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1 John 1:9 and the Filling of the Holy Spirit

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posted on Jul, 12 2014 @ 08:38 AM
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a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Jesus died to pay for our sins. That's the only reason we can cite our sins to God and receive forgiveness, because we are citing neutralized sins. Jesus came to purchase and separate His redeemed from the world, with His blood. His believers are unified in His body, but aside from that, Jesus' death did not bring the world together.
I don't know where you are getting any of this from.
The entire world was redeemed, metaphorically, from the old method of salvation, which was following the books of Moses.
Jesus replaced the material Israel with a spiritual Israel that anyone could be a member of through believing in Jesus.
Sins do not somehow need, or needed at some point in the past, to be "paid" for.
Repentance is the mechanism on our side for forgiveness, forgetting is the mechanism for forgiveness on God's part.
People are brought together because of the universal nature of salvation, where you do not tell if someone else is "saved" by the way he cuts his hair, or the clothes he wears, or the food he eats, whether or not he has a beard, or if he is circumcised.
We are all equal in God's sight, and not discriminated against based on what tribe we belong to.
We can "cite" our sins, as I mentioned earlier, much like alcoholics can cite their sobriety condition in AA meetings, to encourage each other to purity from sin.




posted on Jul, 12 2014 @ 09:06 AM
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a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

I don't believe that water baptism removes sin, only the blood of the Lamb can do that.
Baptism "removes" us from the realm of sin by symbolically 'crossing over' like the Israelites from the "flesh pots" of Egypt, to the desert, where they could worship God.
This affirms our repentance and entering into the kingdom through joining with Christ.
There is this verse in this section of 1 John which is the subject of this thread, talking about being "cleansed" by the blood.
An analogy could be alcoholics being cleansed of their drinking, over cups of coffee at their AA meetings.
The cup of wine shared in Christian communion is symbolic of Jesus' blood, and through that shared experience and our openness about the sins of the world we are leaving behind, we are cleansed from those old practices.
John was talking about practical, real world things, not purely conceptual things like some sort of hypothetical sin guilt inadvertently left on the books in some cosmic record.

Furthermore, for a believer in Christ, there is no "mortal sin" that results in loss of Eternal Life.
John doesn't say that.
He says there are sins that are not "unto death".
He probably is saying that you don't need to clutter up meetings talking about every little mistake that you think could possibly be considered a sin, and to focus on the real stuff that is unmistakably a serious sin that might just send you straight to hell.

There is Sin Unto Death, which is a disciplinary response to sin on God's behalf that results in a most painful and humiliating death on the apostate believer, but never a loss of Eternal Life.
This is just pure fantasy.
Then you go on and on in this delusional state.
Being cleansed of sins to the writer of 1 John means not committing sins.
Why in the world would God set up a system for man to live by that allows every sort of atrocity against his fellow man?

When Satan seeks to accuse us, Christ points out that the sin in question was already imputed to the cross.
The Bible never teaches anything even remotely like this.
What was "nailed" (metaphorically speaking) was those ordinances and curses against us contained in the books of Moses.
We are under a metaphorical new covenant that was metaphorically put into effect at Jesus death because as Paul says in Galatians, he became a curse for us because the law says that every man hung on a tree is accursed.
He was vindicated by the resurrection, thus doing away with that curse and the entire list of laws where it is contained.
As Paul says in Romans, he was made "sin" for us, meaning he was killed as a sinner, after the model of the Suffering Servant in the story in Isaiah 53
edit on 12-7-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 12 2014 @ 11:00 AM
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a reply to: jmdewey60

The bible say 'believe on the Son and you shall have everlasting life'. It teaches that Jesus died for our sin, and to confess our sins or else the truth is not in us.

You can take that symbolically if you want, but the message seem staightforward to me.

Once you start 'philosophizing' the Word of God, you are playing with fire.

