ISRAEL launches offensive on Gaza!

originally posted by: FlyersFan
"It" didn't start 70 years ago. "It's been going on for thousands of years in that area

Yeah it has been going on for 1000's of years but Zionism hasn't been around for 1000's of years, they were born in the late 1800's.

probably starting with Joshua and his campaign of slaughter to clear the land of inhabitants for the Hebrews.

Joshua from the Moses timeframe? The stories probably weren't real like the other ones that have been proven to be hoaxes apparently.

Slaughters of people to expand Islam. The jews/hebrews have thousands of years of slaughter history. The Muslims have 1500 years of slaughter expansionist history. But I agree with you that it all didn't start with the murders of the three Israeli teens.

Under Islamic control (The Ottoman Empire) that part of the region lived in peace. Arab, Jew and Christian lived amongst each other with no issues. So we can't blame Islam for unrest at that stage which was roughly up until 100 years ago. It's only after WW1 that major problems started to arise... It doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out where those problems came from either. It's very simple stuff really without bringing in the 1000's of years prior to the current scenario.

originally posted by: FlyersFan
I am glad you posted that. This is why religion should play no part in deciding who gets land. The Jews think it's theirs because God promised it to them via Abraham. The Muslims think it's theirs because the Jews broke the promise and aren't righteous, so they think they are the next ones to inherit it.

The Muslims don't think that land is theirs.. They acknowledge that the land was given to the Jews/Hebrews.. The problem is Muslims understand that there were conditions with inheriting that land also and one of them was being righteous in conduct which means upholding the laws of Judaism to rule that land. Obviously that didn't happen in the end and the Jews were banished until the end of time or to be exact, when the Messiah returned..

In reality ... neither side is 'righteous' and God didn't promise that land to anyone. That's a folklore from 4,000 years ago and completely unable to be proven. Heck, no one even knows if Abraham even existed. It's absurd for the Jews or the Muslims to claim that land as an inheritance from Abraham. This is 2014 AD. Everyone is there and everyone need to learn to get along .. or they die. That's the simple truth of the matter.

No-one is righteous, that's a fact but not everyone is in 2014 either.. That's our date. With that though, we don't share a spiritual bond with that part of the world either so we will never know what the hell they keep fighting for, they don't care about our opinions, they will keep killing each other regardless.

originally posted by: DarknStormy
Joshua from the Moses timeframe? The stories probably weren't real like the other ones that have been proven to be hoaxes apparently.

Yes, Joshuas big battle of Jericho was proven to be a load of bunk.
Like Noahs Ark and Exodus and Adam and Eve.

It's only after WW1 that major problems started to arise...

Islam has a long bloody history. So do the Hebrews/Jews. Both have expansionist bloodbaths on their hands. Neither is a peaceful religion. The problems are nothing new. Having both these expansionist Abrahamic religions occupying the same space is just asking for problems.

originally posted by: DarknStormy
The Muslims don't think that land is theirs.. They acknowledge that the land was given to the Jews/Hebrews.. The problem is Muslims understand that there were conditions with inheriting that land also and one of them was being righteous in conduct which means upholding the laws of Judaism to rule that land.

... the conditions for inheriting the land. Exactly. There have been muslims on this board stating that, because the Jews aren't righteous, they have given up their inheritance claim and therefore the land goes to the next inheritance ... the Muslims via Abraham and Hagars offspring. Did those Muslims posting here get that wrong? Are there different beliefs among Muslims as to the Abrahamic inheritance thing?

originally posted by: FlyersFan
Islam has a long bloody history. So do the Hebrews/Jews. Both have expansionist bloodbaths on their hands. Neither is a peaceful religion. The problems are nothing new. Having both these expansionist Abrahamic religions occupying the same space is just asking for problems.

Wait a minute, there was a time frame in the not so distant future where all 3 religions lived amongst each other in peace. They would care for each others children instead of killing them, they co-existed until Zionism came along. We can break certain issues down to determine why things went back to the way they were prior to them co-existing.

Yes this has been going on for ever but it cannot be denied that over the last 100 years, something has contributed to the situation that part of the world is facing right now. It's likely called Zionism.

originally posted by: DarknStormy
there was a time frame in the not so distant future where all 3 religions lived amongst each other in peace.

Crystal ball time now?

they co-existed until Zionism came along.

So these never happened?

en.wikipedia.org...

1.1 Muhammad's campaigns
1.2 Byzantine–Arab Wars: 634–750
1.2.1 Under the Rashidun
1.2.2 Under the Umayyads
1.2.3 Later conquests
1.3 Conquest of Persia and Mesopotamia: 633–651
1.4 Conquest of Transoxiana: 662–751
1.5 Conquest of Sindh: 664–712
1.6 Conquest of Hispania (711–718) and Septimania (719–720)
1.7 Attempts to Conquer the Caucasus: 711–750
1.8 End of the Umayyad conquests: 718–750
1.9 Conquest of Nubia: 700–1606
1.10 Incursions into southern Italy: 831–902
1.11 Conquest of Anatolia: 1060–1360
1.12 Byzantine-Ottoman Wars: 1299–1453
1.13 Further conquests: 1200–1800
1.14 Decline and collapse: 1800–1924

Yes this has been going on for ever but it cannot be denied that over the last 100 years, something has contributed to the situation that part of the world is facing right now.

