To The Freemasons of ATS

originally posted by: JokerThe1st

The past Master denying any knowledge of the 33rd degree was one of them. I do not know if this particular gentlemen was ignorant of the fact or willfully lying to me, the funny part was i pulled out a masonic publication with an article about the current 33rd at the time. His reaction was non-existent and i just got a shrug, that was the end of that conversation.

For the Masons -
I would like to know if you are York Rite could this explain the lack of knowledge of the 33rd degree. I personally highly doubt it as both Scottish and York rite degrees appear side by side on the structure tree.

You have to understand that we Masons see things differently to those who are not Masons. There is no 33° in Masonry, as the Past Master correctly stated - the 33° belongs to a completely different order called the Scottish Rite. Non-Masons struggle to draw the distinction, but for us Masons - it's a matter of fact - it's a separate Order - not Freemasonry.

I cannot imagine that a Past Master would not know of the Scottish Rite - he's probably just being difficult (although, semantically, he is correct in saying there is no 33° in Freemasonry, so he is not lying.)

I belong to the English equivalents of both the Scottish and York rites, but, like KSigMason, I am much more involved in the York Rite Degrees.

a reply to: ParanoidAmerican

Found a copy

Have not read this one before thank you

a reply to: Saurus

You have to understand that we Masons see things differently to those who are not Masons. There is no 33° in Masonry, as the Past Master correctly stated - the 33° belongs to a completely different order called the Scottish Rite. Non-Masons struggle to draw the distinction, but for us Masons - it's a matter of fact - it's a separate Order - not Freemasonry. I cannot imagine that a Past Master would not know of the Scottish Rite - he's probably just being difficult (although, semantically, he is correct in saying there is no 33° in Freemasonry, so he is not lying.) I belong to the English equivalents of both the Scottish and York rites, but, like KSigMason, I am much more involved in the York Rite Degrees.

I do understand what you are saying but at the same time even your own structures show the 33rd Sovereign Grand Inspector General and Order of Knights Templar being at the top of the stepped pyramid both holding the famous Square & Compass with the 'G'.
For me the structure is a split that uses differing means to reach the same goal, Maybe the way the structure is shown gives us outsiders an impression of hierarchy as all the degree's are above the main 3. ( i do not use the word 'Above' as meaning better just higher )
I also notice there is 33rd ''Active'' & 33rd '' honourary. Am i correct in thinking there is only 1 Active per country and the rest are the latter?


sorry if i am being a pain.

Is it correct that the degree's beyond Master Mason do not have to be joined in order and can be taken in any order sometimes skipping some altogether ???

and is it correct that the 3 degree's come from the Hiram Abiff story of the building of Solomons Temple?, i have read at least 2 versions of this tale is there an official one per se ?

so many details bouncing around in my head, you guys are going to get so fed up with me

a reply to: sharkman

Thank you for your input
and i can understand the defensive behavior as i am sure many of you get fed up with accusations and people thinking they know more than yourselves about your own order.
I have been guilty of this myself at times, I just hope this thread puts some of that right and gives people some real insight into the Freemasons.

Could i be correct in saying

The Black and White floor represents the polarity and choices of life, I should imagine the Squares to be of equal amount signifying a balance of opposites. The fact it is underfoot could show that these extremity's are under control or one is above such extremes. It also shows a union of opposites to make the whole, a unity
The 2 primordial forces of creation

originally posted by: JokerThe1st

I do understand what you are saying but at the same time even your own structures show the 33rd Sovereign Grand Inspector General and Order of Knights Templar being at the top of the stepped pyramid both holding the famous Square & Compass with the 'G'.

In that diagram, KSigMason and I would both be the 'Order of Knights Templar' man standing in black with the sword at the top of that diagram, equivalent to the Scottish Rite 33° man. In fact, we are both Officers in that Degree. However, I am only doing my Knights of Malta Degree (a step below on that ladder) in August. Also, on that same ladder (same diagram), I am currently the head of the Holy Royal Arch, but I have not done the Mark Degree's 'Most Excellent Master' (a step below on that same ladder, as I elected not to join the Mark.

I also notice there is 33rd ''Active'' & 33rd '' honourary. Am i correct in thinking there is only 1 Active per country and the rest are the latter?

No. There are 5 active 33° Masons in my country and many, many honourary ones who have received the Degree for 'long service' to Masonry. They have all been through the exact same ritual.

sorry if i am being a pain.

