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Doctor's Refusing To Treat Unvaccinated Children

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posted on Jul, 8 2014 @ 01:41 PM
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originally posted by: Realtruth

originally posted by: NavyDoc

In response to your question. They are not refusing treatment, they are not entering the patient/provider relationship which is both ethical and moral and legal. Think of it this way--if you and your doctor disagree on the treatment plan, why would you want him as a doctor?



100% agree.

No sense in having a doctor being forced to treat, accept, or have a patient who he despises because of their personal choice.

Kind of like entering into a bad marriage. lol


Well yeah. Medical care has to be a team effort with everyone involved on board or it just doesn't work.

As for the vaccinations thing, I think it more a fear of liability than it is some sort of "big pharma conspiracy." The world would be a much easier place with fewer lawyers.




posted on Jul, 8 2014 @ 01:54 PM
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a reply to: Realtruth

If these are 'real' doctors and not some pharma sock puppet deal, then those few doctors ought to be well and truely struck off the register for breaking their oath.

It's time pharma realised the PARENTS, the flesh and blood of the children, the progenitors of their personal DNA line and genetic inheritance say what is acceptable or unacceptable for their children.

The LAST consideration for ANY caring and loving parent is profit...for Pharma profit is the ONLY consideration.

That much is obvious to anyone with even the most challenged intelligence, and being such a blatently obvious truth, ought to speak volumes about motive.

If it doesn't, the fact that pharma attempts to brow beat, blackmail and cajole parents into pumping their poison into their children really ought to show the kind of people pushing these drugs..wouold you seriously trust your childrens health to the sort of people who would blackmail you?

I don't.



posted on Jul, 8 2014 @ 02:43 PM
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I believe that doctors are not only imbued with the arrogant God complex when in medical school.....a large percentile of them come from upper income backgrounds which sets them above the Rabble to start with....Its a self perpetuating system they have set up....Kind of like the Indian caste system...just less obvious......



posted on Jul, 8 2014 @ 02:57 PM
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originally posted by: NavyDoc
Oh, and to dispel that pervasive myth. Doctors are not owned by pharma companies and do no get kickbacks and do not make money for writing one prescription drug over another.


It may not be pervasive, but it does happen. And how would a patient know if their physician was being paid by big pharma? Personally I don't think there should be any type of relationship between the two.


NBC Connecticut and investigative newsroom ProPublica uncovered millions of dollars that Big Pharma shelled out to local doctors for speaking engagements, meals, and travel. Payments were as large as $200,000 for individual doctors.

www.nbcconnecticut.com...

Most doctors know a great deal about which pill is best for you, but ask them questions concerning nutrition and I'll bet they fall short.



posted on Jul, 8 2014 @ 02:57 PM
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Double post. There's a first time for everything.
edit on 8-7-2014 by Witness2008 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 8 2014 @ 03:00 PM
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Hello,
Although I agree that the right to refuse vaccinations is the choice of the person, can we at least look at this from a doctor's perspective?

I'm not a doctor, but allow me to throw out this scenario... I'm a pretend doctor. My duty is to make sure my patients are healthy and safe. I see a child who does not have proper vaccinations. He's playing with the other children in my waiting room. Those other children might not be vaccinated yet, but they will be. This kid is potentially a threat to the health of my other patients. Likewise, my other patients, the vaccinated ones, might be a threat to him. (Rarely vaccinations can actually infect a person if made improperly/the person has a very weakened immune system...) As a pretend doctor, I can't force the parents to vaccinate the child, but there is still threat on all sides. Therefore, to prevent possible disease transmission, I must send the child away, for his health and the rest of my patients'.

That's how I see it, but remember, I don't even play a doctor on TV. So please be kind if you disagree.


Cheers.



posted on Jul, 8 2014 @ 03:19 PM
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originally posted by: MysterX

If these are 'real' doctors and not some pharma sock puppet deal, then those few doctors ought to be well and truely struck off the register for breaking their oath.



I don't believe their oath is legally binding, but it's more like a code-of-conduct. There once was a time that if a doctor broke their oaths their medical status was taken away.

