted that map you posted on a lot of bus stops around the GVRD area and HOLY COW, did the Israeli lobby get all butt hurt over it. They cannot stand it when people get access to information outside their control. It is sooo pathetic how they van't face the truth or do anything moral about the subject. Just ban and subdue is their only tactic.


What business is it of Vancouver transit to engage in a propaganda war? Canadian tax money intended for transit should not be spent on propaganda. Not backing Palestine or Israel here, but whoever made that decision should be fired.

and yes, I would say the same thing if it was pro-Israel propaganda.


They didn't claim anything. They just posted the pictures of how the maps changed over a period of time.

Truth is the truth. Make of it what you will. Are you saying the maps are inaccurate?

And since toy mention it, what business is it of the Canadian government to weigh in on the subject on behalf of Canadians.

Your argument doesn't have a leg to stand on. I'm embarrassed for you.



posted on Jul, 11 2014 @ 04:26 PM
link   
a reply to: sapien82


The Israeli government need to be removed immediately



I have asked my PCS union representative to address this issue with PCS board of directors to organise a national workers strike for immediate intervention in Israel to stop the genocide and end this aggressive regime.


The things you are able to write without feeling either extremely embarrassed or shameful is a great example of how scary it is when blind people think they understand an issue, and are also willing to make a fool out of themselves not only on ATS but even with his employer by organizing a strike over the situation? Do you know how absurd that is? Not only would no one in the world care about your strike, including all your colleagues which would only resent you if you could somehow pull it off. But you are so passionate about supporting a group of violent people that would have no qualms about beheading you or any of your loved ones. I know there are two sides to every story, but when the mainstream media is pushing this Anti-Israeli propaganda I know for damn sure that's because they want you to feel that way because it works in their favor. So I suggest you either do some real research on your own and if your common sense and mental faculties are intact, I would imagine you will have a change of heart. If not, since you are so passionate, why not go to Gaza and join Hamas because you clearly can not live in a world in which a pseudo-nation doesn't have enough land or rockets to effectively do any significant damage to Israel. So as they say man up or shut up

-----------------------------------------------------------------------



That is just a bold face lie, I personally come from a country that condemns Israels actions, it is not an Islamic state and is very tolerant to homosexuality, the Palestinians want to live live every other normal person in this world but are being stopped by Israel, blockaded from food, water and medical supplies, Israel is making Palestine violent and barren.


Notice I said under Islamic control.



And you have done the exact same thing, your map shows what land that Israel illegally invaded under false pretenses


It isn't the same thing at all. He said Israel was land grabbing. Well maybe in 1967, but that's what happens when you win wars. And that map was not just a map I chose to make Israel look good, as it is current and true. I'm not sure if you understand this but, once land is taken for whatever reason it is very rare for the country that seized it to give it up. For free nonetheless. But the problem is, the land which was taken was never taken from Palestine, as it isn't a real country so I am wondering how do these people have any more claim to Gaza than anyone else in the world? We both know Egypt and Syria were the countries that lost the War of 1967, so where exactly does "Palestine" get involved in this whole issue? Do you know they consider their capital to be Jerusalem? That goes to show the type of personalities that are behind this unbelievably stupid fallacy. So, yes while they are people, no they absolutely do not deserve their own country and they should go back to their country of origin if they aren't in exile. But I say Palestine is the last thing the world needs because they are so bad at diplomacy they could never run a country and secondly because the first thing they would do is try to unite all Islamic nations to create an alliance and attack Israel which would probably create WW3. There is no way giving a bunch of violent people a soverign state by using land from Israel, a very successful country with a high average life expectancy, the most college grads per capita, and I could go on but lets just say one of the very few countries in the region that actually contribute positively to the world. Just so we can have another incompetent slum of a country which would offer those in Gaza a much worse quality of life than that which Israel offers them. That is if they would stop shooting their rockets which is only hurting their own people. If they are going to continue on they might as well aim the rockets at their own houses.
edit on 11-7-2014 by hxc408 because: More to questions to answer



posted on Jul, 11 2014 @ 04:30 PM
link   
a reply to: TheAlmo

The problem is not Israel or the Palestinians. The problem is a flaw in human consciousness that allows many different groups the world over to think that they have more right to exist than others. That the "other" is somehow less human or less important than we are. And if your version of the bearded guy in the clouds is on YOUR side, all the more fuel for your rationalization. THIS is the problem and its a GLOBAL problem and its for large part in all of us to some degree. When we can see other human beings AS human beings and as having as much right to be here as we do, then we can have change. And ALL sides everywhere have to adapt this truth for their ever to be a chance of peace. I personally think we will never do it. our brains are too reptilian for us to last long enough before we turn the planet into ashes. But its ok, because if we destroy ourselves, maybe we deserve to be destroyed, and not scattered among the stars.



posted on Jul, 11 2014 @ 05:15 PM
link   
a reply to: sosobad



They gave it back because it was illegal to keep it.


