ISRAEL launches offensive on Gaza!

a reply to: buster2010

Like I said, it goes both ways and is one big cluster. However, it doesn't negate the party in power is a terrorist org.

originally posted by: EternalSolace
a reply to: FlyersFan

That's exactly the point. I don't understand what is so difficult to understand about Hamas being a terrorist organization. If Hamas was sitting on a border next to the US and were launching rockets, into say Texas, they'd be obliterated. If you ask me, the Palestinians would be much better off without Hamas ruling over them.

Israel would also be much better off if they didn't have the new age Nazis ruling over them. Israel needs to start electing people that want peace instead of people who keep screaming kill kill kill.

Six people killed in Israeli strikes in Gaza in last 24 hours, Palestinian medical and security sources say.

CNN

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: daaskapital
What i am trying to say, is that Israel is the root cause of these ongoing problems.

I respectfully disagree. I think both sides are seriously screwed up. Both sides are to blame. And if you rain down 300 rockets on a country that has bigger firepower than you, you are going to get nailed back and in a big way. Common sense says - don't do it. (common sense - something severely lacking in the middle east). I think Seagull said it best - ATS Thread - There Are No Angels

For sure, both sides are in the wrong. But i maintain my opinion in that the current crisis is Israel's fault. They severed peace deals earlier in the year, after allegedly failing to come through on a deal, and have recently cut a swathe through the West Bank, causing the Palestinians to retaliate.

Sure, it isn't a smart idea on behalf of Hamas to fire on Israel, but what else are they going to do? Sit back and take it, leaving the international scene none the wiser as to what is going on? It seems as if these campaigns are the only way in which to draw attention to the problems between Israel and Palestine. If they were to just suck it up and let their own people die, Israel will continue to get away with it.

originally posted by: daaskapital
The only reason why the Palestinians were firing rockets at Israel, was because of the destruction and death Israel left in the West Bank, during the search for those three Israeli teenagers.

Again, I respectfully disagree. It wasn't the 'only' reason. A long standing hatred and using any excuse to rain down rockets is the reason. (IMHO). And yes, Israel uses any excuse to respond in a massive and inappropriate way. It just keeps going back and forth. It doesn't matter who started it or when it started ... and no one really knows for sure anyway.

If those three Israeli teens hadn't been murdered, then none of this would have happened. The parents of the people who murdered the teens said that they were proud of their child who did the murder. That says a lot about the mentality of the Palestinians over there. The excessive retaliation by Israel says a lot about the mentality of the Israeli leadership as well.

Frankly .. I think both sides are beyond being able to be deprogrammed of their hate. It's a cesspool. The world should just isolate the entire middle east and not interfere. Let them all bash each other to hell. Whoever is left standing gets the land they are standing on. THE END. The world is sick of the animalistic behavior over there. I doubt many people have any real sympathy for either side in this anymore. That was lost long ago. (again .. in my opinion)

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: daaskapital
What i am trying to say, is that Israel is the root cause of these ongoing problems.

I respectfully disagree. I think both sides are seriously screwed up. Both sides are to blame. And if you rain down 300 rockets on a country that has bigger firepower than you, you are going to get nailed back and in a big way. Common sense says - don't do it. (common sense - something severely lacking in the middle east). I think Seagull said it best - ATS Thread - There Are No Angels

So the Palestinians were supposed to happy that half their nation was stolen from them and given to a bunch of people that had no ties with the land? There is absolutely no way that Israel is not the cause of all of this.

originally posted by: daaskapital
Sure, it isn't a smart idea on behalf of Hamas to fire on Israel, but what else are they going to do?

Just a suggestion - Take all the massive amounts of aid money pouring in and spend it on education for their people. Spend it on an international campaign to educate the world about their view of their situation. Invest the $$ in projects that will assist their people. Instead, the HAMAS leadership uses it for weapons and propaganda (like childrens programming designed to make Palestinian children hate Jews and to become martyrs). Otherwise, It's an unending cycle that goes nowhere except to hate and death.

The leadership of both sides do not want peace. Peace puts them out of business. It takes their power. Example - Arafat stole hundreds of millions .. some estimate billions ... in Palestinian aid. Go after that money. Get it back from his swiss accounts and from his 'widow' (she was really just his beard). Spend it on the people it was intended for ... palestinian children. And I mean spend it on their health and education, not on propaganda TV shows programming them to be martyrs.

Honestly, the best thing that could happen to the people over there is for them to dump their bronze age religions and enter the year 2014. But that's not going to happen without education. If they ever figure out that Abraham might not even have existed, then they might figure out that the land there really wasn't gifted to anyone by God. It's just land. But getting them to see that can't happen with all the indoctrination going on.