Big pharma does drive the industry imo whether it's direct or indirect, since we are talking 100's of billions a year in profits to be had.



posted on Jul, 8 2014 @ 03:39 PM
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originally posted by: Witness2008

originally posted by: NavyDoc
Oh, and to dispel that pervasive myth. Doctors are not owned by pharma companies and do no get kickbacks and do not make money for writing one prescription drug over another.


It may not be pervasive, but it does happen. And how would a patient know if their physician was being paid by big pharma? Personally I don't think there should be any type of relationship between the two.


NBC Connecticut and investigative newsroom ProPublica uncovered millions of dollars that Big Pharma shelled out to local doctors for speaking engagements, meals, and travel. Payments were as large as $200,000 for individual doctors.

www.nbcconnecticut.com...

Most doctors know a great deal about which pill is best for you, but ask them questions concerning nutrition and I'll bet they fall short.


What people don't understand is that doctors like the one in article are paid consultants and must by law disclose that relationship and are nowhere near the average physician.

Your average doctor does not get paid by pharmaceutical companies and does not get paid to prescribe one medication over an other and, in fact, such is very illegal.



posted on Jul, 8 2014 @ 03:52 PM
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a reply to: NavyDoc

Do you mean this type of disclosure?



By Eric Sagara, Charles Ornstein, Tracy Weber, Ryann Grochowski Jones and Jeremy B. Merrill, ProPublica, Updated March 3, 2014 In recent years, drug companies have started releasing details of the payments they make to doctors and other health professionals for promotional talks, research and consulting. As of 2012, 15 companies published the information, most because of legal settlements. Use this tool to search for payments. Read more about the data » Interested in downloading the data? Go to the ProPublica Data Store. Has Your Health Professional Received Drug Company Money? Name State Example searches: Klein, Duke University, Miami More options + With 2.1 Million records, this database represents: Cash2 $2.5 billion in disclosed payments Pharma 15 companies Pie ~ 43% of total market share Payments in Your State Click on a state to see payments made to practitioners and institutions there. See notes below. State Total Alabama $32,352,175 Alaska $516,535 Arizona $38,739,643 Arkansas $15,599,178 California $298,077,233 Colorado $37,667,949 Connecticut $33,936,255 Delaware $4,263,545 District of Columbia $10,078,629 Florida $214,234,452 Georgia $72,421,234 Hawaii $3,879,724 Idaho $9,540,294 Illinois $82,167,799 Indiana $49,917,839 Iowa $12,473,968 Kansas $31,316,568 Kentucky $32,053,020 Louisiana $28,144,888 Maine $4,364,410 Maryland $65,145,277 Massachusetts $116,770,909 Michigan $58,090,460 Minnesota $34,654,974 Mississippi $11,142,272 Missouri $61,853,638 Montana $3,469,361 Nebraska $28,517,569 Nevada $16,562,819 New Hampshire $7,250,849 New Jersey $68,228,948 New Mexico $8,222,340 New York $172,120,803 North Carolina $96,518,819 North Dakota $5,485,004 Ohio $101,752,456 Oklahoma $23,750,987 Oregon $26,273,462 Pennsylvania $115,312,622 Rhode Island $14,542,297 South Carolina $50,615,778 South Dakota $3,678,498 Tennessee $56,781,581 Texas $205,287,519 Utah $31,494,606 Vermont $2,549,397 Virginia $40,174,768 Washington $43,967,071 West Virginia $7,378,715 Wisconsin $26,768,200 Wyoming $519,174 Puerto Rico $15,206,630 [Unknown State] $875,458 Company Disclosures The totals listed here cover different time periods and spending categories, and aren't directly comparable. See notes below. See what each company discloses » Company Total Disclosed AbbVie Disclosed: July to Dec., 2012 $18M Allergan Disclosed: July 2011 to Dec. 2012 Ranges* AstraZeneca Disclosed: Jan. 2010 to Dec. 2012 $275.3M Cephalon Disclosed: Jan. 2009 to Dec. 2012 $89.6M Eli Lilly Disclosed: Jan. 2009 to Dec. 2012 $608.8M EMD Serono Disclosed: Jan. 2011 to Dec. 2012 $4.4M Forest Disclosed: Jan. to Dec. 2012 $99.3M GlaxoSmithKline Disclosed: April 2009 to Dec. 2012 $326.3M Johnson & Johnson Disclosed: Jan. 2010 to Dec. 2012 $68.4M Merck Disclosed: July 2009 to Dec. 2012 $282.7M Novartis Disclosed: Oct. 2010 to Dec. 2012 $115.8M Pfizer Disclosed: July 2009 to Dec. 2012 $583.5M UCB Disclosed: Jan. to Dec., 2012 $30.1M Valeant Disclosed: Jan. 10, 2010 to Dec. 2012 Ranges* ViiV Disclosed: Jan. 2010 to Dec. 2012 $29.3M

projects.propublica.org...