Who was going to make them? All Western countries have not only done the same but on scales that make 1967 look like childs play.




And what historical claim did a bunch of Europeans have to that land? Besides a book that for all we know could be a fairytale, "God promised us the land" is the biggest BS ever. Show me proof of that and I might be swayed


Since when did Jews come from Europe and how does a Nation which fought with Canaan thousands of years ago for the land have to justify anything to anyone about their legitimacy. I see how you tried to throw one below the belt by calling the Bible a fairytale. Nice one. But unfortunately you can't call archeology a fairytale and it proves who was there first.




You mean Israel yes? Because that is exactly what the US and UK done after WW2.


No, I am not shortsighted when it comes to these types of issues so I was referring more to like the Babylonian, Roman, Alexandrian, Greeks, and so on. These empires are where the name Palestine even comes from, though it was never just simply called Palestine. And I believe that name was created because it was supposed to be a slap in the face to the jews because I believe it has a reference to one of their most hated enemies. You sure didn't bring anything to the table which is to be expected from an automaton that jumps on a bandwagon trying to ruin a perfectly productive Nation so we can replace it with a slum filled with violent fanatics.


TO DEMUS:


was the state of Israel in its form and structure what the world needed back than?


Being that they are surrounded by people who hate Jews and were recently traumatized by the Holocaust? I'm sure they thought so. And the word continuity means to continue, so in this case so that they could ensure that Israel would last and have a future. Before I address your next point, I think its once again important to mention how callous you are to their suffering in the Holocaust. Which it does seem like there is a correlation between support of Hamas and a tangible disdain for Jewish people. So in this case I see it as a completely legitimate reason to allow the creation of Israel in the aftermath of WW2, as it ensured the Jewish people that they would never be without a homeland.




based on your logic we should be making some new countries yearly based on where some still existing ethnic religious minorities were ruling the land.


I have no idea where you came up with that because I never said anything to that effect. But it is funny to see everyone who argues against me with terrible arguments gets stars though most my points have yet to be countered. Everyone hates someone who tells the truth.





edit on 11-7-2014 by hxc408 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 11 2014 @ 05:28 PM
link   
a reply to: hxc408




Notice I said under Islamic control.


And notice I said that this is happening because of Israel already



It isn't the same thing at all. He said Israel was land grabbing. Well maybe in 1967, but that's what happens when you win wars. And that map was not just a map I chose to make Israel look good, as it is current and true. I'm not sure if you understand this but, once land is taken for whatever reason it is very rare for the country that seized it to give it up. For free nonetheless


They gave back the land because they knew they didn't stand a chance of keeping it, not because they got a warm fuzzy feeling in their hearts, they knew it wouldn't fly with the international community to try and keep it.




But the problem is, the land which was taken was never taken from Palestine, as it isn't a real country



Either was Israel until people from the other side of the world decided it was.




so I am wondering how do these people have any more claim to Gaza than anyone else in the world?


What claim does Israel have to their land????



We both know Egypt and Syria were the countries that lost the War of 1967, so where exactly does "Palestine" get involved in this whole issue? Do you know they consider their capital to be Jerusalem? That goes to show the type of personalities that are behind this unbelievably stupid fallacy. So, yes while they are people, no they absolutely do not deserve their own country and they should go back to their country of origin if they aren't in exile.


You can tell the Europeans living on the land to go home too, as far as I can see the Palestinian are descendants of the people who actually lived on that land



But I say Palestine is the last thing the world needs because they are so bad at diplomacy they could never run a country and secondly because the first thing they would do is try to unite all Islamic nations to create an alliance and attack Israel which would probably create WW3.