Anyways, you asked what to do. That's my opinion. Not that it'll happen. But that's what I think could help.

a reply to: Expat888

From the Oslo Accords (Sept. 1993) until September 2000 - nearly 300 Israelis were killed in attacks.

During the Palestinian Al-Aqsa Intifada (Sept. 2000 - Dec. 2005) another 1,100 Israelis were killed.

Since December 2005, Palestinian terrorist attacks have claimed at least another 135 Israeli lives.

This only covers the last 21 years. If you look up all the attacks from 1951 until today it would take a long time to get through a very depressing and bloody list of attacks. You can't really blame Israel for being upset and taking a heavy hand against these groups?

Do you think the USA would act any differently if we had the same issue with Meixco or Canada?
Would England not strike back if Irish terrorists started setting off bombs in cars and busses again?
How about China.. if Mongolia had hoards of terrorists attacking small villages or cities would they just ignore it?

Israel did NOT start attacking anyone first. This goes all the way back to 1951.... do a little homework and read up on the history of the situation instead of making stupid comments about a government engaging in mass murder.


As far as my own opinion about Israel/Palestine... I truly wish they would find a solution to the conflict which did not involve bombs and guns. I have many cousins who live in Israel and don't want to see them get hurt or worse. However, they can't seem to get their act together and the cycles of violence will continue.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

Again, I respectfully disagree. It wasn't the 'only' reason. A long standing hatred and using any excuse to rain down rockets is the reason. (IMHO). And yes, Israel uses any excuse to respond in a massive and inappropriate way. It just keeps going back and forth. It doesn't matter who started it or when it started ... and no one really knows for sure anyway.

I'm not sure on that, because from what i understand, these recent tensions were the first major happenings between both nations this year. Hamas could have done it due to a long standing hatred of Israel, but doing such things would be contrary to their goals for a Palestinian state (remember: they had only recently formed a united government in order to make some progress). I think it is more likely that they retaliated due to Israel's recent campaigns. I do agree on your last point though, that it doesn't really matter who started it, as both sides are clearly in the wrong.

If those three Israeli teens hadn't been murdered, then none of this would have happened. The parents of the people who murdered the teens said that they were proud of their child who did the murder. That says a lot about the mentality of the Palestinians over there. The excessive retaliation by Israel says a lot about the mentality of the Israeli leadership as well.

Indeed, the murders of those teenagers were a significant factor, but so too, was Israel's response, and actions, while looking for them. I just wish both sides had calmer heads, and weren't so overly brutal in condoning murderous activities.

Frankly .. I think both sides are beyond being able to be deprogrammed of their hate. It's a cesspool. The world should just isolate the entire middle east and not interfere. Let them all bash each other to hell. Whoever is left standing gets the land they are standing on. THE END. The world is sick of the animalistic behavior over there. I doubt many people have any real sympathy for either side in this anymore. That was lost long ago. (again .. in my opinion)

I think you speak the truth regarding the hate displayed by both sides. It is too far gone to be repaired.

I do fail to see so much hate on Israel's part though. Sure they get bombed by Hamas, but at least they weren't forced to live in an open air prison after having their houses bulldozed...

Overall, the only way i can see this situation being repaired, is if Israel and Palestine agree to a two state solution, where proper education programs are then taught to the new generation, in order to quell the extremism. Both sides hold disgusting opinions of the other, and it needs to be stopped.

originally posted by: buster2010
So the Palestinians were supposed to happy that half their nation was stolen from them and given to a bunch of people that had no ties with the land?

This is 2014. It's been 70 years and Israel isn't going anywhere. It's here to stay. The people there have a right to be there just as much as the 'Palestinians' do. ('Palestinians' who have been kicked out of Jordon and Syria .. they aren't exactly an easy bunch for anyone to get along with). It's a crowded middle east. Everyone needs to deal with the reality of here and now .. not what some religious guy who may or may not have existed claimed thousands and thousands of years ago.

There is absolutely no way that Israel is not the cause of all of this.

well .. reading your posts around the boards it looks like you think Israel and Zionism is the cause of every problem on the planet. It's predictable that you'd say that.

BTW ... Just a side note .... every time I read one of your posts I hear as Sheldons voice in my head. Funny.

originally posted by: daaskapital
that it doesn't really matter who started it, as both sides are clearly in the wrong.

Agreed.

I just wish both sides had calmer heads, and weren't so overly brutal in condoning murderous activities.

Agreed.

I think you speak the truth regarding the hate displayed by both sides. It is too far gone to be repaired.

