Mysterious Earthen Rings Predate Amazon Rainforest

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Mysterious Earthen Rings Predate Amazon Rainforest



Image from article.

A series of square, straight and ringlike ditches scattered throughout the Bolivian and Brazilian Amazon were there before the rainforest existed, a new study finds.

These human-made structures remain a mystery: They may have been used for defense, drainage, or perhaps ceremonial or religious reasons. But the new research addresses another burning question: whether and how much prehistoric people altered the landscape in the Amazon before the arrival of Europeans.

Very interesting article. I had always assumed that the Amazon rainforest was there when humans first migrated to that area. Now these discoveries and study suggest that many of these areas were in fact more like the African savannas.

I also remember a lot of questions about the amount of people being able to build structures there. Less people are needed if you have to clear less of the land.

Any way, I thought others on here might find it an interesting read.

From the link:

Since the 1980s, however, deforestation has revealed massive earthworks in the form of ditches up to 16 feet (5 meters) deep, and often just as wide.

Pretty big ditches. So what did they use these for?

Moats? Flood barriers? Defense against big critters?

Too bad we have to deforest the planet to make these discoveries. I prefer the forest for the trees.

a reply to: eriktheawful

I would like to know more about the rings, but that photo of the once-upon-a-time "Amazon rain forest' is horrible to see. Humans are the only animal that destroys forests, most of it for meat-eating, and to see the clear-cutting of the amazing Amazon makes me think that the world is run by very stupid people. Folks who do something like that should be in prison, or at least have their cutting tools taken away.

originally posted by: intrptr

From the link:

Since the 1980s, however, deforestation has revealed massive earthworks in the form of ditches up to 16 feet (5 meters) deep, and often just as wide.

Pretty big ditches. So what did they use these for?

Moats? Flood barriers? Defense against big critters?

Too bad we have to deforest the planet to make these discoveries. I prefer the forest for the trees.

According to the article, they really do not know yet.

But 16 feet deep? That's a big ditch.

When I was a kid living in San Diego in the early 1970s, me and my cousin would go out wandering around, and they had these HUGE spill ways that were basically concrete ditches designed for flash flooding.

I'm not saying that's what these were for, but that is what I first thought of when I read the article.

originally posted by: Aleister
a reply to: eriktheawful

I would like to know more about the rings, but that photo of the once-upon-a-time "Amazon rain forest' is horrible to see. Humans are the only animal that destroys forests, most of it for meat-eating, and to see the clear-cutting of the amazing Amazon makes me think that the world is run by very stupid people. Folks who do something like that should be in prison, or at least have their cutting tools taken away.

I have to agree with much of what you say.

Then that nagging curiosity wants them to move everything out of the way to see. Curiosity over want to preserve the Earth.

Certainly glad I do not have to make decisions like that!

a reply to: intrptr

By no means would we have to deforest the landscape to find what lies on its surface, LIDAR could have been used to reveal an accurate surface image of the forest floor like how they have found the ancient temples and city streets of Egypt. LIDAR has successfully been used on forests and built up areas to reveal fine details so I'm pretty sure it would find trenches which are 5 meters deep and 5 meters wide even in the rainforest.

The subject of the inhabitation of south America has such little information at present that some of these sites must be excavated. This is a fascinating topic which we know so little about, it's quite easy to picture the early hunter gatherers of Europe living in caves and hunting on plains, early man hunting in the winterous climes of the artic and living in mammoth bone shelters or even the earliest men living in Africa. This new discovery shows just how little we actually know about our early ancestors in South America.

a reply to: eriktheawful

Interesting Find !

I'd like to know what they find at the bottom of these 16 ft deep and or wide structures. Any Bones ?

They could of been perimeter traps of some sort ?

leolady

It would probably only take 100-200 years for the forest to grow back going by the way trees grow around here so the earthworks may not be so old. Very interesting though. Good find.

I remember reading a theory that humans actually cultivated the amazon rain forest and this may be something which would back this up.
Once water was being trapped and the theory suggested that it was started as a vast fruit orchard essentially - sorry no links or reference material - i just remember stumbling across the theory years ago. This could explain the vast amounts of fruit bearing trees there.

originally posted by: johnb
I remember reading a theory that humans actually cultivated the amazon rain forest and this may be something which would back this up.
Once water was being trapped and the theory suggested that it was started as a vast fruit orchard essentially - sorry no links or reference material - i just remember stumbling across the theory years ago. This could explain the vast amounts of fruit bearing trees there.