Not at all. We Masons are on this forum because we enjoy discussing Freemasonry.

Is it correct that the degree's beyond Master Mason do not have to be joined in order and can be taken in any order sometimes skipping some altogether ???

To an extent. Within a particular Appendant Order, the Degrees are done in a particular order. For example, in the Order of the Secret Monitor, the Installation Degree must be done before the Prince's Degree. Similarly, in the Rose Croix, the 18th Degree must be done before the 30th. However, the York Rite consists of several Orders (ie. Royal Arch, Red Cross of Constantine etc.) which may be joined in any order.

However, in English Masonry, as you have already premised, the Holy Royal Arch must be done before joining any other Order in any Rite or appendant body. This is because English Masonry considers the Royal Arch to be the completion of the Third Degree. Furthermore, a Mason can no longer be the Master of an English Lodge if he has not done the Royal Arch Degree.

I must point out that I speak for English Masonry, and everything that I have mentioned above may vary from constitution to constitution.

and is it correct that the 3 degree's come from the Hiram Abiff story of the building of Solomons Temple?, i have read at least 2 versions of this tale is there an official one per se ?

The building of Solomon's Temple only really starts featuring in the Second Degree, and Hiram Abiff only makes a significant appearance in the 3rd.

a reply to: JokerThe1st

Excellent analysis! It is exactly those kinds of observations that set your path apart from many of your contemporaries and peers. The game is all about balance and discernment. There are many layers to all of the emblems and symbols, keep looking and keep asking questions.

As the other brothers have said, we like to share our enjoyment and knowledge and enthusiasm for masonry with others. It really is fun and educational for us too.

I like threads like yours. Your attitude is commendable.

originally posted by: colbe

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: colbe
ATS, you cannot be a Mason and be Roman Catholic.

Tell it to the guys in my lodge who are both Masons and Knights of Columbus. Even their Monsignor is aware.

Guess they really do not care anymore, what with membership of the Church dropping. Gotta keep every sinner you can find and keep the big, money making, Pope-lead, Ponzi scheme going.

AM,

Hi, pray for those guys. They do not know or ignore the teachings of the Faith. This is the point, Judas heard Our Lord for three years, He chose not to follow Jesus.

The Faith is not about money, Roman Catholicism concerns the fullness of God's revelation about who He is and His beautiful plan. The learning institutions, the hospitals, Catholic charities worldwide for 2000 years, yeah that money was ill-spent.

The Remnant is Roman Catholic. God is going to ask you personally to become Catholic "soon", maybe 2017, only God knows the moment of the "awakening." Been prophesied for a long time, means this divine revelation is closer.


love and blessings,

colbe

Wait you really think the Catholic Church isn't about money and is the only true church? If that were the case the Church wouldn't have nearly the amount of money they do, they wouldn't of had the sex abuse scandal, extremely expensive Churches, caused the death of a bunch of people due to the condom ban, and would of spent more time helping the victims instead of trying to save themselves. You seem to have posted a bunch of different prophecies in the past that haven't came true so what do you think God thinks about that? Just because you think the Catholic Church is the only true church doesn't make it true and let's not forget all non Catholics who are highly critical of your church. Sorry if I offended any Catholics on this site.

There is one symbol that drives me crazy (not really crazy)

The Eye of Providence

This symbol appears everywhere now days and has been speculated on greatly, if possible could i have a masons take on this one, if you are permitted to divulge such.

is the prevalence of this symbol everywhere by design ?

Also another question that begs is a lot of music and film industry appear to use masonic symbols for all sorts of scenes and tales, is this a deliberate action to try to raise generations through symbolism or do you think this is simply the industry jumping on the band wagon so to speak?

a reply to: JokerThe1st

Strange as it may seem, the Eye of Providence hardly features at all in Freemasonry. There are only one or two references to it in the whole of Masonry, and even then, no symbolism is explained - it's really only mentioned in a Prayer or two (for example, ...the all-seeing eye of God observers our actions...)"

The only place it is found within the Lodge is in the Holy Royal Arch Degree, on the top of the sceptre of Haggai, the prophet.

From the Royal Arch ritual, at the installation of Haggai: "Your Sceptre, bearing the "All-Seeing Eye" is an emblem of vigilance. It instructs you to stand as watchman on a tower, to guard the Companions, and admonish them to fidelity and industry."

That's about all there is in Freemasonry about the All-Seeying Eye.