I cannot bring myself to agreement with you on these issues.



posted on Jul, 12 2014 @ 11:31 AM
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a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

It teaches that Jesus died for our sin . . .
"Your sin" that it is talking about is the reality that in this world, in your physical body, you are "sin", apart from specific incidents of committing what should be known to you as sinful acts.
Jesus died for that, the sin of the world.
It says not just your sins, but of the entire world.
It can only mean that it is not for specific individual sins, but the natural sinfulness of being a human being, regardless of how other wise holy and free from committing blatant sins you may be.
Jesus became "sin".
It says that right in the New Testament.
2 Corinthians 5:21
God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
(2011 NIV)
Please tell me what that means if it doesn't mean what I am talking about.
Jesus became a human being, a body of flesh and blood, corrupted by generations sinning, over thousands of years, exactly as we are.
But God saw fit to raise him from the dead, thus making merely being human not a thing to be condemned to hell for.

Once you start 'philosophizing' the Word of God, you are playing with fire.
You have to read it as it was written.
Sometimes the writers are "philosophizing".
If you cannot accept that, then you will never understand the Bible.

I cannot bring myself to agreement with you on these issues.
I base my opinions on what the Bible actually says.
You base yours on wishful thinking, that whatever you think, must be right, because you think so.
edit on 12-7-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 12 2014 @ 08:01 PM
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originally posted by: BELIEVERpriest

originally posted by: colbe
I have a question.

After water Baptism (removes Original Sin), when we sin mortally (sin onto death), how do you restore God's presence
in your soul?


I dont believe that water baptism removes sin, only the blood of the Lamb can do that. Upon faith in Christ, we are baptized in the Holy Spirit, as well as in the Father and Son. Furthermore, for a believer in Christ, there is no "mortal sin" that results in loss of Eternal Life. There is Sin Unto Death, which is a disciplinary response to sin on God's behalf that results in a most painful and humiliating death on the apostate believer, but never a loss of Eternal Life.

To avoid Sin Unto Death, and other disciplinary responses, or at least convert that discipline into suffered-blessing, all one must do is cite/confess/acknowledge his/her known sins directly to God the Father. He doesnt want an apology, but a citation of the sin that was paid for by Christ. This citation is similar to citation of annotated law in modern court cases. Our confessions glorify Christ before Satan in the Supreme Court of Heaven. When Satan seeks to accuse us, Christ points out that the sin in question was already IMPUTED to the cross.


You are "born again" spiritually as Jesus explained to Nicodemus at water Baptism. Baptism removes Original Sin which all people -less two- J+M, have on their soul at birth. There are greater and lessor sins (1John 5:16-17), lessor sins are called venial sins, God's presence remains in your soul. Mortal sin, the "sin onto death" MUST be with true contrition, confessed to God. You lose God's presence in your soul when you commit a mortal sin. Catholics must go to a Confession. Jesus established Sacramental Confession (John 20:23). Since Protestants reject this, their only recourse is a personal confession to God directly. No offense but...

What in the world does "there is Sin Unto Death, which is a disciplinary response to sin on God's behalf that results in a most painful and humiliating death on the apostate believer, but never a loss of Eternal Life" mean?

It is not true as you say, one can never lose eternal life (salvation). This comes from the awful OSAS heresy and the "imputation" Jesus did it all on the Cross, your sins are covered, you're in, you're saved, both are not of God. Who is in Hell then? What about your lives lived and at death, God's judgment of your life? The "imputation" heresy came partly from Martin Luther's lie that humanity is completely depraved. No we're not, we have a fallen nature AND are capable of good. So, the "imputation" heresy goes, Jesus perfect righteous and perfect sacrifice on the Cross covers your sins. What nonsense. Our Lord opened Heaven by His death on the Cross. He redeemed mankind,
Our justification is life long. We have a choice until we die to follow God's way or reject Him. It is a daily spiritual battle but with the help of God's grace we persevere to

Speaking out of two sides of the mouth...

..."all one must do is cite/CONFESS/acknowledge his/her known sins directly to God the Father. He doesn't want an apology, but a citation of the sin that was paid for by Christ."

All you have to do is confess your sins, God "doesn't want an apology" (true repentance) for your sins are already paid for by Christ. What! Where is the logic, why confess your sins if they've already been remitted by Our Lord? OSAS and the "imputation" heresies are easier for sure, they are not true.