Perhaps those doctors need to be full time consultants for big pharma, makes things less complicated for the health illiterate out here.



posted on Jul, 8 2014 @ 04:13 PM
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originally posted by: Witness2008
a reply to: NavyDoc

Do you mean this type of disclosure?



By Eric Sagara, Charles Ornstein, Tracy Weber, Ryann Grochowski Jones and Jeremy B. Merrill, ProPublica, Updated March 3, 2014 In recent years, drug companies have started releasing details of the payments they make to doctors and other health professionals for promotional talks, research and consulting. As of 2012, 15 companies published the information, most because of legal settlements. Use this tool to search for payments. Read more about the data » Interested in downloading the data? Go to the ProPublica Data Store. Has Your Health Professional Received Drug Company Money? Name State Example searches: Klein, Duke University, Miami More options + With 2.1 Million records, this database represents: Cash2 $2.5 billion in disclosed payments Pharma 15 companies Pie ~ 43% of total market share Payments in Your State Click on a state to see payments made to practitioners and institutions there. See notes below. State Total Alabama $32,352,175 Alaska $516,535 Arizona $38,739,643 Arkansas $15,599,178 California $298,077,233 Colorado $37,667,949 Connecticut $33,936,255 Delaware $4,263,545 District of Columbia $10,078,629 Florida $214,234,452 Georgia $72,421,234 Hawaii $3,879,724 Idaho $9,540,294 Illinois $82,167,799 Indiana $49,917,839 Iowa $12,473,968 Kansas $31,316,568 Kentucky $32,053,020 Louisiana $28,144,888 Maine $4,364,410 Maryland $65,145,277 Massachusetts $116,770,909 Michigan $58,090,460 Minnesota $34,654,974 Mississippi $11,142,272 Missouri $61,853,638 Montana $3,469,361 Nebraska $28,517,569 Nevada $16,562,819 New Hampshire $7,250,849 New Jersey $68,228,948 New Mexico $8,222,340 New York $172,120,803 North Carolina $96,518,819 North Dakota $5,485,004 Ohio $101,752,456 Oklahoma $23,750,987 Oregon $26,273,462 Pennsylvania $115,312,622 Rhode Island $14,542,297 South Carolina $50,615,778 South Dakota $3,678,498 Tennessee $56,781,581 Texas $205,287,519 Utah $31,494,606 Vermont $2,549,397 Virginia $40,174,768 Washington $43,967,071 West Virginia $7,378,715 Wisconsin $26,768,200 Wyoming $519,174 Puerto Rico $15,206,630 [Unknown State] $875,458 Company Disclosures The totals listed here cover different time periods and spending categories, and aren't directly comparable. See notes below. See what each company discloses » Company Total Disclosed AbbVie Disclosed: July to Dec., 2012 $18M Allergan Disclosed: July 2011 to Dec. 2012 Ranges* AstraZeneca Disclosed: Jan. 2010 to Dec. 2012 $275.3M Cephalon Disclosed: Jan. 2009 to Dec. 2012 $89.6M Eli Lilly Disclosed: Jan. 2009 to Dec. 2012 $608.8M EMD Serono Disclosed: Jan. 2011 to Dec. 2012 $4.4M Forest Disclosed: Jan. to Dec. 2012 $99.3M GlaxoSmithKline Disclosed: April 2009 to Dec. 2012 $326.3M Johnson & Johnson Disclosed: Jan. 2010 to Dec. 2012 $68.4M Merck Disclosed: July 2009 to Dec. 2012 $282.7M Novartis Disclosed: Oct. 2010 to Dec. 2012 $115.8M Pfizer Disclosed: July 2009 to Dec. 2012 $583.5M UCB Disclosed: Jan. to Dec., 2012 $30.1M Valeant Disclosed: Jan. 10, 2010 to Dec. 2012 Ranges* ViiV Disclosed: Jan. 2010 to Dec. 2012 $29.3M

projects.propublica.org...