They seemed to be doing ok before a bunch of Europeans showed up and said they owned the land and secondly where is your proof that that would happen? Hearsay and conjecture



There is no way giving a bunch of violent people a soverign state by using land from Israel,


Already happened when Israel was formed in 1948



a very successful country with a high average life expectancy, the most college grads per capita, and I could go on but lets just say one of the very few countries in the region that actually contribute positively to the world


Ah yes a very successful apartheid state that blockades food water and medicine from children and then goes on to bomb said children to death, a state that rounds up African immigrants into detention centers, a state that has undeclared nuclear weapons and refuses to sign up to the non nuclear proliferation treaty.



Just so we can have another incompetent slum of a country which would offer those in Gaza a much worse quality of life than that which Israel offers them.


The biggest joke of a statement I have heard on ATS, since when does Israel give Palestine a quality of life?



That is if they would stop shooting their rockets which is only hurting their own people. If they are going to continue on they might as well aim the rockets at their own houses.


No need, Israel is doing a fine job of killing innocent children all by themselves.

ETA Anyway I sick of replying off topic, this thread is about Israels condemnations from the international community, if you feel the need to discuss what you are talking about make a thread about it. This ain't the place
edit on 11-7-2014 by sosobad because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 11 2014 @ 05:29 PM
link   
Think......................

George F. Kennan, the State Department’s Director of Policy Planning, issued a top-secret document on January 19, 1947 that outlined the enormous damage done to the US by the partition plan (“Report by the Policy Planning Staff on Position of the United States with Respect to Palestine”).
Kennan cautioned that “important U.S. oil concessions and air base rights” could be lost through US support for partition and warned that the USSR stood to gain by the partition plan.
Kermit Roosevelt, Teddy Roosevelt’s nephew and a legendary intelligence agent, was another who was deeply disturbed by events, noting:

“The process by which Zionist Jews have been able to promote American support for the partition of Palestine demonstrates the vital need of a foreign policy based on national rather than partisan interests... Only when the national interests of the United States, in their highest terms, take precedence over all other considerations, can a logical, farseeing foreign policy be evolved. No American political leader has the right to compromise American interests to gain partisan votes...”
He went on:

“The present course of world crisis will increasingly force upon Americans the realization that their national interests and those of the proposed Jewish state in Palestine are going to conflict. It is to be hoped that American Zionists and non-Zionists alike will come to grips with the realities of the problem.”
The head of the State Department’s Division of Near Eastern Affairs, Gordon P. Merriam, warned against the partition plan on moral grounds:

“U.S. support for partition of Palestine as a solution to that problem can be justified only on the basis of Arab and Jewish consent. Otherwise we should violate the principle of self-determination which has been written into the Atlantic Charter, the declaration of the United Nations, and the United Nations Charter–a principle that is deeply embedded in our foreign policy. Even a United Nations determination in favor of partition would be, in the absence of such consent, a stultification and violation of UN’s own charter.”

Merriam added that without consent, “bloodshed and chaos” would follow, a tragically accurate prediction.
An internal State Department memorandum accurately predicted how Israel would be born through armed aggression masked as defense:

“...the Jews will be the actual aggressors against the Arabs. However, the Jews will claim that they are merely defending the boundaries of a state which were traced by the UN...In the event of such Arab outside aid the Jews will come running to the Security Council with the claim that their state is the object of armed aggression and will use every means to obscure the fact that it is their own armed aggression against the Arabs inside which is the cause of Arab counter-attack.”

www.ifamericansknew.org...

If we turn of the incessant voice of reason and activate our logic instead of subjective egos, then, we may begin, to see the emerging rationale, that our egotistical subordinate minds fail to recognize, that IS Belief holds all humanity to date to the irrational choice of self destruction.



posted on Jul, 11 2014 @ 05:41 PM
link   
a reply to: rustyclutch

Go ahead, believe your crap. I can call people names as well.
But don't try to pass off so-called palestine as this innocent group of people who just got kicked off the couch.

Bad analogy and bad reasoning.



posted on Jul, 11 2014 @ 05:42 PM
link   
a reply to: ~Lucidity

100% false. Obviously this is a hate Israel thread, so I'm asking the mods to close it.

Either that, or I'm leaving ATS.
edit on 11-7-2014 by Freenrgy2 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 11 2014 @ 05:44 PM
link   

originally posted by: Freenrgy2
a reply to: ~Lucidity

100% false. Obviously this is a hate Israel thread, so I'm asking the mods to close it.

Either that, or I'm leaving ATS.


You'll be so missed

edit on 11-7-2014 by sosobad because: (no reason given)



new topics

top topics



 
83
<< 4  5  6    8  9  10 >>

log in

join