Waco and Jonestown? Can you fill me in?

I woke up with 9/11, even though I had some sense that JFK's murder was highly suspicious.
I just spent an hour checking out the conspiracy aspects of Waco and Jonestown on the internet, but that was not enough to feel I have a grasp of the reality behind those two tragedies.

The CIA, as usual, seem to leave their evil fingerprints on both cases. But are the CIA evil, or are they the instrument being used by evil higher ups? It's sort of like the argument I have had with friends as to what extent Obama is guilty of things such as the drone assault on Pakistan and Yemen. Who is in charge is the question. When it comes to the CIA, is who is in charge still the question?

Were Waco and Jonestown actually conspiracies? I was asleep then.

originally posted by: droid56
I woke up with 9/11, even though I had some sense that JFK's murder was highly suspicious.
I just spent an hour checking out the conspiracy aspects of Waco and Jonestown on the internet, but that was not enough to feel I have a grasp of the reality behind those two tragedies.

The CIA, as usual, seem to leave their evil fingerprints on both cases. But are the CIA evil, or are they the instrument being used by evil higher ups? It's sort of like the argument I have had with friends as to what extent Obama is guilty of things such as the drone assault on Pakistan and Yemen. Who is in charge is the question. When it comes to the CIA, is who is in charge still the question?

Were Waco and Jonestown actually conspiracies? I was asleep then.

a reply to: droid56
Oops, wrong forum. Oh well.
I thought this was general conspiracies.

You can even here Cia connection in the Jonestown death tape, Jim Jones says "Get Dwyer out of here". (Dwyer the known CIA agent), that mother effer Jim Jones didn't expect to die that day imo, i'm pretty sure some abc agency offed him right as he out lived his usefulness.

Waco i know less and it always seemed like less of a gov op, but i doubt the fbi would be stupid enough to kill those babies on tv (tho Koresh's gang may have lit the fire too), unless to make a horrific example, both of those cults were pretty damn sketchy.

a reply to: droid56

Were Waco and Jonestown actually conspiracies? I was asleep then.

Older family returning from Vietnam talked about the gulf of Tonka thats when it started for me I woke up .

Waco was a horrid over reach of the government. I worked with a accountant her and her hubby worked at the Davidians right after they got married and sporadically took time off to work there . What she saw and people she knew there both were adamant that it was a smear campaign there is some good independent documentaries out there. It broke my heart watching her at work during the stand off. I think it was a example to all of us. We the government is your higher power.


Jonestown I know whats in the news.

Now JFK I was young then when it happened but later read a heap about it. I know there is far more than the official story .

Read 1984, Mein kompf project paper clip and compare today to your parents days.

You will need alot of these .

a reply to: droid56

I too was asleep till I read random people on the Internet. Now I am completely awake. Thanks random Internet people. You saved me from needing critical analysis and logic be gone!!!!!

a reply to: sn0rch

hehe, yeah i noticed that too..
it's not as simple as watching a good doco and saying "righto, that makes sense"


..i wonder if the OP has looked into things like MKUltra yet?

Alex Jones did a good documentary on Waco.





Here's a video about Jonestown

Jonestown I don't know, but Waco seemed to be clear government overreach to me. Although my dad who was at the OKC trials heard some things from the agents who worked with him that make him second guess that, at least the ones he talked with said there were some on the ground who genuinely believed the women and children were being killed when the government went in.

Every time I hear Waco mentioned, I always wander in my mind to Ruby Ridge. I know in Ruby Ridge it ended with only the guy living through it winning a lawsuit for a good chunk of change many years later against the Feds because it was proven to be their fault entirely. Ever since I read that, I am skeptical of EVERYTHING that has the government involved in raids.

a reply to: droid56

If you're interested in Waco, you should also look up Ruby Ridge. It's part one.

I might be able to provide a perspective on Waco that others may not. I knew one of the people who died there and I met David Koresh.

One of the men who died there was one of my best friends in high school. He was also the drummer in our garage band. The last picture I saw of him was playing drums behind Koresh. He was a good friend and not a wacko or lunatic. He really was one of the nicest people I knew. I miss him.

I remember meeting David Koresh. He had a way of looking at you that made you feel uncomfortable. Not threatened, just uncomfortable. We spoke for a few minutes and I didn't like him much. He just rubbed me the wrong way. I spent the rest of my time talking to my friend Mike. When I asked him what he was doing in Texas he didn't say much. I let it go. He told me he had a girlfriend and they got along good. He seemed happy enough. Before I knew it, it was time to go and Mike was heading back to Texas the next day. It never occurred to me that I would never see him again.

When I heard what was happening in Waco I called Mikes parents to find out what was going on but they were already in Texas. I watched it all on tv and I was stunned. They kept talking about a military style compound... It didn't make sense to me. I saw the fighting, and eventually the building going up in flames. And then it was over. It was the first time I had ever seen a crime scene bulldozed without an investigation.

I heard all the rumors and the "official explanation". It was some time later that I got to talk to Mikes parents. It seems that Mike was the first person killed that day. The bad part was, he wasn't even at the house. He and another man were in town when the fighting started. When he heard what was happening he tried to get back there but the roads were blocked. They went cross-country to try to reach the house but were met near the fence by ATF agents. I don't know who told them or how they found out, but they insisted that Mike was shot in the back of the head execution style, unarmed and on his knees. I saw the pain in their eyes and heard the anguish in their voices when they told me. I believe them. An ATF agent was later photographed wearing Mikes baseball cap, a trophy he claimed from his kill. One of my best friends was dead.