Perhaps those doctors need to be full time consultants for big pharma, makes things less complicated for the health illiterate out here.



There are docs who consult and give speeches for pharmaceutical companies. By law their payments has to be disclosed and they have to make an announcement at the beginning of every lecture they give who pays them, so I don't see what more you want.

Some don't even mention the product. Let's say a company sponsors a lecture on postoperative pain control techniques after total hip arthroplasty. There will be a sign out in front "sponsored by Perdue" but he very often goes the entire lecture without mentioning any products made by that company. That a lecture is sponsored by a company does not necessarily mean that their product is being pushed at said lecture. They often support academic endeavors like any other company--to get good press.

I get it, many people have seen too many movies and think there is a big bad conspiracy, but reality is often not perception. Are there issues and some problems? Of course. Is it a big conspiracy and everyone is on the take? Not even close. The medical industry is one of the most regulated industries in the country.



posted on Jul, 8 2014 @ 07:13 PM
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IF vaccines were so safe, WHY are the MD's themselves refusing them to be used on there OWN families?

FACT: Many MD'S refuse to get vaccinated because they KNOW they are anything but safe.


Approximately 1/3 of Doctors Refuse Vaccinations

Exposure to illness is an occupational hazard for the medical community. Doctors are among the highest risk population groups and most hospitals and practices make it mandatory for physicians to be vaccinated. Researcher and author Neil Z. Miller reports that approximately 66% of pediatricians and obstetricians refused the MMR shot in one study. An equal percentage of doctors refused the Hepatitis B shot, mostly citing safety concerns because of rumors of animal DNA contamination in the shots.

The American Medical Association's (AMA) Archives of Pediatrics and Adolescent Medicine cite a 1994 study where approximately 1/3 of doctors were working without mandatory flu vaccines.[3] Yet the doctors blindly follow national recommendations to vaccinate every child they can round up (sometimes with as many as five vaccines in one visit).

FIVE BAFFLING VACCINATION FACTS

Over half UK doctors, third of nurses, to refuse flu vaccine

A survey of general practitioners published on Healthcare Republic, the website of GP magazine, found that up to 60% of GPs may decline vaccination. A much bigger survey of nurses published a week ago by Nursing Times found that a third of 1,500 nurses would refuse vaccination. But the biggest problem in persuading people and healthcare professionals to have the jab may be the relative shortage of evidence from trials about its safety and efficacy. Link

Protecting Their Own: The Unofficial Vaccination Policy of Doctors in the Know

I recently reconnected with a mainstream doctor affiliated with a large hospital and a thriving practice in the midwest. These were his words as they were spoken to me. For the purpose of protecting his anonymity I will refer to him as "The Doctor."

"You do not question vaccines openly. It's not done. I know I sound ridiculous here but it's like Nazi Germany. Really, I know it sounds silly. I mean, in our own groups, of course, we question vaccines all the time, among ourselves, but you never ever say it openly. You have to understand, doctors are scientists. We pride ourselves on our knowledge. You just don't question, they look at you like you're crazy.

I have to tell you to vaccinate because if I don't and your kid gets sick, I get sued. I am legally responsible. My partners are always telling me, "You make them vaccinate on schedule or they are out." You know you could get in a lot of trouble for not vaccinating yourself--you know that though--you have a medical background." Link

"One of the true tests of a fanatic is whether or not he takes his own medicine—or believes his own press releases." ~ Robert S. Mendelsohn, M.D.

Many doctors and health‐care practitioners do not get vaccinated
and do not vaccinate their children. Why not?

• They know vaccines are not proven to be safe or effective.
• They know vaccines contain dangerous substances.
• They know vaccines cause serious health problems.
• They have treated patients with serious side effects from vaccines. Source

Dr. Gordon T. Stewart, head of the department of community medicine at the University of Glasgow, Scotland, is one of the most vigorous critics of the pertussis vaccine. He says he supported the inoculation before 1974 but then began to observe outbreaks of pertussis in children who had been vaccinated. "Now, in Glasgow," he says, "30 per-cent of our whooping cough cases are occurring in vaccinated patients. This leads me to believe that the vaccine is not all that protective." Source

50% of UK Doctors Refuse Swine Flu Vaccine
NEW THREE ONLINE LISTS of Vaccine Friendly Doctors State By State



posted on Jul, 8 2014 @ 07:27 PM
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MANY MD's no longer trust those in control of the medical cartel...