It is called Islamic extremism.

originally posted by: FlyersFan
... the conditions for inheriting the land. Exactly. There have been muslims on this board stating that, because the Jews aren't righteous, they have given up their inheritance claim and therefore the land goes to the next inheritance ... the Muslims via Abraham and Hagars offspring. Did those Muslims posting here get that wrong? Are there different beliefs among Muslims as to the Abrahamic inheritance thing?

There is no next inheritor until the Messiah himself returns.. The only other entity that will stake his claim to that land is the Antichrist. That figure that deceives the entire world..... Something like the modern State of Israel if you get my drift lol. and this can be backed with pretty good points also.

originally posted by: DarknStormy
There is no next inheritor until the Messiah himself returns.. .

Got it. Thanks.
So when I hear Muslims say that Islam inherits it, then I will tell them -
1 - They got it wrong.
2 - It's all based on Abraham and there is no proof that he even existed.
3 - This is 2014 AD . Learn to get along or die.

a reply to: hellobruce

So what? Want me to throw a list up of wars and atrocities that White man has been behind? That list spans over 1300 years, I could make the same list about White mans adventures over the last 150 years.

originally posted by: DarknStormy
So what? .

His point is that there has never been peace in that area. It was a bloody mess before Israel existed. It will continue to be a bloody mess. Israel didn't cause the problem to start. The problem is deeply rooted ... in both Hebrew/Jewish and Islam ongoing histories. It's inherent. If Israel was to disappear tomorrow, the killing wouldn't stop.

Best way to win the peace there is to let them fight it out till there is a winner.

originally posted by: DarknStormy
That list spans over 1300 years, I could make the same list about White mans adventures over the last 150 years.

You claimed

they co-existed until Zionism came along

The list I posted shows that claim is just not true, Islam is happy to fight with anyone - and if they are not fighting non muslims to fight they are happy to fight muslims.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: DarknStormy
So what? .

His point is that there has never been peace in that area. It was a bloody mess before Israel existed. It will continue to be a bloody mess. Israel didn't cause the problem to start. The problem is deeply rooted ... in both Hebrew/Jewish and Islam ongoing histories. It's inherent. If Israel was to disappear tomorrow, the killing wouldn't stop.

I explained I understand what has happened throughout history.. I don't need a refresher about Islamic conquests and Western sponsored Terrorism.

originally posted by: DarknStormy
I explained I understand what has happened throughout history.. I don't need a refresher about Islamic conquests and Western sponsored Terrorism.

Well .. you said "they co-existed until Zionism came along". So it kinda looked like you did need a refresher about Islamic conquests and bloody expansionism. But okay ... it's there now for everyone to see. Nobody in that area got along .. not before Israel and not after Israel. Hard core religious folks ... They can't get along with anyone, not others and not themselves. And I'm not talking about just Muslims.

Oh .. and nothing on that list was 'western sponsored terrorism'. That was all genocide and culture-destruction through Islamic expansionism on it's own.

originally posted by: hellobruce
You claimed "they co-existed until Zionism came along"

Yeah, Jews, Arabs (Muslim and Christian) did live amongst each other peacefully. If I was talking about the entire history of the Middle East, of course I wouldn't say something like that, who in their right mind would?

The list I posted shows that claim is just not true, Islam is happy to fight with anyone - and if they are not fighting non muslims to fight they are happy to fight muslims.

If you want to go into Islam and Western influence in their affairs we can.. There are plenty of topics that could justify their reasons for fighting just as their are plenty of reasons to condemn them also. Half the problem is us getting involved in their problems and we only make things worse when we start injecting our money into their conquests and atrocities.

a reply to: FlyersFan

This is what I said to you..

It's only after WW1 that major problems started to arise... It doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out where those problems came from either. It's very simple stuff really without bringing in the 1000's of years prior to the current scenario.

And what did the poster bring up? A 1000 years worth of something I was never speaking about in the first place.

originally posted by: FlyersFan
Well .. if Hamas would stop firing rockets at Israel, then Israel wouldn't have a reason to shoot back.

geez...now you're making sense, please stop....it hurts the narrative against Israel killing innocents...no rockets fired, peace...rockets fired, war....yup, pretty simple to me

originally posted by: DarknStormy
And what did the poster bring up? A 1000 years worth of something I was never speaking about in the first place.

Yes you were - you claimed

It's only after WW1 that major problems started to arise

I showed that was just a lie, but you just want to blame the Jews.

originally posted by: hellobruce
I showed that was just a lie, but you just want to blame the Jews.

Now your just lying. Learn the difference between Zionism and Judaism before you go accusing people of lying. They are not the same thing and never have been. You haven't proven anything because not once have I placed the blame on Jews... Zionism is a secular political movement, what does that have to do with Jews and religion?

originally posted by: DarknStormy
a reply to: hellobruce

So what? Want me to throw a list up of wars and atrocities that White man has been behind? That list spans over 1300 years, I could make the same list about White mans adventures over the last 150 years.

no, don't do it.

only a madman would undertake such a gigantic task.

anyway, what will happen next here?

it is interesting that out of hundreds of rockets that were fired on Israel not even one caused any casualties, what is the reason for this?