The Bellarmine Forum: Cincinnati’s Curious Masonic Church

Cincinnati has long appeared to have a revolving door between the Masonic lodges and the Catholic Church. Having grown up there, I can recall discussions of various people who were both in Knights of Columbus and Masons, and rumors of parishes that were pagan experiments. People talk, and that sort of talk happened way before blogging.

Article Conintues: bellarmineforum.org...

a reply to: FW4ats

Masons would be happy to be friendly with the Catholic church. It's usually the church that closes the door. If there is amity, then it's a great step forward. I was Catholic but have assumed that since I became a mason and have no intention of changing that, that I am excommunicated. But whatever.

BTW, freemasonrywatch is a silly site full of hate. If you read all the claims made against masons, you will eventually see how crazy some of them are. We would be happy to answer questions truthfully if you should ask.

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: FW4ats

Masons would be happy to be friendly with the Catholic church. It's usually the church that closes the door. If there is amity, then it's a great step forward. I was Catholic but have assumed that since I became a mason and have no intention of changing that, that I am excommunicated. But whatever.

BTW, freemasonrywatch is a silly site full of hate. If you read all the claims made against masons, you will eventually see how crazy some of them are. We would be happy to answer questions truthfully if you should ask.

How soon after joining do you have to "ride the goat"?



I kid, I kid. Serious question, what is this that Masons speak of when they refer to as "the craft"? I understand there are many historical lessons that must be administered to the student, but what is the ultimate purpose for this exercise? As a student of the esoteric and mystery schools, I'm curious why Masonry remains shrouded in such darkness when enlightenment is what drives the true Freemason. Fear of persecution? Does this explain the 'temple' reference?

I don't believe in the secreting away of information, of any sort for any purpose. If there's wisdom to be had, it benefits no one at all to keep it to one's self. People will justify their reasons their entire lives, but it's selfish and arrogant to assume that non-Masons (read: the profane) are not on the level and should not be allowed access to whatever information Masons are keeping to themselves, even if purely historical in nature.

I will argue that there is nothing damaging to be told, if the unworthy are truly not worth the dissemination, then there is nothing lost by their disinterest. Secrecy breeds suspicion, but would you says Masons fear another 1312 and this is what motivates the clandestine attitude?

Finally, I'm somewhat incensed by the perception that Masonry has essentially become a social networking club for the wealthy and elite of industry.

Feel free to comment on anything I've said, or not, as you feel necessary.

a reply to: FW4ats
This guy is spamming the forums with this article. Here is what I wrote on reddit:

This would boggle my mind as to why anyone would write this, but seeing the website I'm not surprised at all to see such dreck.

a reply to: yourignoranceisbliss
We use terms and tools from operative Masonry as symbols in speculative (or philosophical) Masonry. Our progressive degrees impart lessons to the initiate so he can better himself and through him better his community. The Temple reference refers to our legendary roots surrounding the building of King Solomon's Temple. In our context, temple is not used in a religious connotation.

www.travelingtemplar.com...

IMO, secrecy can breed trust.

originally posted by: yourignoranceisbliss

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: FW4ats

Masons would be happy to be friendly with the Catholic church. It's usually the church that closes the door. If there is amity, then it's a great step forward. I was Catholic but have assumed that since I became a mason and have no intention of changing that, that I am excommunicated. But whatever.

BTW, freemasonrywatch is a silly site full of hate. If you read all the claims made against masons, you will eventually see how crazy some of them are. We would be happy to answer questions truthfully if you should ask.

How soon after joining do you have to "ride the goat"?

I kid, I kid. Serious question, what is this that Masons speak of when they refer to as "the craft"? I understand there are many historical lessons that must be administered to the student, but what is the ultimate purpose for this exercise? As a student of the esoteric and mystery schools, I'm curious why Masonry remains shrouded in such darkness when enlightenment is what drives the true Freemason. Fear of persecution? Does this explain the 'temple' reference?

I refer to craft masonry, as the blue lodge. There are other aspects of it, like The York and Scottish rites. And in the long ago past, persecution was a reality and masons had to conceal their membership. Now, masons proudly display their rings and emblems on cars and so on, so I am not sure about the "shrouded in darkness" thing.

I don't believe in the secreting away of information, of any sort for any purpose. If there's wisdom to be had, it benefits no one at all to keep it to one's self. People will justify their reasons their entire lives, but it's selfish and arrogant to assume that non-Masons (read: the profane) are not on the level and should not be allowed access to whatever information Masons are keeping to themselves, even if purely historical in nature.