When the MD's themselves confirm that the medical industry is being used for population reduction, something is seriously wrong.


"I found that the whole vaccine business was indeed a gigantic hoax. Most doctors are convinced that they are useful, but if you look at the proper statistics and study the instance of these diseases you will realize that this is not so." ~ DR. Archie Kalokerinos MD


My final conclusion after forty years or more in this business is that the unofficial policy of the World Health Organization and the unofficial policy of ‘Save the Children’s Fund and almost all those organizations is one of murder and genocide. They want to make it appear as if they are saving these kids, but in actual fact they don’t. I am talking of those at the very top. Beneath that level is another level of doctors and health workers, like myself, who don’t really understand what they are doing. But I cannot see any other possible explanation: It is murder and it is genocide."

~ DR. Archie Kalokerinos M.D.

www.whale.to...


I don't believe they work for ANYONE, neither do many MD's:


"The medical industry is no longer to be trusted. We have a Medical Inquisition. The Rockefellers took it over way back and warped a lot of it. Our doctors are brainwashed.

The Rockefellers are dedicated to population reduction and are using the medical industry to do it."

Confessions of a Medical Heretic ~ Robert Mendelsohn, M.D

"Much of what you have been led to believe about immunizations simply isn't true. I not only have grave misgivings about them, I would urge you to reject all inoculations for your child. Although I administered them my-self during my early years of practice, I have become a steadfast opponent of mass inoculation because of the myriad hazards they present." ~ Robert Mendelsohn, M.D.

"The greatest threat of childhood disease lies in the dangerous and ineffectual efforts made to prevent them through mass immunization." ~ Dr Robert S Mendelsohn

“I do not believe in Modern Medicine. I am a medical heretic. I believe that Modern Medicine’s treatments for disease . . . are more dangerous than the diseases they are designed to treat."
~ Robert S. Mendelsohn, M.D.

The only wholly safe vaccine is a vaccine that is never used.
~ Dr James A Shannon

Many doctors and health‐care practitioners do not get vaccinated
and do not vaccinate their children. Why not?

• They know vaccines are not proven to be safe or effective.
• They know vaccines contain dangerous substances.
• They know vaccines cause serious health problems.
• They have treated patients with serious side effects from vaccines.
Source

There is a great deal of evidence to prove that immunization of children does more harm than good,...there is no rationale for forcing immunization ~ Dr J Anthony Morris

"Only after realising that routine immunisations were dangerous did I achieve a substantial drop in infant death rates. The worst vaccine of all is the whooping cough vaccine... it is responsible for a lot of deaths and for a lot of infants suffering irreversible brain damage. In susceptible infants, it knocks their immune systems about, leading to irreparable brain damage, or severe attacks or even deaths from diseases like pneumonia or gastro-enteritis and so on." --Dr. Kalokerinos, M.D. Famous Vaccine Quotes

"My honest opinion is that vaccination is the cause of more disease and suffering than anything I could name." -Dr. Harry R. Baybee



posted on Jul, 8 2014 @ 07:51 PM
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a reply to: Realtruth

Whatever... going to the doctor is very overrated anyway. The main reason people take their kids their is to get poisoned, oops, I mean immunized anyway. If my kid(s) gets hurt, that's what the ER is for.



posted on Jul, 8 2014 @ 10:29 PM
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I see a need for some vaccinations but do not see that someone should hold it against a person if they deny some vaccinations that could be more of a problem if taken than if you get the disease. Some people get reactions, maybe two out of a hundred for each vaccine. Now 15 vaccines with an overlap ratio means approximately 12 percent of people will have some sort of negative effects. Some that could jeopardize their life or future health.