I was also informed that the media was prevented from filming the front side of the house throughout the entire event. When the women and children tried to escape the burning building some were cut down by machine guns, the rest herded back into the burning house by gunfire. The front side of the building riddled with bullet holes was allegedly the reason the house was bulldozed before an investigation could take place. I believe that also.

If all they wanted to do was arrest Koresh they could have done that earlier that same day when he was in town, unarmed, and with only one other person. Simple. But it didn't happen that way. And I would really like to know why.

Rumor has it that the man the character Rambo is based on had a bit blood on his hand's with Jonestown





www.splcenter.org...

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
I might be able to provide a perspective on Waco that others may not. I knew one of the people who died there and I met David Koresh.

One of the men who died there was one of my best friends in high school. He was also the drummer in our garage band. The last picture I saw of him was playing drums behind Koresh. He was a good friend and not a wacko or lunatic. He really was one of the nicest people I knew. I miss him.

I remember meeting David Koresh. He had a way of looking at you that made you feel uncomfortable. Not threatened, just uncomfortable. We spoke for a few minutes and I didn't like him much. He just rubbed me the wrong way. I spent the rest of my time talking to my friend Mike. When I asked him what he was doing in Texas he didn't say much. I let it go. He told me he had a girlfriend and they got along good. He seemed happy enough. Before I knew it, it was time to go and Mike was heading back to Texas the next day. It never occurred to me that I would never see him again.

When I heard what was happening in Waco I called Mikes parents to find out what was going on but they were already in Texas. I watched it all on tv and I was stunned. They kept talking about a military style compound... It didn't make sense to me. I saw the fighting, and eventually the building going up in flames. And then it was over. It was the first time I had ever seen a crime scene bulldozed without an investigation.

I heard all the rumors and the "official explanation". It was some time later that I got to talk to Mikes parents. It seems that Mike was the first person killed that day. The bad part was, he wasn't even at the house. He and another man were in town when the fighting started. When he heard what was happening he tried to get back there but the roads were blocked. They went cross-country to try to reach the house but were met near the fence by ATF agents. I don't know who told them or how they found out, but they insisted that Mike was shot in the back of the head execution style, unarmed and on his knees. I saw the pain in their eyes and heard the anguish in their voices when they told me. I believe them. An ATF agent was later photographed wearing Mikes baseball cap, a trophy he claimed from his kill. One of my best friends was dead.

I was also informed that the media was prevented from filming the front side of the house throughout the entire event. When the women and children tried to escape the burning building some were cut down by machine guns, the rest herded back into the burning house by gunfire. The front side of the building riddled with bullet holes was allegedly the reason the house was bulldozed before an investigation could take place. I believe that also.

If all they wanted to do was arrest Koresh they could have done that earlier that same day when he was in town, unarmed, and with only one other person. Simple. But it didn't happen that way. And I would really like to know why.

Thanks for this. The evil was alive then, as it is now.

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
An ATF agent was later photographed wearing Mikes baseball cap, a trophy he claimed from his kill. One of my best friends was dead.

Damn man, that's just F*cked up right there!!

I'm feel sorry for you man. I'm sure that must leave you with a lot of anger and confusion that really has nowhere to go but inside to work through.

Waco was one of the most horrible things our government enforcers have done to it's own people in almost full public view. Too bad nobody was held accountable for anything that was done there. Typical. As we all know, it also isn't the last time they'll be caught doing such things to us or anyone else they choose around the globe.

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
I might be able to provide a perspective on Waco that others may not. I knew one of the people who died there and I met David Koresh.

One of the men who died there was one of my best friends in high school. He was also the drummer in our garage band. The last picture I saw of him was playing drums behind Koresh. He was a good friend and not a wacko or lunatic. He really was one of the nicest people I knew. I miss him.

I remember meeting David Koresh. He had a way of looking at you that made you feel uncomfortable. Not threatened, just uncomfortable. We spoke for a few minutes and I didn't like him much. He just rubbed me the wrong way. I spent the rest of my time talking to my friend Mike. When I asked him what he was doing in Texas he didn't say much. I let it go. He told me he had a girlfriend and they got along good. He seemed happy enough. Before I knew it, it was time to go and Mike was heading back to Texas the next day. It never occurred to me that I would never see him again.

When I heard what was happening in Waco I called Mikes parents to find out what was going on but they were already in Texas. I watched it all on tv and I was stunned. They kept talking about a military style compound... It didn't make sense to me. I saw the fighting, and eventually the building going up in flames. And then it was over. It was the first time I had ever seen a crime scene bulldozed without an investigation.

I heard all the rumors and the "official explanation". It was some time later that I got to talk to Mikes parents. It seems that Mike was the first person killed that day. The bad part was, he wasn't even at the house. He and another man were in town when the fighting started. When he heard what was happening he tried to get back there but the roads were blocked. They went cross-country to try to reach the house but were met near the fence by ATF agents. I don't know who told them or how they found out, but they insisted that Mike was shot in the back of the head execution style, unarmed and on his knees. I saw the pain in their eyes and heard the anguish in their voices when they told me. I believe them. An ATF agent was later photographed wearing Mikes baseball cap, a trophy he claimed from his kill. One of my best friends was dead.

I was also informed that the media was prevented from filming the front side of the house throughout the entire event. When the women and children tried to escape the burning building some were cut down by machine guns, the rest herded back into the burning house by gunfire. The front side of the building riddled with bullet holes was allegedly the reason the house was bulldozed before an investigation could take place. I believe that also.

If all they wanted to do was arrest Koresh they could have done that earlier that same day when he was in town, unarmed, and with only one other person. Simple. But it didn't happen that way. And I would really like to know why.

Sad thing this was pre-PATRIOT act. It's gotten a LOT worse...