1 John 1:9 and the Filling of the Holy Spirit

a reply to: Akragon

Revelation was written by John, the same Apostle that recorded the Gospel of John. It even reflect the same syllable metering.

Faith is the origins of works. Without faith, there are no works. The quality of works that come from a believer in Christ differ from the quality of works from a believer in Buddah or Allah. The teachings are different, therefore the faith is different, therefore the motivation is different.

Christian maturity is not without works, but it must be rooted in faith. That is my point. Jesus Himself specified that faith must be directed towards the Son (John 3). So works without first having faith in Christ are dead.

Im not trying to tear down the idea of doing good deeds. Im just saying that those deeds must be done according to God's standards. Those are the same standard that were disclosed to us in the Gospels, and by the Apostles. Faith first. Then works. You dont harvest fruit without first sowing the seed.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Revelation was written by John, the same Apostle that recorded the Gospel of John. It even reflect the same syllable metering.

That is beside the point...

One is coming from the mind of John, and the other(s) are words that Jesus supposedly said...

Faith is the origins of works. Without faith, there are no works.

that is not correct...

Works can come from anyone OF any Faith, or lack there of...

The quality of works that come from a believer in Christ differ from the quality of works from a believer in Buddah or Allah. The teachings are different, therefore the faith is different, therefore the motivation is different.

No... works are done because its loving action... not always to please a "god" of sorts...

Christian maturity is not without works, but it must be rooted in faith. That is my point. Jesus Himself specified that faith must be directed towards the Son (John 3). So works without first having faith in Christ are dead.

IF "Christian maturity" is rooted in Faith in him, then you do as he asked of you.... which is works of the spirit to show said faith... without which that person is nothing but talk

Im not trying to tear down the idea of doing good deeds. Im just saying that those deeds must be done according to God's standards. Those are the same standard that were disclosed to us in the Gospels, and by the Apostles. Faith first. Then works. You dont harvest fruit without first sowing the seed.

SO what you're saying is when a Christian does a "good deed" God applauds... yet when an atheist does the same "deed" he is shunned

Perhaps you don't realise that God calls who he will... and belief has nothing to do with it...

a reply to: Akragon

SO what you're saying is when a Christian does a "good deed" God applauds... yet when an atheist does the same "deed" he is shunned

Look, Jesus said that the only way to the Father is through the Son. He directed faith to the Son. Its in John 3. Jesus obviously valued faith. A muslim does not have faith in the Son, neither do Buddhist or atheists. How can there be fruit with no seed?? According to Jesus, the works of a non-believer are unacceptable. First our sins must be paid for so that our nature can be redeemed. Then and only then can our works can be examined.

John 3... “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17 “For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18 “He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Buddah, Mohammad, Ghandi all taught good works, yet Jesus told us that He was the ONLY way to the Father. If the focus were on works, then Jesus would have said that any teacher of good works was a way to the Father...but that is not the case.

John 14:6 6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me. 7 “If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him.”

Jesus identified Himself as the way, not anyone else. Anyone can teach "good works". Only Jesus taught faith before works.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Look, Jesus said that the only way to the Father is through the Son.

Meaning said person must be accepted by him... how would that happen if you don't do anything to show you're listening?

He directed faith to the Son. Its in John 3. Jesus obviously valued faith. A muslim does not have faith in the Son, neither do Buddhist or atheists. How can there be fruit with no seed??

Wouldn't you say "God" plants that seed?

or is it you and who you say is acceptable?

According to Jesus, the works of a non-believer are unacceptable. First our sins must be paid for so that our nature can be redeemed. Then and only then can our works can be examined.

No.. You're mixing Jesus with Paul....

HE did not say that...

Jesus said man will be judged by his actions in this life...

Buddah, Mohammad, Ghandi all taught good works, yet Jesus told us that He was the ONLY way to the Father. If the focus were on works, then Jesus would have said that any teacher of good works was a way to the Father...but that is not the case.

His WAY... was works...

Have you actually read the gospels?

Did Jesus just sit around preaching or did he go out into the world and show what "God" can do?

John 14:6 6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me. 7 “If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; from now on you know Him, and have seen Him.”

IF you know him, you know what he asked of you.... that is why he is "the truth, the life, and the way"

Only Jesus taught faith before works.

NO... he didn't...

He taught that "IF you have Faith... Prove it... Show it... and Live IT"

a reply to: Akragon

Yes, I have read the gospels, many times and it is obvious to me that works without faith are dead. Therefore the works of an atheist are DEAD. Im not detracting from the concept of works, Im just pointing out that faith must come first. You are the one trying to make faith out to be a useless quality. That is what you are saying, when you say that the works of an atheist (one who has absolutely no faith) are acceptable in God's eyes.

Jesus was clear about His desire for us. He wanted us to believe IN Him, and to show our faith through our works. This is cleaning the inside BEFORE cleaning the outside. He is the vine and we are the twigs baring fruit. NO OTHER TEACHER OF GOOD WORKS CAN BE THE VINE. Jesus was NOT just telling us to listen to His words, but to literally BELIEVE IN HIM.

You have a very large hole in your field of vision. I dont mean this disrespectfully, but for your sake I hope you re-assess what you think you know about Jesus and His message. Narrow is the true gate, and works without faith (dead works) is a very large opening.