I don't think that they are playing god, I think that society is putting these doctors on a pedistal and society is forming consensus on this. The problem is evident in most classes of people. Consensus of the time is not always right, especially if someone who has power is structuring the consensus.



posted on Jul, 8 2014 @ 10:53 PM
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a reply to: Realtruth

I think it's none of their business whether children are immunised or not... Doctors shouldn't be knocking anyone back who has come to them for help.



posted on Jul, 8 2014 @ 11:11 PM
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To add some depth, legal perspective Here and the recommendation of:


The American Academy of Pediatrics, though strongly supporting universal vaccinations, discourages doctors from refusing to see unvaccinated patients.


I guess I can see both sides, I do think it can be a slippery slope (many articles also mention the refusal to take on patients with at-risk factors like obesity an smoking, medicare and now obamacare), as well as the violation of the H. oath and all the ethics questions that must be considred. I do think we might be seeing this come up more often as time goes on.


edit on 8-7-2014 by LadySkadi because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 8 2014 @ 11:52 PM
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a reply to: RedmoonMWC

Don't know if I agree with your chicken pox theory although it could just be me, I'm a bit of an oddball.

There wasn't a vaccine for chicken pox when I was a kid. At 7 I had a full blown case, by the age of 9 I developed shingles on my right shoulder blade. It was a big patch. The doc thought it was the craziest thing, said it was an old person's disease.

It's funny my small pox vaccine scar turned into one big pox bump. Everyone made fun, I've still got it. I'm part native american my mom said most things hit me hard. She wondered if my complexion had anything to do with my silly pox bump.

Kinda scary it's like I was trying to get it. I was the only one at school whose scar did that. I told classmates it was my "cootie shot" they disagreed, said I'd get it for sure unless they hit it. Tough times. LOL



posted on Jul, 9 2014 @ 07:45 AM
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originally posted by: LadySkadi
To add some depth, legal perspective Here and the recommendation of:


The American Academy of Pediatrics, though strongly supporting universal vaccinations, discourages doctors from refusing to see unvaccinated patients.


I guess I can see both sides, I do think it can be a slippery slope (many articles also mention the refusal to take on patients with at-risk factors like obesity an smoking, medicare and now obamacare), as well as the violation of the H. oath and all the ethics questions that must be considred. I do think we might be seeing this come up more often as time goes on.



I can see both sides as well.

And with outbreaks of Polio, and others I think it's going to give them strong bases to turn away patients.

I have some issues with vaccines because I lost one family member (54yo) due to a pneumonia vaccine, that was perfectly healthy within the last couple of years. They were pronounce dead within 48 hours of the vaccine.

Also about 10 years ago my nephew, when he was an infant, had a severe reaction to the Pertussis vaccine it left him with a handicap for a number of years.

I'm not sure about vaccinating infants at all. I personally think their systems are not able to handle them, if anyone is going to give a young one a vaccine it should be when they are a bit older, but that is my personal bias.



posted on Jul, 9 2014 @ 07:55 AM
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a reply to: Realtruth
Good for those doctors. They are responsible for the welfare of hundreds of patients. If one patient is endangering the others by refusing to follow medical advice, they've got to go. As a side-effect, this will free up more time for the doctor to see patients who will follow medical advice.

(One wonders why the parents of an unvaccinated child would want to bring that child to a pediatrician, anyway. Wouldn't they find more appropriate service from the local homeopath, faith healer, or witch doctor?)



posted on Jul, 9 2014 @ 08:13 AM
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originally posted by: FurvusRexCaeli
a reply to: Realtruth
Good for those doctors. They are responsible for the welfare of hundreds of patients. If one patient is endangering the others by refusing to follow medical advice, they've got to go. As a side-effect, this will free up more time for the doctor to see patients who will follow medical advice.

(One wonders why the parents of an unvaccinated child would want to bring that child to a pediatrician, anyway. Wouldn't they find more appropriate service from the local homeopath, faith healer, or witch doctor?)



That's absurd.

Firstly because isn't Vaccines suppose to protect the Vaccinated children, so wouldn't the vaccinated children be immune now?

If vaccines are as good as they say, all the vaccinated people should have to worry about anything.

Just because parents don't believe in one aspect of the medical profession they should be shunned?

What if they require medical treatment for something else say an injury, infection, allergies, etc.

You are just solidifying the "God Complex" POV
edit on 9-7-2014 by Realtruth because: (no reason given)




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