Agreed.

the only way i can see this situation being repaired, is if Israel and Palestine agree to a two state solution,

That would be a good start. I don't see it being able to work. But then again, I'm a jaded grumpy old lady and have lost patience with all of them over there. Honestly, I really don't care anymore. I blame their inability to evolve past the bronze age mentality of their 'god chose us' mentality. Both sides have it. And religion is a hard thing to fight against ...

Israel has been trying to eradicate these people since 1948. If Hamas was'nt there, Israel would slaughter every man ,every woman & every child in Gaza. And the rest of the world sits & watches and does nothing......Nothing.Absolutely Nothing.

originally posted by: buster2010
Israel needs to start electing people that want peace instead of people who keep screaming kill kill kill.

Same with Hamas. But we both know that those in charge on both sides don't really want peace. They want the power and the money.

Haaretz

a reply to: FlyersFan

I wholeheartedly agree. In fact, i posted a similar statement on education before reading this post, lol.

Education is the way forward, but i think it will only by successful after both states are on equal grounds. Both sides must have equal rights as states, and both leaderships must be taken down, as they both espouse extremism. Only then, we would see some progress in terms of education.

I believe that education must be equal and provide both sides with a greater understanding of the other. This is dues to the fact that there seems to be a high amount of extremism in not only the Palestinians, but the Israelis too.

Thanks for the reply.

a reply to: daaskapital
Exactly. But getting that to actually happen ... well ....
Anyways, daaskapital posted the viable working solution.
I wonder how many centuries it'll take the Middle East to figure out the same thing.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

That would be a good start. I don't see it being able to work. But then again, I'm a jaded grumpy old lady and have lost patience with all of them over there. Honestly, I really don't care anymore. I blame their inability to evolve past the bronze age mentality of their 'god chose us' mentality. Both sides have it. And religion is a hard thing to fight against ...

I agree that it would definitely be a hard aspect to tackle, but i think it must be done in order to properly achieve anything. They both claim to own the land, so why not split it 50/50? If they had any compassion, they shouldn't have any problems. I do think that is the one thing both sides lack though, and just the simple fact that neither side cares for the other, will probably be the undoing of any advancement.

It is a shame, but i maintain hope that it could be done, providing both leaderships are removed first.

Thanks.

a reply to: FlyersFan

Common sense says - don't do it. (common sense - something severely lacking in the middle east). I think Seagull said it best

Again, so why point fingers? I agree, they are both totally out to lunch when it comes to conflict resolution. But one is not more right, or wrong, over the other. Two wrongs don't make a right, yet no one really deserves to be walked all over by a military force because they interpret a bunch of REALLY old scripts their own way. Which they read in the minds as the "others" aren't allowed in their neighborhoods.

Your original comment of

Well .. if Hamas would stop firing rockets at Israel, then Israel wouldn't have a reason to shoot back.

is really just a situation of which came first, the chicken or the egg? It also comes across as an assumption that one side deserves it while the other doesn't. Neither side deserves what they get, but at the same time...THEY DO!! I have a really hard time defending idiots, let alone nations of idiots fighting over who gets what corner of the sandbox.

IF everything works out the way I assume it will (based on historical evidence), they will turn the sandbox into glass and the rest of the world can move on and not have to keep hearing about this insanity.

I have no respect for Israel and no respect for Hamas. They are equally the scum of the earth. (note: this feeling of mine applies to anyone vested in violent conflict 'resolution')

Either they learn to get along, or they can vaporize each other off this planet. Just leave me out of it and try to not use the big red button while learning to live with someone beside you who shares at least 99.9% identical DNA.

a reply to: Whatsreal

Anyone with half a clue knows that the Palestinian fatalities far out weigh the Israeli fatalities.

This doesn't just go back to "1951" as you've tried to suggest, tell me how would you like it if a bunch of Zionists with the help of the Brits and frineds came and attacked your country and said look we are dividing your country up and giving some to the jews, and then when you say no and attempt to fight to keep your land you are labelled a terrorist?

You, and others just as brain-washed by Zionist propaganda surely struggle to sleep straight in bed, or have no conscience whatsoever. The ignorance, arrogance, and cunning nazi like manipulation(some examples of this can be seen in your failed analogies above) can be seen through by all those who seek the truth on the matter.

Israel and it's Zionist warmongering founders and supporters are their own worst enemies.

originally posted by: EternalSolace
a reply to: FlyersFan

That's exactly the point. I don't understand what is so difficult to understand about Hamas being a terrorist organization. If Hamas was sitting on a border next to the US and were launching rockets, into say Texas, they'd be obliterated. If you ask me, the Palestinians would be much better off without Hamas ruling over them.

We do have terrorist organizations on our Texas border. We just call them a different name, cartels. They slaughter many Americans and Mexicans and we have done NOTHING to obliterate them. So I doubt what you say here.