PS
With that, I will say good night to you, and I sincerely hope that you will meditate on what I said. I say this because I love you. Not to be wierd, but the possibility of eternaty in hell should not be taken lightly. We only get one lifetime to make up our minds about what we believe.

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

How do you believe in him?

By words or by action?

a reply to: Akragon

How do you love? With your heart or with actions alone?

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

The heart is but feeling... action is required to show that feeling...

Unless its nothing but a smile...

in which case you brighten someone's day so its still an action...



P.S

Not to be wierd, but the possibility of eternaty in hell should not be taken lightly.

WtF?

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: borntowatch

Faith does not guarantee salvation, serving God and (trying) being loyal to His laws does

What Im about to say, I say not for the sake of disagreement, but for the benefit of any who potentially misunderstand.

Faith and acknowledgment are two different things. Acknowledgment is an academic understanding of a concept, whereas faith is confidence in that concept.

Satan understands that Jesus is God, but he does not have confidence (faith) in Him, or else satan would never have revolted.

Salvation/Eternal Life comes ONLY by faith/confidence in Christ's payment for our sins. I CANNOT STRESS THAT ENOUGH. Read all of John 3; we are told to have faith in Christ for salvation, but never are we told to accompany that faith with work. Faith is a reciprocation of love to God. If you add your works to saving faith, you are telling God that His love is not sufficient. This is the issue between Cain and Abel. Abel gave a blood offering to reflect attonement for sins. Cain offered his works to God. God was pleased in the burnt offering, and disgusted with fruit of Cain's labor. Faith in Christ is in itself repentance: you turned away from your bondage in sin to meet God at the cross.

You can not work for your salvation. Once you have salvation, you cannot lose your salvation. You will never find one single instance of an authentic believer "losing" his/her salvation. You will find passages that demonstrate people who have acknowledged the gospel, but never believed in it. Those people never had salvation to begin with.

If you have mixed faith with works in hopes of recieving salvation, that is an acknowledgment of the gospel, but a blatant rejection of it's veracity.

Believe on the Son and you will have everlasting life.

Confession is a post-born-again function. In the process of growing up, there are works of righteousness involved. In order for those efforts to count, we must confess our sins so that the Holy Spirit can work through us. Works without confession are wood, hay, and stubble for the fire. Works through the Holy Spirit via confession are prescious stones that reflect God's glory.

Spoken like a true Calvinist.

I disagree strongly, I know many who act like they are Christian but show no fruit of the Spirit.

The story of the Prodigal is very clear, a son who turns from his father and is no longer a son, till he repents.

The Jews were chosen then unchosen.

James states "show me your faith and I will show you my works"

There is a balance between faith only and actions carried out in relation to the fruit all true Christians show.

The parable of the tares and wheat teaches that many in the church who believe wont receive salvation
www.meetingwithchrist.com...(21-23).htm

I assume you are a Calvinist, I am not

Many call Jesus lord, few serve Him as lord

a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

The disciples were charged with the mission to declare the gospel, so the "declaration part" was implied by context.

The context was that Jesus basically disappeared, then reappears to the disciples in the upper room.
The commission was given at a later meeting.
Your quote is, according to the Gospel of John, the first things Jesus said to his disciples after being killed.
In that context, the forgiveness or lack of, would be towards the Jews and Romans.
You could put it together that he meant, "Go ahead and forgive Pilate, if you want. If you think that the Jews are really to blame, just leave off forgiving them."
This goes along with my theory that the central issue behind the gospels is the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple.
The Romans did the physical destruction but at the instigation of the Jews who pushed them to it, just like Jesus and his being killed.

I don't know what the "New Orthodoxy" is, but I draw my conclusions by context and cross referencing related verse.

I thought you might look up "Mark Driscoll" under 'books' in Amazon to see what I was talking about.
It is a book that he was a co-writer on named, Doctrine: What Christians Should Believe.
"The new orthodoxy" is a phrase that I picked up from the fans of this book.
My point is that your salvation theory fits right in with this Dispensationalist style salvation theory promoted by what I call "The Tough-Guy Sinner Cult".

a reply to: borntowatch

Im not a Calvinist. I interpret the bible for myself taking context and related passages together. Needless to say, I disagree with you.

originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest
a reply to: borntowatch

Im not a Calvinist. I interpret the bible for myself taking context and related passages together. Needless to say, I disagree with you.

One of the biggest problems with Protestantism above. God did NOT give everyone reading the written Word
the authority to interpret it. He gave that authority to the Church, it is the Church who compiled Scripture.
She decided the Canon, it was Pope Damasus in 382 A.D. Read the Douay-Rheims footnotes to help you
understand the tough verses. www.drbo.org... There is not one verse in the OT or the NT that ceronflicts
with another if you go by the Church, her interpretation of the Bible. And...can't ignore....

Protestants accept the New Testament Canon decided by the Roman Catholic Church.

Private Judgment of Scripture IS heresy. The fruit, error and division. Look, these two fellas argue because they each personally believe something different!

God's "awakening" can't come to soon. Well, He knows the moment when most souls will be touched.

a reply to: colbe

Read 1 Corinthians 12, 13, and 14. God bestowed spiritual gifts to the individual members of the Church. Among those gifts are the gifts of prophecy and knowledge. The Pope is not the final authority on anything. As far as Im concerned, the Pope has absolutely no legitimate authority. I dont claim to know everything, but what I do know about the NT doctrines resonate with the OT.