Actually you may be spot on with that.

This is from the article:

The new study suggests that the modern forest is a coproduction between humans and nature, Carson said. Natural cycles drove the rainforest to sprout, but humans stayed on-site for 1,500 years afterward, he said.

"It's very likely, in fact, that people had some kind of effect on the composition of the forest," Carson said. "People might favor edible species, growing in orchards and things like that, [or] altered the soils, changing the soil chemistry and composition, which can have a longer-lasting legacy effect."

a reply to: leolady

They don't mention having found any human remains. That doesn't knock out your theory about them in my opinion

a reply to: johnb

Yes I remember reading and hearing this. Here is some linky's if your interested.


www.telegraph.co.uk...
www.washingtonpost.com...
knowledgenuts.com...

Its a interesting theory.

a reply to: eriktheawful

Awe shucks you beat me to it!

You are awful indeed.

I'm not sure about people spreading forests as much as I am sure that animals do. Birds especially carry seeds afar on the wing in their bellies and deposit them sometimes miles from their origins. Thats why fruit tastes so good, to entice critters to eat them and do precisely that.

By the way, thats why nectar in flowers tastes so good, too. Fauna (unknowingly) tempts the critters and insects (that the trees don't know exist) to pollinate and carry off their seeds.

Now someone will prove me wrong and say trees and flowers know the birds and the bees are there.

a reply to: DodgyDawg

By no means would we have to deforest the landscape…

But once discovered they do remove the overburden (forest) to dig the ruins.

I agree, we don't need to deforest the planet…

a reply to: eriktheawful

Sorry about the delay.

I'm not saying that's what these were for, but that is what I first thought of when I read the article.

Me too. When pitching a tent in rainy country, its wise to dig a trench around it so the rain runs around instead of under it. That saved my young boy scout ass on a few occasions.

But these are ring trenches, 16 feet deep. I see no one else has addressed that. If they were making caches of water with fish for the dry season, just dig a pool. If trying to defend a central location then dig a ring, maybe. Defend from what? 16 feet wide is not really wide enough to prevent swimming across or bridging say, if being attacked.

Curious. Maybe a combination of all three? Water cache, fish stocks and defense from… flood, enemy and critters.

Maybe they were making a last ditch stand from army ants. I hear their swarms used to be huge, much bigger than they are today.

a reply to: Aleister

This might be a bit off topic, but I have to correct the misinformation in your post.

The amazon is not destroyed for meat eating, at all.

The amazon is being destroyed to plant crops such as soy, other beans and sugar cane, primarily soy. Most of the demand stemming from China, and countries like Brazil need to produce like crazy to keep up with that demand.

Cows are used as a cheap and effective tool to help prepare the soil for planting these crops.

Most of the (current) logging is illegal and people who opposite it such as the natives are either threatened, corrupted or killed. This is being driven purely by the rush to meet Chinese demand for soy.

My in-laws are Brazilian "Fazenderos" (Ranchers) - this is not hearsay.

a reply to: Aleister

Well it's fairly obvious the forrest wasn't always there. Removing it isn't the best idea, but Earth existed without it as apparently man did too.

originally posted by: intrptr
I'm not sure about people spreading forests as much as I am sure that animals do. Birds especially carry seeds afar on the wing in their bellies and deposit them sometimes miles from their origins. Thats why fruit tastes so good, to entice critters to eat them and do precisely that.

By the way, thats why nectar in flowers tastes so good, too. Fauna (unknowingly) tempts the critters and insects (that the trees don't know exist) to pollinate and carry off their seeds.

Now someone will prove me wrong and say trees and flowers know the birds and the bees are there.

Most likely not so much in today's modern world, except where we actually plant trees. Many other animals, birds as you cited, do this much more than we humans do now.

However, in the long past, if humans then were eating fruit or any parts of plants that contained seeds, it wouldn't be too far fetched to say that they were helping "spread" the trees around. Most likely by the same method that most birds do now as they may not have had running toilets.



In any case they may have simply helped things along a little bit too.

a reply to: eriktheawful

Interesting find OP they resemble irrigation trenches-ditches or some other plumbing associated trenches-ditches.