Nothing in the degrees are secret. A novice googler can find all the "secrets" in a few minutes. Now, understanding them and comprehending them....that's a different story. I'll try to explain it quickly and easily.
We confer degrees to men who come to us asking for that knowledge. It's really that simple. Would you like me to sit you down and give you a 4 hour dissertation on the finer points of machine language? Or 2 hours of the different types of moss that grow in south east Asia? Well, unless you were very, very interested in those topics, my time and effort would be wasted. So yea, you have to want to learn in order to have us teach you. But all you have to do is ask.

I will argue that there is nothing damaging to be told, if the unworthy are truly not worth the dissemination, then there is nothing lost by their disinterest. Secrecy breeds suspicion, but would you says Masons fear another 1312 and this is what motivates the clandestine attitude?[quote]
Times have changed since the 1300's. People have a bit less fear since the unknown can be known relatively easy. (IMHO)

Finally, I'm somewhat incensed by the perception that Masonry has essentially become a social networking club for the wealthy and elite of industry.

Feel free to comment on anything I've said, or not, as you feel necessary.

If you went to a lodge in a very affluent neighborhood, you may indeed find the wealthy and elite in a lodge. But in my experience, it's all kinds of men that make up freemasonry. It's poor folks like me, some much better off, and some not so much. But you would be hard pressed to go into any 10 lodges and find more than 2 or 3 super wealthy men I would think. But masonry is what each member makes of it. It can be a beginning to a lifetime of learning, or it can be as mundane as a place to get away from your nagging wife once a month. But all that is up to the individual.

edit on 7-7-2014 by network dude because: tried to fix this horrendous quoting system that seems to be terminally flucked up.

originally posted by: KSigMason
a reply to: FW4ats
This guy is spamming the forums with this article. Here is what I wrote on reddit:

This would boggle my mind as to why anyone would write this, but seeing the website I'm not surprised at all to see such dreck.

Right. So an article that is critical of Masonry, or even just exposes a bit of the 'outside' activity of it's members, is 'spamming the forum'.

Now there is some Masonic logic for you.

The 'light' of 'the craft'.

originally posted by: FW4ats

originally posted by: KSigMason
a reply to: FW4ats
This guy is spamming the forums with this article. Here is what I wrote on reddit:

This would boggle my mind as to why anyone would write this, but seeing the website I'm not surprised at all to see such dreck.

Right. So an article that is critical of Masonry, or even just exposes a bit of the 'outside' activity of it's members, is 'spamming the forum'.

Now there is some Masonic logic for you.

The 'light' of 'the craft'.

no, it's kind of like if I had some pathetic website full of crap, and I didn't think anyone with a brain would read it, I might come here and post stories and link them to that site to generate traffic. If I was a douche bag that is. Luckily I am not and I like to follow the rules of this site.

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: FW4ats

originally posted by: KSigMason
a reply to: FW4ats
This guy is spamming the forums with this article. Here is what I wrote on reddit:

This would boggle my mind as to why anyone would write this, but seeing the website I'm not surprised at all to see such dreck.

Right. So an article that is critical of Masonry, or even just exposes a bit of the 'outside' activity of it's members, is 'spamming the forum'.

Now there is some Masonic logic for you.

The 'light' of 'the craft'.

no, it's kind of like if I had some pathetic website full of crap, and I didn't think anyone with a brain would read it, I might come here and post stories and link them to that site to generate traffic. If I was a douche bag that is. Luckily I am not and I like to follow the rules of this site.

I would also suspect that it contravenes ATS' T&C. Mayhap someone should apprise SkepticOverlord et al for their feedback

Fitz

a reply to: Fitzgibbon

Na, it's too fun to be able to tell him first hand how pitiful his site is. I like when he stops by. Showing how "Christian" he is. Besides, I think we have gotten more membership from sites like that than we ever could by ourselves.

a reply to: Fitzgibbon

a reply to: NavyDoc

Who controls the British crown?
Who keeps the metric system down?
We do, We do.

Who keeps Atlantis off the maps?
Who keeps the Martians under wraps?
We do, we do.

Who keeps back the electric car?
Who makes Steve Guttenberg a star?
We do, we do.

Who robs cavefish of their sight?
Who rigs every Oscar night?
We do, we dooooooo.

Love that song.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

If you have 23 minutes to waste, you can learn the "real" masonic secrets.

But be careful. Once you have obtained the knowledge, you can't take it back!
Muhahahahaha!

a reply to: network dude

Ah, yes, The Hare Club for Men.

I friggin love South park.