Strange, but the general public's ideas of which symbols are important to Masonry are invariably wrong. They seem to go with those which are easiest to make conspiracy theories about, and assume they are the ones that matter.

originally posted by: JokerThe1st
The Eye of Providence

This symbol appears everywhere now days and has been speculated on greatly, if possible could i have a masons take on this one, if you are permitted to divulge such.

This is actually a Christian symbol and is used to represent the Eye of God and the Holy Trinity.

There is a thread on the first page of the top threads in this forum where we discussed this heavily. Let me see if I can track down which one it was.

originally posted by: JokerThe1st
There is one symbol that drives me crazy (not really crazy)

The Eye of Providence

This symbol appears everywhere now days and has been speculated on greatly, if possible could i have a masons take on this one, if you are permitted to divulge such.

is the prevalence of this symbol everywhere by design ?

Also another question that begs is a lot of music and film industry appear to use masonic symbols for all sorts of scenes and tales, is this a deliberate action to try to raise generations through symbolism or do you think this is simply the industry jumping on the band wagon so to speak?

As the brothers have already mentioned, this is very peripherally involved in Freemasonry. A more important symbol relates to the Euclidean 3-4-5. Now, that is important.

originally posted by: nancyliedersdeaddog

originally posted by: colbe

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: colbe
ATS, you cannot be a Mason and be Roman Catholic.

Tell it to the guys in my lodge who are both Masons and Knights of Columbus. Even their Monsignor is aware.

Guess they really do not care anymore, what with membership of the Church dropping. Gotta keep every sinner you can find and keep the big, money making, Pope-lead, Ponzi scheme going.

AM,

Hi, pray for those guys. They do not know or ignore the teachings of the Faith. This is the point, Judas heard Our Lord for three years, He chose not to follow Jesus.

The Faith is not about money, Roman Catholicism concerns the fullness of God's revelation about who He is and His beautiful plan. The learning institutions, the hospitals, Catholic charities worldwide for 2000 years, yeah that money was ill-spent.

The Remnant is Roman Catholic. God is going to ask you personally to become Catholic "soon", maybe 2017, only God knows the moment of the "awakening." Been prophesied for a long time, means this divine revelation is closer.


love and blessings,

colbe

Wait you really think the Catholic Church isn't about money and is the only true church? If that were the case the Church wouldn't have nearly the amount of money they do, they wouldn't of had the sex abuse scandal, extremely expensive Churches, caused the death of a bunch of people due to the condom ban, and would of spent more time helping the victims instead of trying to save themselves. You seem to have posted a bunch of different prophecies in the past that haven't came true so what do you think God thinks about that? Just because you think the Catholic Church is the only true church doesn't make it true and let's not forget all non Catholics who are highly critical of your church. Sorry if I offended any Catholics on this site.

How can I reply to your mostly negative? I do not want to hurt your feelings, I know 100% that God, the Blessed Trinity want you to become Roman Catholic one day. Keep this on your heart...

Nancy,

I do not know what happened? I answered everyone of your questions. Spooky. Only the first two sentences
showed up. ????

And I posted a

Guy's please, this thread is about freemasonry and not Catholicism, keep on topic please

( i have just received a comment delete in another thread for such but shhh)

a reply to: Krakatoa

A more important symbol relates to the Euclidean 3-4-5. Now, that is important.

I shall be looking into this shortly thank you

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

This is actually a Christian symbol and is used to represent the Eye of God and the Holy Trinity. There is a thread on the first page of the top threads in this forum where we discussed this heavily. Let me see if I can track down which one it was.

Yes please
And this would explain why this symbol has been seen in church's etc... (I have seen a lot of conspiracy's about this fact)

I am a little surprised it is not that involved with Freemasonry, but there appears to be a whole heap of misconceptions about Freemasonry, some of which i have and probably still harbor myself but anyhow on with the discussion.

a reply to: Saurus

From the Royal Arch ritual, at the installation of Haggai: "Your Sceptre, bearing the "All-Seeing Eye" is an emblem of vigilance. It instructs you to stand as watchman on a tower, to guard the Companions, and admonish them to fidelity and industry."

Very interesting thank you, I have read The Royal Arch ritual is one of the more impressive (not sure if that's the right word) rituals of Freemasonry.
said in another way it seems to be revered or spoken about with endearment almost. i hope that kind of made sense

a reply to: sharkman

Thank you
symbols hold a great amount of interest for me, They speak in volumes.

a reply to: JokerThe1st

I am fairly certain it is this Thread.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

shall have a read through