God bless you BELIEVERpriest,


colbe

p.s. Very important, remember Our Lord's words in John 20:23. Jesus said to the disciples in the room "whose sins you shall forgive"...these words mean, sins have to FIRST be heard to be forgiven. The Apostles and male disciples were the first ministerial priests. They would do as Jesus directed them, administer the Sacrament of Confession.



posted on Jul, 12 2014 @ 08:07 PM
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Correcting, finishing one sentence in my last reply. I really need to check preview before posting.

"Our justification is life long. We have a choice until we die to follow God's way or reject Him. It is a daily spiritual battle but with the help of God's grace we persevere to THE END.



posted on Jul, 12 2014 @ 08:19 PM
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originally posted by: Jesuslives4u

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: Jesuslives4u

First... where the hell do you live?

And do you have any idea what you're talking about?

Do you know what a Satanist is for that matter?

Most of what you just wrote is either specifically about your area and whats happening within, in which case... damn!

OR

You just attribute everything that's bad in this world to "Satanists" which you likely don't even understand... so all of the above is just nonsense

Not to come off cocky here, but honestly... get real brother



First: I am a retired police officer with over two decades in police training and field work. I have worked in both North and Southern USA. So.......what about you smartazz?

SECOND: Whether you want to believe it or not - I don't care.

I damn well know what a Satanist is from a Christian aspect and from a police officer.

Stand down.


As a repentant sinner, foolish bride and baby Christian, by your words and your condemnation of others; I dont see much of what I would call Christianity.
Please dont be offended, I just dont see any fruit of the Spirit in your words.

Anyway on to the OP

Reading the OP post I semi agree, I am sure that confession is very important, though confession by its definition should lead to self condemnation and then full repentance, repentance that turns in to accepting forgiveness for your sin, and then receiving that forgiveness

I think the OPs message is a seed that needs to be grown
Salvation is obtained by faith, that word obtained means accepted by faith.
salvation is proven by the acts of the Christian, the fruit of the Spirit shown to the world by their actions.

Faith does not guarantee salvation, serving God and
(trying) being loyal to His laws does
edit on b2014Sat, 12 Jul 2014 20:34:36 -050073120146pm312014-07-12T20:34:36-05:00 by borntowatch because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 12 2014 @ 08:43 PM
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originally posted by: colbe

p.s. Very important, remember Our Lord's words in John 20:23. Jesus said to the disciples in the room "whose sins you shall forgive"...these words mean, sins have to FIRST be heard to be forgiven. The Apostles and male disciples were the first ministerial priests. They would do as Jesus directed them, administer the Sacrament of Confession.



No that is not true at all, that is very wrong.
That is a blatant misrepresentation of the Gospel.

Jesus calls us to forgive all sins, even sins that people have committed against us and havnt been confessed.

Where does the bible teach that sin must first be confessed before WE forgive.

On the cross Christ forgave His persecutors whilst dying and they had not confessed. Jesus healed many people and told them their sins were forgiven and they had not confessed.
St Stephen forgave his persecutors while they stoned him, no confession from the persecutors recorded.

Your opinion is a negative gospel

If I acknowledge anothers sins I am obligated to forgive them, trusting them is a different matter



posted on Jul, 12 2014 @ 10:14 PM
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originally posted by: borntowatch

originally posted by: colbe

p.s. Very important, remember Our Lord's words in John 20:23. Jesus said to the disciples in the room "whose sins you shall forgive"...these words mean, sins have to FIRST be heard to be forgiven. The Apostles and male disciples were the first ministerial priests. They would do as Jesus directed them, administer the Sacrament of Confession.



No that is not true at all, that is very wrong.
That is a blatant misrepresentation of the Gospel.

Jesus calls us to forgive all sins, even sins that people have committed against us and havnt been confessed.

Where does the bible teach that sin must first be confessed before WE forgive.
On the cross Christ forgave His persecutors whilst dying and they had not confessed. Jesus healed many people and told them their sins were forgiven and they had not confessed.
St Stephen forgave his persecutors while they stoned him, no confession from the persecutors recorded.

Your opinion is a negative gospel

If I acknowledge anothers sins I am obligated to forgive them, trusting them is a different matter


Hi,



posted on Jul, 12 2014 @ 11:33 PM
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a reply to: colbe

John 3:5 Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.


John 3:5 says born of water, not baptized in water. The theme of the passage in question is being 'born again', which naturally implies two births: birth by water (fluids of the womb) and birth by spirit (spiritual regeneration in Christ).

I have been baptized by water, but that was a mere symbol. My salvation came through faith in Christ alone. If you add an action to that initial faith (faith+works) then you are not saved yet. That is the heresy that stands in the way of so many who are seeking God. They seek the Father by their works, and not through Christ.

All of our sins are forgiven via the cross, but we have to believe in Christ for His righteousness to be credited to us. Once saved, we confess our sins, not for maintanence of salvation, but to acknowledge the discipline that God dispenses to us when we step out of line. It is part of the spiritual growth process. A believer's confession to God demonstrates the 'Father-child' relationship between us and God. It is a private matter between the believer and God. An "ordained priest" has no business in hearing another person's confession. That is heresy.

OSAS is not heresy, it is simply misunderstood. I will not go digging for passages to make that point, however if you wish to bring some to my attention, I will respond with biblical support of OSAS. Salvation is God's plan. We have no part in earning it. It is offered to the whole world, but only those who express faith actually accept the gift.

Repentance and guilt are two separate things. Repentance literally means to turn around or return, whereas guilt is an emotion. Repentance is a decision that requires thinking and free will. Emotion can not think, but can only motivate or inspire thought. Often times, guilt is the motivating factor that leads to repentance, but that is not always the case. God does not need our apologies, He has retro-actively forgiven us already. He simply wants us to confess our sins when needed, and move on. We all experience emotion from time to time, it is a natural phenomenon, but it is not necessarily relevant in our relationship with God. Often times, emotion will cloud our minds. God never intended for us to be a bunch of wet blankets.



posted on Jul, 13 2014 @ 12:01 AM
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a reply to: borntowatch

Faith does not guarantee salvation, serving God and (trying) being loyal to His laws does


What Im about to say, I say not for the sake of disagreement, but for the benefit of any who potentially misunderstand.

Faith and acknowledgment are two different things. Acknowledgment is an academic understanding of a concept, whereas faith is confidence in that concept.

Satan understands that Jesus is God, but he does not have confidence (faith) in Him, or else satan would never have revolted.

Salvation/Eternal Life comes ONLY by faith/confidence in Christ's payment for our sins. I CANNOT STRESS THAT ENOUGH. Read all of John 3; we are told to have faith in Christ for salvation, but never are we told to accompany that faith with work. Faith is a reciprocation of love to God. If you add your works to saving faith, you are telling God that His love is not sufficient. This is the issue between Cain and Abel. Abel gave a blood offering to reflect attonement for sins. Cain offered his works to God. God was pleased in the burnt offering, and disgusted with fruit of Cain's labor. Faith in Christ is in itself repentance: you turned away from your bondage in sin to meet God at the cross.

You can not work for your salvation. Once you have salvation, you cannot lose your salvation. You will never find one single instance of an authentic believer "losing" his/her salvation. You will find passages that demonstrate people who have acknowledged the gospel, but never believed in it. Those people never had salvation to begin with.

If you have mixed faith with works in hopes of recieving salvation, that is an acknowledgment of the gospel, but a blatant rejection of it's veracity.

Believe on the Son and you will have everlasting life.

Confession is a post-born-again function. In the process of growing up, there are works of righteousness involved. In order for those efforts to count, we must confess our sins so that the Holy Spirit can work through us. Works without confession are wood, hay, and stubble for the fire. Works through the Holy Spirit via confession are prescious stones that reflect God's glory.



posted on Jul, 13 2014 @ 12:41 AM
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a reply to: colbe

John 20:23 "If you forgive the sins of any, their sins have been forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they have been retained."


This verse does not give man the authority to forgive sin. As it stands in english, it is poorly translated. The Disciples were charged with declaring the gospel. They had authority to declare to those that rejected the gospell that their sins had not been forgiven from the past. And to those who accepted the gospel, that God had already forgiven them.

The following is an explanatory translation of John 20:23 to reflect the Greek perfect tenses:

"If you delcare (presently) the forgiveness of the sins of any (who believe), their sins have been forgiven them already (from the past continuing into eternaty); if you declare the retention of sins of any (who do not believe), their sins have been retained already (from the past continuing into the future)."

This is not a new concept, infact it is a recycled teaching from John 3:18.


John 3:18 “He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.


Catholic priests have no business in hearing the cofessions of an individual.



posted on Jul, 13 2014 @ 12:44 AM
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a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Im sorry... but it sounds like you're selling a licence to sin...

I don't believe rewriting doctrine in Christianity is allowed... though it seems like a regular thing around here...

So I could be wrong...




posted on Jul, 13 2014 @ 12:45 AM
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a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

All of our sins are forgiven via the cross, but we have to believe in Christ for His righteousness to be credited to us.
None of this is biblical but part of the cultish "new orthodoxy" thanks to people like Mark Driscoll.



posted on Jul, 13 2014 @ 12:58 AM
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a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

"If you declare (presently) the forgiveness of the sins of any (who believe), their sins have been forgiven them already (from the past continuing into eternity); if you declare the retention of sins of any (who do not believe), their sins have been retained already (from the past continuing into the future)."
The two words, forgiven and retained, are in the perfect tense.
Perfect means that it is a completed thing, rather than ongoing.
If you forgave someone, then that is, according to this verse, in the past, so you don't have to keep forgiving them every day for the rest of your lives.

The "declaring" part you added, going along with the "new orthodoxy" argument, that things are so through declarations.

edit on 13-7-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jul, 13 2014 @ 01:25 AM
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a reply to: Akragon

Im not rewriting anything. These are NT teachings. Im not selling a license to sin, but showing a way to move past sin. Confess and keep moving. If a believer uses that as a license to sin, they do that at their own expense, and there are consequences.

You only accept the gospels, so I dont really expect you to understand the true depth of 1 John 1:9.



posted on Jul, 13 2014 @ 01:32 AM
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a reply to: jmdewey60


The "declaring" part you added


Yes, that is why I said it was an explanatory translation. The translaters of the Septuagint employed the same method. The disciples were charged with the mission to declare the gospel, so the "declaration part" was implied by context.

I dont know what the "New Orthodoxy" is, but I draw my conclusions by context and cross referencing related verse.



posted on Jul, 13 2014 @ 01:37 AM
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a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

you're amusing to say the least

Are you actually trying to say that John knew better then Jesus?

Of course this is coming from the same guy that claims Christians are priests...

I would say you are hardly anyone to say what I might understand... all things considered...




posted on Jul, 13 2014 @ 01:57 AM
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a reply to: Akragon

Im not trying to dictate what you understand, Im just suggesting that the perspective of someone who accepts both OT and NT alike as the word of God can vary greatly from that of someone who limits Gods word to the gospels only. I didnt mean any disrespect.

Im glad I amuse you.

I think John taught what Jesus taught him along with what he already knew from the OT. Remember, that Jesus appointed John as one of the Apostles with the charge to spread Jesus word. John's epistles should not be written off.



posted on Jul, 13 2014 @ 02:06 AM
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a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Perhaps you misunderstand me... I do not write off the NT...

Im not a fan of Paul... but he has his uses... specifically his view on love which is actually beyond reproach

Revelation is bunk... and rest of the NT actually is great reading, but nothing in comparison to the gospels

What you've basically been saying for the past few posts is that nothing can remove this "saved" status you speak of... As if you have the golden ticket to heaven... Now I don't actually have an issue with this idea, but its not reserved for "Christians only"... My issue is that you seem to think "Faith" is the only thing that is necessary... Which is just wrong...

Faith is nothing but words without action...

This doctrine is a lie...

and I mean no offence by saying this either but... seriously

You should know this


edit on 13-7-2014 by Akragon because: (no reason given)






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